R.I.P. Twinkie

Anybody ever work for a unionized company? Let me tell you, it sucks. I've been on the management side - it's hard to be a successful business.



I've worked on both sides. There's no monopoly of "suckiness" on either side. A long time ago the managment was responsible, through their practices, for the formation of unions. Then for a while there was "harmony". Starting around the 70's, the unions began to get the upper hand, and tilted the balance in the wrong direction. Ultimately that led to outsourcing, moving facilities to lower labor cost areas (first south, then Mexico, then out of north america), where management has had the upper hand, with the leverage of offshoring. There is a balance to this that works, but it hasn't been balanced for a long time.

As KneeDragr notes above, it doesn't work if it's too far out of balance either way.

All IMO of course, and my "timeline" above is very simplified for narrative purposes.
 
I've been on both sides of this. I've seen management people promoted to their highest level of incompetence, and I've seen union people who were out to screw the company any way they could.

When union big-wigs complain about CEO compensation, they forget that they, themselves are earning a pretty decent package of wages and perks from the dues-paying members. No CEO deserves a sweetheart severance package for bankrupting a company.

Unions need to realize that a company has to make a profit to stay in business. Companies need to realize that they need the workers in order to make a profit. Government needs to realize that it cannot over-regulate and over-tax businesses, whether it is a multi-national company, or a self-employed person, such as a detailer.

Everybody needs to realize that ALL costs incurred by business is passed along to the consumer. Utilities, property taxes, wages, pensions, everything is in the price of what we buy.
 
Don't know much about unions - but my only experience with a union is when I was 22 working my TAIL off doing foundation repair for $10 an hour and the 2 guys standing over me doing hardly anything were making $25 an hour plus! Im sure Unions were needed and useful when created, but they may very well be outdated?!?!? Again, I say this with my limited knowledge of the union system.
 
Don't know much about unions - but my only experience with a union is when I was 22 working my TAIL off doing foundation repair for $10 an hour and the 2 guys standing over me doing hardly anything were making $25 an hour plus! Im sure Unions were needed and useful when created, but they may very well be outdated?!?!? Again, I say this with my limited knowledge of the union system.

Those type of trade unions (construction, pipefitters, HVAC, etc.) work very differently than a union like at Hostess in which all the employees are at fixed locations. I think for every anecdotal story like yours, there is an opposite one. As some other members have noted, I have worked in companies where the union wagged the dog, and others where the union dues were so high and the compensation and representation so low, the only way the employees knew there was a union was from the dues deducted from their paychecks.
 
Sooo sad. This one of my favorite snack cakes !!! I have 4 left in my pantry and went to my local Walmart yesterday when I was food shopping in the hopes of picking more up.

No go !! The entire shelf was cleared out :(:(
 
I can't believe nobody posted it yet...
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD5U4ivil_E]Twinkies are extinct. Zombieland is here! - YouTube[/video]


BTW it's funny to see all this union talk in the US, here in Brazil EVERYBODY, no exception is unionized......
You start a new job and all the sudden, in your pay check... "union contribution $$$$$ -"
 
If Twinkies (Hostess) makes a come-back, I hope they put the original banana-creme filling back in Twinkies. Evidently, the filling was banana-creme up until WWII. The story goes that bananas were in short supply, so they switched to the current filling, but when WWII ended, they left the filling as is.

Just thinking that the original banana-creme flavor would be the best of the two.
 
Just a curious question, but is this appropriate to be posting both political views, and views of american labor here in this forum?

IMO, this thread should be deleted.


A little confused why this would bother this member...The post was posted in the correct forum.


:haha::haha:
 
A little confused why this would bother this member...The post was posted in the correct forum.


:haha::haha:

Firstly, my apologies to you, and all.

And yes, I did get your PM, and it was rather rude IMO. I chose not to privately respond, but I'll respond here publicly.

Being a new member here, like you, I was unaware that such off topic forums permit such as political debates, and opinions. I belong to a number of other forums online, and commonly such is not permitted, even in their off topic forums.

It was starting to look like this topic was heading south, and might've turned into a pissing match about politics, and labor unions. It appears it hasn't, and I was not able to predict where this thread was going to go.

But as you can see, my post was basically the only one that was perhaps out of place. Why I should've concerned myself about what others write, I should've actually not even responded.

Today, it seems as if we all live in a country that has not been so divided since the civil war.
It seems like wherever I go, whomever I speak to, even my own family members have considerably opposing views, and topics such as religion, politics and such usually digress.

It does get old after awhile, and it was my mistake to not realize that virtually all folks here have a great deal of restraint, sensibility, and very good commaderie. Other forums are rarely like this.

Again my apoligies to all, you asked "who did I think I was, and was I some little kid?, and I'll answer that. I'm 58 next month, and in the realm of things here, I'm nobody.
Mark
 
I've been on both sides of the labor-management issue; there are no easy answers on a lot of concerns but common sense and compromise seems to have taken a back seat here (at Hostess) as it does anywhere whenever emotions and stubbornness become involved. Bottom line: everyone loses.
 
Anybody ever work for a unionized company? Let me tell you, it sucks. I've been on the management side - it's hard to be a successful business.
My belief is that: "it sucks" for RTW employees in an Open-Shop are allowed the same benefits/rights
under a Collective Bargaining Agreement as those who pay Union Dues in that Open Shop.
That's me.

Now...Are you basing: "it sucks"...from the wind being knocked out of your sails because...
(Among many other items):

-You had to go through extensive training from your Company's HR/PR folks to fully comprehend that,
even though your Company is in a RTW State:

-From an employer's/management's perspective. the RTW employees probably are putting you in an
awkward position and have created extra work dealing with the new special-rules for the now special-people...
Because:

1.) No longer are/were the employees directly within anyones’ managerial jurisdiction to be treated as:
.......At-Will Employees.......
2.) A Collective Bargaining Agreement---with its included Shop Rules...Is applicable to:
3.) All employees, whether they were dues-paying Union members or not, and are now entitled to equal
representation through the: Union-Company Grievance Procedure
[also applicable to the Company grieving the Union: Company-Union Grievance Procedure]
4.) Unless memorized...The carrying of a laminated copy of the Wagner Act upon your person
(wallet/pocket-protector) was now advisable
5.) Management was now forced to comply with posting Federal Laws governing things like the NLRA, Taft-Hartley
(and/or its exemptions), Safety&Health, many others...for RTW employees and card-carrying Union members as well...
On Company supplied bulletin boards

NOTE: This applies to any Company that has entered into a Collective Bargaining Agreement with a Union…
Open or Closed Shop.

To Wit:

Notice to Employees:

"Under Federal law, employees cannot be required to join a union or maintain membership in a union in order to retain their jobs.
Under certain conditions, the law permits a union and an employer to enter into a union-security agreement requiring employees
to pay uniform periodic dues and initiation fees. However, employees who are not Union members can object to the use of
their payments for certain purposes and can only be required to pay their share of union costs relating to collective bargaining,
contract administration, and grievance adjustment.

If you do not want to pay that portion of dues or fees used to support activities not related to collective bargaining,
contract administration, or grievance adjustment, you are entitled to an appropriate reduction in your payment.
If you believe that you have been required to pay dues or fees used in part to support activities not related to collective bargaining,
contract administration, or grievance adjustment, you may be entitled to a refund and to an appropriate reduction in future payments.

For further information concerning your rights, you may wish to contact the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB)
either at one of its Regional offices or at the following address or toll free number:

National Labor Relations Board Division of Information 1099 14th Street, N.W. Washington, DC 20570
1-866-667-6572 1-866-316-6572 (TTY)

To locate the nearest NLRB office, see NLRB's website."



-For the record…I also believe that if a person objects for political, religious, or personal reasons,
to any Union monies being spent except for the purpose of collective bargaining,
contract administration, or grievance adjustment...
They have the right to a refund of that portion of their dues, not so spent.

-I also believe that it's an unfair practice of how managers/management has had the explicit right,
of how their Company spends its monies, seemingly: Taken away.

:)

Bob
 
Fun Amen, if you look into Hostess going out of business, the Teamsters voted to take concessions even though upper managment refused and took their high salaries up until last week when they closed the doors, the rest of the story....The BTC had enough of the lies and bullshit and voted no more, poor managment decisions, pay cuts for only hourly employees and Mid managment, etc.

I hope you anti Union idiots enjoy your weekends and Overtime after 8 hours and 40 hours, OSHA etc, etc... Unions made it possible for you.

R
 
for the record...

fb_hostess_timeline_FINAL_imagelarge.png


Hostess' Pattern of Mismanagement and Debt Caused Its Collapse
 
Always thought Hostess was pretty nasty. Now, if TastyKake was going away - that would be a tragedy. I know TastyKake is only available around Philadelphia, but they truly blow Hostess away.

usy2esuh.jpg


Anyone going through Twinkie withdrawal who has access to Tasty Klairs I suggest them highly. In fact, think ill head to Wawa and get one myself.
 
A couple of things to clearify. Unoins DO NOT represent a non union member as thoroughly as they do a union member. I've been told this by a shop steward and local president. Also the teamsters agreed to concessions from the company,it was the bakers,millworker union that chose to stike even though their union had been advsised by the teamsters to accept the deal. 3000 union memebers put 18,500 workers on the unemployment line and I do agree that upper management definately messed up big time. This is an unfortunate example when neither the union or upper management realizing that without the company none of them have jobs.
 

This time-line shows, to me, that the company wasn't viable. But maybe its recipes will flourish if bought by a different company (with the current health obssession, I doubt...Prohibition - there's a thought for California legislators!).

One thing is sure: if the US proceed with its deindustrialization, it won't have a bright future.

Final remark: seeing Bain cited several times tells me why Romney lost the election...
 
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