Repainted panel- what in the world.

StuDLei

StuDLei

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Car-04 Nissan 350Z (black).

Last night I was bringing the paint back to its maximum potential. Most of the panels received SF 4500 on a black pad. It worked flawlessly. My rear quarter is repainted and it looked awesome too, until I used Carpro eraser. Swirls galore.

Tonight the same thing happened. I was polishing the door on the other side of the car. I used 205 on an orange lc pad and SF 4500 on a black pad. It looked flawless even after thoroughly wiping it down twice. When I was completely done with the front quarter and the door I hit all areas with Carpro Eraser. My front quarter panel looked flawless still but my door is full of swirls. Swirls that I believed were caused by my polishing. They look very distinct, however, they're not tick marks. It's not haze. It looks to be relatively deep swirls. Then it dawned on me that door panel had also been repainted (by the same shop for a different incident).

SO, apparently the panels on my car that have been repainted are very finicky. I'm at a loss of what to do though.

The only thing that I can think of is that I'm causing these swirls with orange and 205 and black and sf4500 can't take them out. I have white and green pads as well. What do you guys think I should do? I did use 205 and orange on the rear quarter panel I mentioned earlier too. After the Eraser wipedown I was appalled. I can't believe that they could be filled in that well with sf4500.

Anyone have any thoughts here? Almost half my car has been repainted over the years. The paint matches perfectly, I have absolutely never noticed a difference whatsoever (minus polishing that is). It's all been bad luck too. My bro in law dropped a car seat that was hanging over my car in his garage once and a lady driving a snowplow backed up into once too. I wasn't even in the car either time, lol. Anyways, not important. Any ideas here?
 
I would have tried something else tonight, but it was getting too late to be outside polishing. I'll probably try white and 205 next, but man, I don't have a lot of faith at this point. I guess I'm hoping someone can offer me some until the next day or two when I can try something else.
 
Most repaints, the clear tends do be on the softer side. PITA to work with.
 
FivePoint.0 said:
Most repaints, the clear tends do be on the softer side. PITA to work with.
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You would think if it was so soft that black with sf4500 would do the trick though no?

Someone else in another thread suggested that maybe the swirls were there to begin with and I just never got them out. I'll do some more testing in the next couple days. I'm pretty anxious to see if I can find something to work though, it's bugging me.
 
The swirls may have always been there especially if you have never removed polishing oils.

IMO the black pad is too soft to remove swirls w/SF4500 unless the paint is crazy soft.

You really need to do a test spot on the problem panel. M205 LC White pad should do the trick. You can vary the pads and polishes.

Unless compounding you shouldn't have to go for a more aggressive pad than a white polishing pad to remove swirls.
 
rmagnus said:
The swirls may have always been there especially if you have never removed polishing oils.

IMO the black pad is too soft to remove swirls w/SF4500 unless the paint is crazy soft.

You really need to do a test spot on the problem panel. M205 LC White pad should do the trick. You can vary the pads and polishes.

Unless compounding you shouldn't have to go for a more aggressive pad than a white polishing pad to remove swirls.
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4500 was enough to rid the paint of minor water spots and super fine swirls on other panels of my car, just for the record. It was pretty surprising to myself.

If there swirls were in fact there already then a white pad with 205 probably isn't going to work since I used 205 and orange already. Part of the panel that hasn't been done yet is all swirled up, but it looks different.. It's hard to explain. I think I'm going to try 205 on white like you said and just see what happens. If that doesn't work, I'm going to compound with 105 and orange. I'll make sure to use Eraser to check my work. FWIW, I did use Eraser on my test spot when I first started, but it was the hood which hasn't been repainted. The fact that some panels were repainted didn't cross my mind right away.
 
StuDLei said:
4500 was enough to rid the paint of minor water spots and super fine swirls on other panels of my car, just for the record. It was pretty surprising to myself.

If there swirls were in fact there already then a white pad with 205 probably isn't going to work since I used 205 and orange already. Part of the panel that hasn't been done yet is all swirled up, but it looks different.. It's hard to explain. I think I'm going to try 205 on white like you said and just see what happens. If that doesn't work, I'm going to compound with 105 and orange. I'll make sure to use Eraser to check my work. FWIW, I did use Eraser on my test spot when I first started, but it was the hood which hasn't been repainted. The fact that some panels were repainted didn't cross my mind right away.
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Yea I was thinking the orange pad could have caused the swirls. Did you clay first before polishing? Are your pads clean? What polisher are you using?

M205 leaves a fair amount of oils if not overworked so do an IPA/eraser wipe in straight lines vs circles to remove one of the variables.

If you feel compound is necessary try it with a white polishing pad. I've had great success with M205 and a yellow or orange cutting pad. It's less aggressive than going to the M105 compound. M105 is going to leave micro maring on soft paint.

I've always addressed swirls and water spots with polish and bigger defects like scratches/etchings with compound. Once you get it figured out keep some notes on what worked since you'll be using at least two different processes.

Most wouldn't consider a repainted panel when detailing a customers car. This is why a pre inspection form is good to use. I'd rather note damages like burn thrus, thin edges and special circumstances before starting the work. I find it covers 90% of the issues.

Any chance you can post a picture?
 
rmagnus said:
Yea I was thinking the orange pad could have caused the swirls. Did you clay first before polishing? Are your pads clean? What polisher are you using?

M205 leaves a fair amount of oils if not overworked so do an IPA/eraser wipe in straight lines vs circles to remove one of the variables.

If you feel compound is necessary try it with a white polishing pad. I've had great success with M205 and a yellow or orange cutting pad. It's less aggressive than going to the M105 compound. M105 is going to leave micro maring on soft paint.

I've always addressed swirls and water spots with polish and bigger defects like scratches/etchings with compound. Once you get it figured out keep some notes on what worked since you'll be using at least two different processes.

Most wouldn't consider a repainted panel when detailing a customers car. This is why a pre inspection form is good to use. I'd rather note damages like burn thrus, thin edges and special circumstances before starting the work. I find it covers 90% of the issues.

Any chance you can post a picture?
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Yes sir, I clayed a few weeks ago, but I wash my car probably three times a week (ONR). I'm constantly out there toying with things. It really didn't need clayed that bad when I did clay it.

Pads are clean. I mean they worked fine on other panels. I use a pad conditioning brush after every section too.

Maybe I'll try compound with the white pad first. I've had great luck with orange and 205 as well. It gives you more bite but still let's you finish out nice, depending on the specific car's paint you're working on of course.

My wife's camera is dead and we can't find the cord to recharge it. It's not the best camera and I'm not the best photographer either. Sorry man, I know everyone loves pics, myself included.

I might get a chance to try something tonight. If so, I'll update afterwards.
 
I'm at my wits end.

Seriously.

Today-

Tried white/205. Then 105/orange followed by 205/white then sf4500/black. Then again 205/black. I'm using a Flex. I erasered every time. The swirls are still there. I don't even know how to explain it. I'm REALLY starting to wonder if my bodyshop put in "fake" swirls when the painted the panels, because I'm sure my car was swirled as heck six years ago when I had this work done. I wasn't in to detailing then at all. I probably waxed my car once or twice the few years before that with OTC stuff.

Has anyone ever heard such a thing? Thing is, they matched the solvent pop somehow, so why couldn't they match the swirls too?

Nothing makes sense here and I'm about to go nuts!!

I don't have the slightest clue what to do at this point.

When I was using 105, there was some left over residue towards the bottom of my work area. When I wiped that up, it left a haze so "thick" it was unreal. Makes me think the paint is super soft. I wiped off in one direction as best I could occasionally and it didn't matter, the swirls were still typical swirls, not going in one direction.

Tomorrow I'm off. I'll try again I suppose.
 
I worked the hell out of each product every section I attempted as well. Work area was very small.

There is something about these repainted panels that I just don't get.

Is 205 SMAT? Does a black pad have any cut at all?
 
StuDLei said:
I worked the hell out of each product every section I attempted as well. Work area was very small.

There is something about these repainted panels that I just don't get.

Is 205 SMAT? YES Does a black pad have any cut at all? USUALLY NO
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Okay let's get back to basics and kick some paint in the a$$.

What Flex do you have?
Do you have additional polishers, PC GG etc?
What pads do you have? Wool? Micro fiber pads?
What size pads are you using?
What speed are you polishing at?
What panels are causing the problem?
Do you have a paint guage?
Do you have Meg#9 Swirl Remover?
Confirming your products M105, M205, Menz4500.
Do you have shade to work in? What's the temperature of the area you're working in?

Sorry for all the Qs but I'm going to try and give you a game plan. I know you know not to buff the polish dry as polish should still be wet when removed. I'm a little concerned with all the buffing you've done and using compounds like M105. Last ing you want to do is buff throughg the clear.

I've been using. Flex 3401 heavily for the past year but still like my rotaries. IMO the 3401 is one of the best polishes out on the market.
 
Man i know exactly how you feel. My rear bumper and right back quarter panel are repainted with crazy soft paint. Ive given up on trying to fix it. Like you i have tried all sorts of combinations to no avail. Your situation is EXACTLY like mine almost 100%
 
rmagnus said:
Okay let's get back to basics and kick some paint in the a$$.

What Flex do you have?
Do you have additional polishers, PC GG etc?
What pads do you have? Wool? Micro fiber pads?
What size pads are you using?
What speed are you polishing at?
What panels are causing the problem?
Do you have a paint guage?
Do you have Meg#9 Swirl Remover?
Confirming your products M105, M205, Menz4500.
Do you have shade to work in? What's the temperature of the area you're working in?

Sorry for all the Qs but I'm going to try and give you a game plan. I know you know not to buff the polish dry as polish should still be wet when removed. I'm a little concerned with all the buffing you've done and using compounds like M105. Last ing you want to do is buff throughg the clear.

I've been using. Flex 3401 heavily for the past year but still like my rotaries. IMO the 3401 is one of the best polishes out on the market.
Click to expand...

No problem with the questions... here goes:

I have the Flex 3401, it's the only polisher I have.
6.5 pads, only size I have but I have pretty much all of the lc pads with the pockets in them.

I do not have wool or mf pads.

My Flex is a little funny, so I can't tell you what speed I'm working at. Search my threads and you'll see what I'm talking about. It fluctuates. I think there is something wrong with the speed dial. If I put it on 6 it holds pretty steady at that speed though, maybe drops to the equivalent of 4 or 5 sometimes, but usually it maintains a speed of 6 or close thereto. I usually work at 6 with firm pressure.

The panels I'm having problems with are the drivers side door, rear passenger quarter panel. Both are repaints.

I do not have a paint gauge, but since they're repaints they should have enough clear to work with. Should.

I only have 105, 205 and the Menz 4500.

I work in the garage in the shade. It's hasn't been that warm lately, maybe 80 in the garage?

I'm tellin ya there is something up with this paint! I mean shouldn't my process of 105 orange, 205 white and 4500 black cleared up just about anything? Or at least made a difference?

Thanks for your ears man.
 
BlackHawk said:
Man i know exactly how you feel. My rear bumper and right back quarter panel are repainted with crazy soft paint. Ive given up on trying to fix it. Like you i have tried all sorts of combinations to no avail. Your situation is EXACTLY like mine almost 100%
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It's so weird. If I polish with the Menz, it looks perfect until I hit it with heavy doses of Eraser. You really have to manipulate the light, but when you do, the swirls are pretty awful. So odd. I might try a freaking red or gold pad tomorrow and see what happens. I doubt it will do anything, but I just don't get it.
 
StuDLei said:
No problem with the questions... here goes:

I have the Flex 3401, it's the only polisher I have.
6.5 pads, only size I have but I have pretty much all of the lc pads with the pockets in them.

I do not have wool or mf pads.

My Flex is a little funny, so I can't tell you what speed I'm working at. Search my threads and you'll see what I'm talking about. It fluctuates. I think there is something wrong with the speed dial. If I put it on 6 it holds pretty steady at that speed though, maybe drops to the equivalent of 4 or 5 sometimes, but usually it maintains a speed of 6 or close thereto. I usually work at 6 with firm pressure.

The panels I'm having problems with are the drivers side door, rear passenger quarter panel. Both are repaints.

I do not have a paint gauge, but since they're repaints they should have enough clear to work with. Should.

I only have 105, 205 and the Menz 4500.

I work in the garage in the shade. It's hasn't been that warm lately, maybe 80 in the garage?

I'm tellin ya there is something up with this paint! I mean shouldn't my process of 105 orange, 205 white and 4500 black cleared up just about anything? Or at least made a difference?

Thanks for your ears man.
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Sounds like you have Lake Country CCS pads. I like them but feel the LC Hydros work a little better and for the Flex they seem a bit more popular but the CCS will work fine.

Do a baggie test and reclay if necessary. I always clay before polishing. Rather be safe than sorry.

Speed 4-5 is about ideal. The speed triggers on all polishers take a beating and are usually the first to go. Make sure it's not your extension cord.

I believe your repainted panels are very soft. Try the Menz 4500 on a white CCS pad. Only do a test area 16x16". Shoot for 6 section passes if the polish will stay wet. First 2 medium pressure then lighten up on the last 4. Wipe and evaluate.

Try another with the black CCS pad same process.

If you have to cut back on the section passes do so. You should be able to get at least 4 but hopefully 6 will work. Also don't over do the product. Prime the pad and use 3 pea size dots of working product.

Move the polisher about 1" per second. Keep pads very clean. Focus on keeping the pads flat.
 
Menz 4500 never goes dry. Have you ever used it? I usually end up doing at least 8 passes with the stuff.

What's up with the white pads? They're so much firmer than any other pad, even orange. I've always wondered this.

In any case, I'll try what you say tomorrow just for giggles. Thanks man.
 
Is it possible the defects you're seeing are cracks in the paint?

I've seen this before, kind of looks like scratches but it's "in" the paint and you can't buff it out.

Here's what I would do, it's called troubleshooting.

Place a tape-line on an affected panel and then buff on just one side of it. Wipe off the residue and inspect the surface to see if you "changed it".

You should see a difference, either better, worse or the same. If it's the same, then the problem is under the surface or throughout the entire matrix of the clearcoat.


:)
 
One question , when the car has been repainted , some paints have a curing time of 3 months , as my ride required .
 
StuDLei said:
Menz 4500 never goes dry. Have you ever used it? I usually end up doing at least 8 passes with the stuff.

What's up with the white pads? They're so much firmer than any other pad, even orange. I've always wondered this.

In any case, I'll try what you say tomorrow just for giggles. Thanks man.
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No I have not used Menz 4500 but others swear by it on soft paint. Guess I've been lucky to have M205 solve all my problems, at least those that are paint related, lol. I haven't found much density difference between the white and orange CCS pads.

Personally I've used the yellow cutting pad more than the orange pads followed by white polishing pads then black for wax. The red and black seem almost identical to me and I do some light polishing with them but never expect defect removal from the process.

I've been using the Hydro pads on the Flex about 80% of the time. The CC Hex pads work well for me also but nothing wrong with the CCS pads.

I like what Mike suggested to run a tape line inside your test spot. That makes a lot of sense. Again make sure you don't use too much product on the pad you want the pad to do the work.

As a last ditch effort I'd go to the extreme get a wool pad on the Flex and M105 (since you have that). The LC blue wool pad or a black Tuff Buff wool pad. If that doesn't remove the swirls and defects than they aren't comming out with polish so you'll have to wet sand or just make it look as good as possible and move on.
 
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