Potent pre cleansing soap solution for foam cannon

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Mike@DedicatedPerfection

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Whenever I need to prep a vehicle for work I will first pressure wash of the exterior to knock off any buildup of mud, dirt, leaves, salt, etc. My next step has been CarPro Iron-X Snow Soap via foam cannon to help strip the paint of any LSP that may be present. I let that dwell and then pressure wash it off and follow that up with a 2BM wash with a normal wash such as Meguiar's Hyper Wash.

I know claying, compounding, polishing, using an AIO will remove anything left of the surface from the owner. However I would really like to strip the paint naked as much as I can during the first foam cannon application.

What are you guys using as a pre cleansing solution for vehicles that come through? Or am I over thinking this?
 
I don't think you are over thinking at all...it happens to be my process as well. I use CG citrus 2oz in foam cannon.
 
I've been using CG Citrus wash also. I think they recommend 2oz/bucket for maintenance wash and higher conenctrations, 1oz/gal, to strip it clean.

I don't really measure though, I just give the bottle a good squeeze into the foam gun container lol. Sometimes I'll mix it with some other cheap car soap laying around
 
Messrs Tenblade2001, Adrian - CG's customer support led me to believe, CG's Citrus W/G was effective at stripping. It's not! In fact, chemically, nothing can strip, what works is the buffer & polish(s) corrective procedure.

See this thread's posts: 11, 13, 18, 19, 22, 23

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...7423-soaps-used-excess-can-degrade-lsp-2.html

Also note CG does not talk about this on the products "LABEL" nor its official literature on the product. This is strictly "OFF LABEL" claim by CG's support staff. If this were true, CG would not have overlooked this, in it's literature, so as to add another reason for purchasing. Also they list this product as "wax/sealant" safe. Currently CG has only one product (car wash soaps), not 'wax/sealant' safe. That would be the bug & tar shampoo.

I still have about a 1/3 bottle of Citrus W/G, & was ticked off, when finding out the truth about, wax & sealant removal. For me now it's wash normally, clay, polish last several times with M205. And I'm sure every smidgen of old is gone.
 
IMO:
If the quality-level of previously applied LSPs
were to be anywhere near worthy of their
weight-in-salt; then: the way to ensure
the paint has actually been "stripped naked"
of those previous LSPs, is by polishing.



Bob
 
Bob - True!!!!

But the miss information, spreads like wildfire example Citrus W/G 1oz/1gal. I felt cheated!
 
Mike IMO you are not overthinking this process. The fact that you are "questioning" your technique just tells me that you are looking for perfection (no pun intended). I too am always looking to get better at my detailing technique.

The bottom line is: I would rather take my ride to you any day and at anytime if I needed a detail. The reason is I would never have to worry about a less than perfect detail.

Happy New Year and as always you are a kick ass detailer!!
 
From what I read, soaps don't help remove any decent LSP, but I, and most others here, have no way to prove either side. So I like to assume worst case scenario when I'm unsure, so I say it doesn't strip the LSP.

Is the snow foam a chemical decontaminate remover, like regular Iron-X? I didn't think it was, (if it is, I doubt it's as strong) so I'd recommend adding that step to your washing method, as you said you're trying to remove as much as possible.

The only way I'd see the snow foam as overthinking, is if it doesn't remove more than what the hyperwash does right after. I've used snow soap before, and didn't notice a difference between that and my other soaps, other than it stinks like Iron-x.

With that, my order for filthy vehicles is (without getting into much detail) :

Power wash
2bm
Iron-x
Clay
correct/polish
LSP


It really comes down to what works for you.
 
I use the CG Citrus Red. As some have said it probably doesnt make the car naked but it seems to work ok for me. Im sure the Iron-X snow soap would do a fine job also. Stick with what has worked for you Mike, you seem to do some dang good work!!!!!!!!
 
Ricorocks said:
Messrs Tenblade2001, Adrian - CG's customer support led me to believe, CG's Citrus W/G was effective at stripping. It's not! In fact, chemically, nothing can strip, what works is the buffer & polish(s) corrective procedure.

See this thread's posts: 11, 13, 18, 19, 22, 23

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...7423-soaps-used-excess-can-degrade-lsp-2.html

Also note CG does not talk about this on the products "LABEL" nor its official literature on the product. This is strictly "OFF LABEL" claim by CG's support staff. If this were true, CG would not have overlooked this, in it's literature, so as to add another reason for purchasing. Also they list this product as "wax/sealant" safe. Currently CG has only one product (car wash soaps), not 'wax/sealant' safe. That would be the bug & tar shampoo.

I still have about a 1/3 bottle of Citrus W/G, & was ticked off, when finding out the truth about, wax & sealant removal. For me now it's wash normally, clay, polish last several times with M205. And I'm sure every smidgen of old is gone.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I didn't think it made any difference but once I run out of these CG soaps I'm going with Meguiar's Hyper Wash. Seem's like the most economical.
 
I believe PiPuk testing found, that after trying shampoos, then removing the, residual surfactants, from the shampoo, you still get beading. So it only appears that the LSP is gone. In order to chemically remove a very basic (Ph greater than 10) would be required for stripping, this would/could be harmful, to the paint.

An interesting experiment might be, for those with spare car parts would be testing

1. CG's bug/tar shampoo, stronger than label <theory soap is not LSP safe.

2. Wash with "Pad Cleaner" or varying amounts of.

insure sufactants are removed check for beading.
 
tenblade2001 said:
I don't think you are over thinking at all...it happens to be my process as well. I use CG citrus 2oz in foam cannon.
Click to expand...

EzyBrzy said:
I've been using CG Citrus wash also. I think they recommend 2oz/bucket for maintenance wash and higher conenctrations, 1oz/gal, to strip it clean.

I don't really measure though, I just give the bottle a good squeeze into the foam gun container lol. Sometimes I'll mix it with some other cheap car soap laying around
Click to expand...

Ricorocks said:
CG's customer support led me to believe, CG's Citrus W/G was effective at stripping. It's not! In fact, chemically, nothing can strip, what works is the buffer & polish(s) corrective procedure.
Click to expand...

Honestly I have looked into this one as I too have heard that it "can strip"

See this thread's posts: 11, 13, 18, 19, 22, 23

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...7423-soaps-used-excess-can-degrade-lsp-2.html
Click to expand...

Thanks for bringing that up. I have some reading to do.

Also note CG does not talk about this on the products "LABEL" nor its official literature on the product. This is strictly "OFF LABEL" claim by CG's support staff. If this were true, CG would not have overlooked this, in it's literature, so as to add another reason for purchasing. Also they list this product as "wax/sealant" safe. Currently CG has only one product (car wash soaps), not 'wax/sealant' safe. That would be the bug & tar shampoo.

I still have about a 1/3 bottle of Citrus W/G, & was ticked off, when finding out the truth about, wax & sealant removal. For me now it's wash normally, clay, polish last several times with M205. And I'm sure every smidgen of old is gone.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Another one of CG false claims.
 
FUNX650 said:
IMO:
If the quality-level of previously applied LSPs
were to be anywhere near worthy of their
weight-in-salt; then: the way to ensure
the paint has actually been "stripped naked"
of those previous LSPs, is by polishing.



Bob
Click to expand...

Whenever I read Bob's posts, I can't help but hear Yoda's voice in my head :laughing:
 
Ricorocks said:
Messrs Tenblade2001, Adrian - CG's customer support led me to believe, CG's Citrus W/G was effective at stripping. It's not! In fact, chemically, nothing can strip, what works is the buffer & polish(s) corrective procedure.

See this thread's posts: 11, 13, 18, 19, 22, 23

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...7423-soaps-used-excess-can-degrade-lsp-2.html

Also note CG does not talk about this on the products "LABEL" nor its official literature on the product. This is strictly "OFF LABEL" claim by CG's support staff. If this were true, CG would not have overlooked this, in it's literature, so as to add another reason for purchasing. Also they list this product as "wax/sealant" safe. Currently CG has only one product (car wash soaps), not 'wax/sealant' safe. That would be the bug & tar shampoo.

I still have about a 1/3 bottle of Citrus W/G, & was ticked off, when finding out the truth about, wax & sealant removal. For me now it's wash normally, clay, polish last several times with M205. And I'm sure every smidgen of old is gone.
Click to expand...

I have actually had several experiences with CWG actually stripping off the lsp. I use CWG nor maintenance and stripping and can absolutely tell the difference. For example, the last one I did was my dad's truck. It was just getting a wash, decon., seal and it had several layers of wax and sealant on it from the last few months. It had decent hydrophobic behavior still, but once I washed the car with CWG at 1oz/gal(it may have been stronger this time by just a smidgen)the water just clung to the paintwork in sheets. I even did some 50/50's where I washed one panel and not the next one to see the difference and it was very significant.

To the OP-the only other thing I use besides CWG at high concentrations is APC on the really nasty areas. Spray on, short dwell, hose off
 
ViperGuy21 said:
I have actually had several experiences with CWG actually stripping off the lsp.
Click to expand...

I'm not suggesting this didn't happen but you should look at that other thread that suggests that residue from the soap can also affect the beading giving the appearance that the LSP has been stripped.
 
I've referenced this several times before but here's a little test that Steve did, he also did another one prior. I believe what was found was that a strong acid will remove some very durable products, but not much else will strip including solvents & neat APC.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...ock-blackhole-wolfgang-dgps-blackfire-wd.html

I do a pre-foam soak with a combo of CG CW+G and Ultimate Snow Foam/Bilt Hamber Surfex HD. This does a great job of loosening stuff, and lesser waxes will be removed, but anything durable will still remain.

If I really want an existing LSP gone, I will utilize an abrasive method.
 
FUNX650 said:
IMO:
If the quality-level of previously applied LSPs
were to be anywhere near worthy of their
weight-in-salt; then: the way to ensure
the paint has actually been "stripped naked"
of those previous LSPs, is by polishing.


Bob
Click to expand...

True. However a proper foundation and application is key.

GEEKS know the importance of proper application such as a thorough wash and decontaminating the paint. As well as using a paint cleansing polish to get you back to fresh paint.

Cutting through or helping break up an LSP is a second feature worth having.

Average owners do not know these things and will apply any LSP whether it be of the spray type as most common to liquid and paste type products.

I like to use a dedicated prep cleansing solution first and foremost to help breakdown whatever is on the surface such as dirt, foreign contaminates, etc. I feel doing so helps mitigate the risk of dragging a wash mitt across the surface that may have an excess amount of contamination present.

Kamakaz1961 said:
Mike IMO you are not overthinking this process. The fact that you are "questioning" your technique just tells me that you are looking for perfection (no pun intended). I too am always looking to get better at my detailing technique.

The bottom line is: I would rather take my ride to you any day and at anytime if I needed a detail. The reason is I would never have to worry about a less than perfect detail.

Happy New Year and as always you are a kick ass detailer!!
Click to expand...

Thanks CJ. As mentioned above I want to get down to the basic foundation as quickly as I can.

I think a pre wash foam application of a stronger soap left to dwell will really help break up and cut through surface contamination and minimize wash induced marring a vehicle that was just foamed with a normal everyday soap.

Would love to take you up on that. :xyxthumbs:

KMdef9 said:
From what I read, soaps don't help remove any decent LSP, but I, and most others here, have no way to prove either side. So I like to assume worst case scenario when I'm unsure, so I say it doesn't strip the LSP.

Is the snow foam a chemical decontaminate remover, like regular Iron-X? I didn't think it was, (if it is, I doubt it's as strong) so I'd recommend adding that step to your washing method, as you said you're trying to remove as much as possible.

The only way I'd see the snow foam as overthinking, is if it doesn't remove more than what the hyperwash does right after. I've used snow soap before, and didn't notice a difference between that and my other soaps, other than it stinks like Iron-x.

With that, my order for filthy vehicles is (without getting into much detail) :

Power wash
2bm
Iron-x
Clay
correct/polish
LSP


It really comes down to what works for you.
Click to expand...

Thanks for chiming in.

Snow Foam claims it has degreaser built in to help cut through heavy road film.
CarPro Iron X Snow Soap, paint decontamination soap

More information can be found on its respective manufacturers website.


dcjredline said:
I use the CG Citrus Red. As some have said it probably doesnt make the car naked but it seems to work ok for me. Im sure the Iron-X snow soap would do a fine job also. Stick with what has worked for you Mike, you seem to do some dang good work!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

I did look into that product as well. My first use in a strong soap solution was Snow Foam and I am happy with its performance.

Thanks Don. :xyxthumbs:

Ricorocks said:
I believe PiPuk testing found, that after trying shampoos, then removing the, residual surfactants, from the shampoo, you still get beading. So it only appears that the LSP is gone. In order to chemically remove a very basic (Ph greater than 10) would be required for stripping, this would/could be harmful, to the paint.

An interesting experiment might be, for those with spare car parts would be testing

1. CG's bug/tar shampoo, stronger than label <theory soap is not LSP safe.

2. Wash with "Pad Cleaner" or varying amounts of.

insure sufactants are removed check for beading.
Click to expand...

Thank you for providing that information about his testing.

Will have to look into it. Would be interesting to hear his findings.

Maybe I can do some testing with CarPro Snow Foam.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
I'm not suggesting this didn't happen but you should look at that other thread that suggests that residue from the soap can also affect the beading giving the appearance that the LSP has been stripped.
Click to expand...

I see what you're saying now
 
The 'off label' usage, causes more usage of product benefiting seller. It's probably, well if they want to believe that, Okay, will just sell more.

I believe from the other post I mentioned, something like paint thinner, type of solvent is effective.

Oil based solvents "organic" remove, organic substances.
Non organic (water, or water soluble things), have very little effect on removing organic matter, like lsp's.

If I'm concerned, about "stripping" then for sure that will be followed by, clay & polish. After polish all traces of old LSP will be gone. Going to the bother of, some form of chemical stripping seems, wasteful & not necessary.
 
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