Reason I won't use a coating again

[zmcgovern45]

And pay for it? Every 6 months $800- $1500 to have it reapplied? That's the going rate for them around here. I think the dealership coatings are garbage and a waste of money. They probably have some high school kids applying them. It's all about commission and making money on the customer.

The last customer I had with the deposits had a brand new white Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited. He paid $1200 and was guaranteed no maintenance by him or dealership for 5 years. When he went in and showed then the orange spots they quickly said they don't cover that..... It's a sham to get your money.

No, in order to maintain the warranty, many of those programs require routine maintenance services that are usually included in the warranty program as far as I know... however most owners will not follow up with these, and therefore the warranty no longer applies.

As far as application, you're correct. I have talked to a few people who used to apply the Simoniz treatment to new cars at a couple local dealerships and the prep work was non-existent. I was even told that sometimes they would wax the car before applying Simoniz to make it shinier... yes, you read that right.

The reality is that it is easy to sell something to someone for "just $2 more on your monthly payment" and they will never think about it again. Most people will never follow up on warranty claims because they don't even know what the protection is supposed to do in the first place. Just taking advantage of uneducated car owners.... the 1% of car owners who want real products, real service, and real answers will seek out a true detailer for new car prep and protection.

 

[GSKR]

Yeah, but...those dealership "coatings" are usually just a sealant and some fine print that you have to bring the vehicle back every 6 months or a year to essentially have the "coating" reapplied, in order to maintain the "5-year" guarantee.

They push that to cover the cost of washing new car owners purchase for its long as they have it.Everycar that gets worked on as you know gets washed when it's repaired at a moderate busy dealer your talking 30 cars per day.its just a revenue stream for a dealer to bury the cost,the product is junk and for 7 bucks a month people will sign.

 

[Kamakaz1961]

I have used a coating and IMO it is a great product (Polish Angel). That being said, I went back to the sealant/wax method. IMO it is easier to correct if something goes wrong on your ride.

If both methods are used correctly, your ride looks awesome!! Only the nit pickers (me) can tell a slight difference! But still looks great!

Additionally, I enjoy the sealant/wax method as I enjoy detailing my ride. Great Stress relief.

 

[FUNX650]

When you say that the iron deposits are forming on the paint, do you mean that they penetrated the coating and therefore you have no more protection in that specific spot from it? If it went through to the paint, then yes that would seem like a waste. But at the end of the day if it's just stopping at the coating, it seems to be doing it's job. To me a coating is a longer lasting sacrificial layer than what a sealant or wax will provide IMO.

Hypothesis:

Is a Coating's/(sacrificial barrier's) ability
to ward-off iron deposits (and possibly
other contaminates, as well) from reaching
the underlying paint inversely proportional
to the thickness of said contaminates?

************************************

I've seen where it's been stated that
Coatings are anywhere from only ~0.5
microns to ~1.5-2.0 microns thick.

(To me)...It would then seem that:
The thickness of the iron deposits would
be a good starting point to determine if
they would have a chance of penetrating
Coatings. That...and how "hot" they are
when they first make contact with the
Coating; and/or even how "hot" they may
become henceforward...IMO.



Bob

 

[rwright]

Perhaps you notice the contamination more easily after perfecting the paint? That's the downside to our obsession in reality.

 

[glfnaz]

A coating layer is ~1-2 micron thick........ unless you've got some pretty ridiculous equipment I don't see how anyone could determine where the paint ends, coating begins, and coating ends.... but perhaps that is a topic for another thread.

This is an excellant graphic, thanks for sharing it. Now a question: How thick is a typical sealant? Is it less than the 1-2 Micron of coatings? Lastly, how many microns is the CC and BC?
(Just wanting to put the facts into perspective) Thanks in advance

 

[zmcgovern45]

...and how "hot" they are
when they first make contact with the
Coating

I have a hard time imagining that a tiny metal particle that has been airborne for some period of time has a temperature that much greater than the ambient due to the convective heat transfer.

I did not see if the OP mentions exactly what coating he used, but many manufacturers state their coatings are resistant to "high temperatures" FWIW.

 

[zmcgovern45]

This is an excellant graphic, thanks for sharing it. Now a question: How thick is a typical sealant? Is it less than the 1-2 Micron of coatings? Lastly, how many microns is the CC and BC?
(Just wanting to put the facts into perspective) Thanks in advance

I do not believe anyone (manufacturers) has been able to successfully measure the thickness of a sealant... coatings often boast a "measurable thickness" because there is relatively inexpensive instrumentation that can detect the addition of a coating layer.

Base coat and clear coat thicknesses will vary, but in general it is safe to say that the entire paint system (primer, base coat, clear coat) is quite thin on most vehicles. We use our paint thickness gauge to measure total film thickness on every vehicle, and over the years we have found newer cars tend to be in the low 100 micron range (again this includes primer, base and clear coats). Some are lower (as seen in the images above), some are higher.

Detailers with more advanced ultrasonic gauges can theoretically measure the thickness of individual layers.

I believe Mike Phillips has some articles floating around on here that discuss paint thickness in greater detail

 

[Eldorado2k]

Good luck brother! What coating did you go with?

Mckee's 37


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RaskyR1]

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

You wouldn't happen to work in MN would you? Someone in my office complex has a car exactly like yours and it's always super clean and they park in an end spot every day.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

This is an excellant graphic, thanks for sharing it. Now a question: How thick is a typical sealant? Is it less than the 1-2 Micron of coatings? Lastly, how many microns is the CC and BC?
(Just wanting to put the facts into perspective) Thanks in advance

Ha ha...I believe only the pro-only coatings get into the 1-2 micron range, so that would slot retail coatings at the .5 microns that Bob mentioned. I'm quite sure that a sealant/wax layer after buff-off is much less than .1 microns...I think if you search hard enough at Autopia you will find a thread with a link to a foreign forum where someone used an electron microscope to measure the thickness of various LSP's.

Edit: Found it for you--post #5 http://www.autopia.org/forums/car-detailing/157016-insight-layering-wax.html

 

[RaskyR1]

I do not believe anyone (manufacturers) has been able to successfully measure the thickness of a sealant... coatings often boast a "measurable thickness" because there is relatively inexpensive instrumentation that can detect the addition of a coating layer.

Base coat and clear coat thicknesses will vary, but in general it is safe to say that the entire paint system (primer, base coat, clear coat) is quite thin on most vehicles. We use our paint thickness gauge to measure total film thickness on every vehicle, and over the years we have found newer cars tend to be in the low 100 micron range (again this includes primer, base and clear coats). Some are lower (as seen in the images above), some are higher.

Detailers with more advanced ultrasonic gauges can theoretically measure the thickness of individual layers.

I believe Mike Phillips has some articles floating around on here that discuss paint thickness in greater detail

Have you been able to measure a change in thickness after a coating is applied? I applied a coating to a calibration shim back in the day and it didn't register a difference...

There is a primer polish out there that says it can add up to 5-10 microns in thickness, which I need to test one of these days.

 

[FUNX650]

I have a hard time imaging that a tiny metal particle that has been airborne for some period of time has a temperature that much greater than the ambient due to the convective heat transfer.

Brake dust is not always "airborne for
some period of time". Imagine that.

And then there is the Sun:
Shouldn't its heating affect on
already stuck on iron deposits
be factored in?

I did not see if the OP mentions exactly what coating he used, but many manufacturers state their coatings are resistant to "high temperatures" FWIW.

Hope it isn't the same manufacturers
you mentioned here:

Believe it or not this really isn't a major benefit despite what many coatings will claim and what people tend to believe. Coatings will develop swirls and scratches in about the same fashion as an uncoated car if proper care is not used when cleaning them.

Bob

 

[zmcgovern45]

Brake dust is not always "airborne for
some period of time". Imagine that.

Please explain how the particles (which may or may not be from brake dust) come to land on the OP's paint as he had showed.

ope it isn't the same manufacturers you mentioned here:

Indeed it is

 

[Jeremy1976]

The particles that come off of your brakes are indeed very hot. Its mainly on the wheel wells (quarter panel) areas. Along with rocker panels and back bumper.

I am very confident that the contrast in temperature from the brake particles versus the painted panels is allowing these particles to easily bond. I never see this in the warm month's. 2 weeks into winter and cold temps, snow, road salt, and its there. I am meticulous with my vehicles and paint was 100%.

 

[FUNX650]

Please explain how the particles
(which may or may not be from
brake dust) come to land on the
OP's paint as he had showed.

I was under the impression that
the particles had landed on...and
then became noticeably stuck to...
the Coating that the OP had applied
on top of the paint.

Please explain how that happens.

{I sure hope it's not because the
vehicle has a White paint scheme.)


Bob

 

[Jeremy1976]

The coating applied was the Garry Dean Infinite Force Field kit.

 

[zmcgovern45]

I was under the impression that
the particles had landed on...and
then became noticeably stuck to...
the Coating that the OP had applied
on top of the paint.

Right, but you had mentioned the particles in question (if they were a result of brake dust) were not necessarily airborne... hence my confusion as to how they had settled on the paint to begin with and my asking for a more clear explanation as to what you were getting at.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

The coating applied was the Garry Dean Infinite Force Field kit.

Oh. I don't see that kit, or anything called that, but if you are talking about the Infinite Diamond Shield...just looking at the directions where it says apply a section at a time but don't have to go back to buff off the residue until after the entire car is "coated", would sensibly put this product into a different category than the pro-only coatings, or the other common retail coatings such as Gloss-Coat, CQuartz, or even the DG coating, where if you don't remove a high spot immediately, it's there for good (until you polish it off). Sounds a lot like Sonus Ion.

 

[zmcgovern45]

The coating applied was the Garry Dean Infinite Force Field kit.

Never heard of it... can't find it on his website... curious how you arrived at that product with all the other tried and tested options currently available?