Rupes LHR 15ES vs GG6

[MarkD51]

Wow, you guys are harsh. MODS, please delete this thread. Objectivity is pointless. My intentions were stated and obviously ignored. Thanks for not listening. Thanks for not listening to my original intentions.

Innuendo, and a somewhat seeming negative tone happens on the very rare occasion here, and like you, and about with the same amount of posts you have under your belt, I too felt belittled in a couple of threads I initiated due to some less than favorable comments about a couple of products.

And if I remember correctly, those threads were then closed. I feel that when such happens for such minor little hiccups, there's that possibility that further good information may be then lost. Of course, there's always the chance that another thread may begin, with better constructiveness.

One variable, and a seeming common thought, is that the end user is at fault, and this might not always be the case. That it is not at times an impossibility to get a sub-standard product. And a variability of what works well for one application, or for some people may not always be the exact same for another.

I hope that some of my comments, and insights/brain farts were useful here.
Mark

 

[CM8 6MT]

To clarify, the RUPES is not the end all to polishing. It WILL bog down on some panels, there's just no way around it. I don't care who you are. However, when used correctly on sufficient panels, it's AMAZING! I actually prefer the Flex 3401 and it's forced rotation because it will never bog! However, it's not as easy to control as the Rupes.


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100% agree, well said.

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

100% agree, well said.

rops:


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[Willy Wang]

The GG operates under brute force, or displacement if you will. Rupes uses better engineering (throw) to compensate/surpass the competition. My go to analogy is GG = high displacement v8, Rupes = straight 6 TT... 25psi? )))

 

[swanicyouth]

I'm not saying the Rupes is better, even though it cost more. Will spending $200 more give me $200 more of a better polish? Not $200 more for sure IMO. What can qualify one polisher is better based on price? There are clones sold at 1/3 the cost of the Rupes that can discredit the $200 price increase over the GG6 that offer the same performance on paper as the Rupes, but that is another story that warrants another thread and not this one.

What I am saying is my technique using the GG6 is flawed compared to the Rupes (re-read my first post). Especially on vertical panels, I was not applying enough pressure on the GG6 compared to the Rupes (which I believe I used the same downforce).

I think the Rupes is less forgiving on the technique used compared to the GG6. I believe the larger throw on the Rupes helps to give better correction using less downforce on vertical panels giving me better results and a glossier finish (based on my flawed technique of polishing). This is the basis of this thread.

The thing about the Rupes I like is it's just easier to operate. I hate leaning over the middle of a hood or roof and having to hold the polisher down with a lot of force in the middle of the hood or roof. It hurts my back to do that for minutes at a time. I've had back surgery in the past, so maybe my back is different from others.

But, I don't think you can put a dollar value on it. It's like saying a Ferrari is 20x better than a Kia. They are just different objects at different prices. Both will get you to the store. With one, you may get there faster. Stuff that costs more can't always be broken down in dollar for dollar value.

Someone posted on here their Rupes clone ate up the BP and counterweight because of some interference. That to me makes it worthless. I just want to buy the machine that works and not have to worry about it failing because of this or that. I don't care is it costs 4x the price.

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Yep, I think that’s about right. Without the washer mod, the amount of intentional friction between the top of the backing plate and the shroud is pretty small. It’s just enough designed-in rubbing friction to prevent the pad from spinning out of control if the pad is spinning in free air. It does leave some debris on the top of the backing plate due to the rubbing, so it might be a good idea to clean that every now and then if you don't add the washer spacer.

If your pad has a couple rotations per second or more while you’re using the machine, the small rubbing friction isn’t going to make much difference in the rotations. But if you’re on a curved panel and the pad is barely rotating or on the verge of stopping, that small extra friction is going to stop the pad sooner.

With the washer mod spacer, since the backing plate no is no longer contacting the shroud, you have a bit more margin before the pad stops rotating. You can think of it like this: you have centripetal force driving the pad rotation, and various resistance forces countering that driving force to slow rotations.

It’s when the sum of all resistance to rotation (e.g. user pressure on the pad, plus resistance from non-flat contact area, plus the resistance from the pad/polish combination, plus the resistance from the backing plate rubbing on the shroud) is greater than the centripetal force driving the rotation, that the rotation stops. Taking that backing plate resistance out of the equation (by installing the washer spacer) just gives you a bit more margin before rotation stops.

Since I don’t see the need to prevent the pad from free spinning when the machine is running in free air, I don’t see any reason not to put the washer/spacer in, to pick up a slight bit of margin on when slow pad rotations eventually stop. But people do get great results without the washer spacer installed, so it’s whatever you’re comfortable with. As Swanicyouth noted, it’s not going to make or break your success with the machine.

On a different but related note…
Someone asked earlier about doing the washer mod on other DA’s. Most of the other machines already have a clear gap between the top of the backing plate and the bottom of the shroud (that gap is where you insert the wrench to loosen/tighten the backing plate).


It would only be useful if other machines also implemented some intentional friction between the top of the backing plate and the shroud in order to prevent out-of-control rotation when the pad is in free air. I don’t think any others do implement that, but I could be wrong.

About 40% more rotation with the WM. I'd call that significant.

Does the Rupes NEED it? No. But there's a lot being left on the table without it.

 

[SR99]

About 40% more rotation with the WM. I'd call that significant.

Does the Rupes NEED it? No. But there's a lot being left on the table without it.

There isn't a fixed "rotation multiplier factor" for the spacer or not. It doesn't have that sort of fixed gear-ratio-like effect. It might be the case that under some scenario like comparing free-air spinning with and without the washer for a give OPM setting there is a 40% difference in rotation, but it's not some general rule especially when actually using the machine with multiple other resistance forces at play which muddies the effect. Someone probably threw out this 40% number as a wild guess on some internet thread and a few copy-and-pastes later it became a law of physics ;o)

 

[MarkD51]

About 40% more rotation with the WM. I'd call that significant.

Does the Rupes NEED it? No. But there's a lot being left on the table without it.

Just one curious question about the Rupes in regards to the washer mod.

From the vids I've seen of a few of the Rupes, it looks like a user just basically guides the machine over a panel, it doesn't appear that much downforce is being applied. I commented earlier that these machines look ultra smooth, and effortless in action.

Now, without the washer mod, and a substantial amount of downforce applied, is it possible that due to some flex in the backing plate and spindle, that such pressures exerted causes even a bit more rub-friction, and even further hinders rotation?

I've never examined, or handled the Rupes, and this was just something I had thought of?
Mark

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Now, without the washer mod, and a substantial amount of downforce applied, is it possible that due to some flex in the backing plate and spindle, that such pressures exerted causes even a bit more rub-friction, and even further hinders rotation?

Mark

Absolutely.

This is why the WM is very beneficial; it negates that.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Marco D'Inca was asked about the washer mod in Todd Helm's Rupes Class as Marco D'Inca was also speaking in this class and sharing his Power Point Presentation.

Larry Kosilla was video taping the entire class and Marco had a LOT to say on this so hang tight as I'm sure Larry will get this video edited and then posted.

 

[swanicyouth]

Marco D'Inca was asked about the washer mod in Todd Helm's Rupes Class as Marco D'Inca was also speaking in this class and sharing his Power Point Presentation.

Larry Kosilla was video taping the entire class and Marco had a LOT to say on this so hang tight as I'm sure Larry will get this video edited and then posted.

Will I be removing my washer after I see this video?

Anyone wanna buy a washer?

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

99.9% chance Marco will not advocate it. The anti spin shroud is a safety feature. Why would he go against that? With common sense, you can avoid any safety issues. It increases performance with the washer. I will not remove the washer no matter what Marco says. There's hundreds of people that use the washer mod with no problems. Kevin Brown promotes it, 'nuff said!


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[swanicyouth]

99.9% chance Marco will not advocate it. The anti spin shroud is a safety feature. Why would he go against that? With common sense, you can avoid any safety issues. It increases performance with the washer. I will not remove the washer no matter what Marco says. There's hundreds of people that use the washer mod with no problems. Kevin Brown promotes it, 'nuff said!


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You never know. Things aren't always what they seem. I've heard chatter it's a safety feature - but I haven't heard it confirmed. Maybe there is another reason for it an engineer may be aware of that we are not.

 

[Rsurfer]

99.9% chance Marco will not advocate it. The anti spin shroud is a safety feature. Why would he go against that? With common sense, you can avoid any safety issues. It increases performance with the washer. I will not remove the washer no matter what Marco says. There's hundreds of people that use the washer mod with no problems. Kevin Brown promotes it, 'nuff said!


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As you said Mark, it's a safety issue. They say it's unsafe if you turn the machine on with no load. I'm not at work, or I would try it and see what happens.

 

[FUNX650]

Even though...
I haven't seen where any Laws of Physics have been, or are being broken...{unless this counts:

}


I'd still rather see a comparison between:
RUPES Duetto...12mm (15/32"), 400W...and:
GG6".................8mm (10/32"), 850W.


Even taking the 'efficiency of engineering principals' into account:
To compare two DA's, with one having nearly twice the offset/"throw",
somehow doesn't seem to be in the best interest of: Fair Play to me.





Bob

 

[SR99]

I'd still rather see a comparison between:
RUPES Duetto...12mm (15/32"), 400W...and:
GG6".................8mm (10/32"), 850W.


Even taking the 'efficiency of engineering principals' into account:
To compare two DA's, with one having nearly twice the offset/"throw",
somehow doesn't seem to be in the best interest of: Fair Play to me.

Bob

The 850W AC power consumption rating of the GG6 means about as much as the 6 horsepower ratings of some shop vacs (i.e. not much). The actual measured power of the GG6 is a maximum of 540 watts at max speed setting under massive load, and closer to the 500 watts of other similar machines under normal load at max speed. At the lowest speed I measured 140 watts unloaded and 165 watts loaded.

While I see your point about fair play in the comparison, some people with a GG6 are making a decision of whether to get a large throw RUPES or just stick with the GG6, so in that sense it's a meaningful comparison. I didn't get the RUPES 21 due to correction speed, I got it because it's just a less fatiguing machine to operate overall. But I was fortunate to get to test one out before I bought it. But the faster correction plays to the same theme, since less time polishing reduces fatigue on joints too.

I only recently found that RUPES makes their own motors, so that probably helps the overall smoothness of operation as well since they can tweak them any way they want to get the best match and efficiency. Since the Duetto isn't exactly cheap, I would assume it has all the same build quality and smoothness of their large throw machines. Two extra millimeters of throw radius on the Duetto compared to the GG6 probably won't make a huge difference but the smoothness of operation difference and fatigue factor of hands, arms, elbows, and back might be big. That's just not a big factor for the younger folks.

 

[Rsurfer]

Two extra millimeters of throw radius on the Duetto compared to the GG6 probably won't make a huge difference but the smoothness of operation difference and fatigue factor of hands, arms, elbows, and back might be big. That's just not a big factor for the younger folks.

Isn't the GG6 8mm and the Duetto 12mm?

 

[SR99]

Isn't the GG6 8mm and the Duetto 12mm?

I might misremember but I thought those were both specified as throw diameters, so the radius would be half those numbers, or 4mm vs 6mm.

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Two extra millimeters of throw radius on the Duetto compared to the GG6 probably won't make a huge difference but the smoothness of operation difference and fatigue factor of hands, arms, elbows, and back might be big. That's just not a big factor for the younger folks.

Ummmmmmm, it makes a HUGE difference. Can't count how many times I've posted this. The Duetto SMOKED the GG6 as far as correction. The Duetto has 50% more throw than the GG6.

Rupes vs. Griots Showdown - Rupes Duetto and Mini vs. Griot's 6 and 3 inch polishers - Autopia Forums - Auto Detailing & Car Care Discussion Forum

 

[ski2]

I hope it's OK to post this link as it is informational. This is Kevin Brown's original post regarding the advantages of the Rupes 21. If you read through the thread many of the questions being discussed here are asked and answered by Kevin with significant explanation--many of which he has discussed with Rupes engineers. Hope this helps.

Rupes LHR 21ES Random Orbital Polisher - Features & Benefits - Machine Polishing & Sanding - Autopia