Rupes LK 900E Mille & LH 19E

[VISITOR]

The Makita’s free spinning mode has proven to be worthless from a correction perspective. If one wants a free float polisher and is budget conscious like yourself, there are much better options out there like the PC24XP or GG6. The 5000C is marginally more powerful than the 3401, the Mille is considerably more powerful so I fully understand the Mille’s price. You only need to hold and use the Mille once compared to its respective competitors to warrant the price difference.

i'm not budget conscious or cheap, i will pay for any product that is a good one but there are other things i take into consideration which are just as important as the product itself. anyways, some may like that are two modes with makita which is the point i'm trying to make...

 

[Ronin47]

i'm not budget conscious or cheap, i will pay for any product that is a good one but there are other things i take into consideration which are just as important as the product itself. anyways, some may like that are two modes with makita which is the point i'm trying to make...

I understand your point of having two modes or two machines in one fully and in theory that would be simply wonderful if both modes actually worked as intended. Reality though is quite different. Have you used the Makita? The free float is basically an orbital only good for maybe spreading wax. The machine would sell alot better if it actually was just gear driven only like the 3401 and the Mille. Its like AIO’s, they can do many things but excel at none. Lets take something simple like a dedicated machine like the GG6 or DAS6 Pro as its labeled everywhere else. Simple design, cheap, yet effective. I personally think the GG6 is the best 8mm polisher there is and if the Makita’s freefloat worked like it, that would have been the most versatile polisher there is.

 

[Joel1979]

I had Mille and sold it. While its a great machine, it doesnt correct as fast as MK2 bigfoots especially with microfiber pads.and.the new Rupes.woolpads.

Im interested of the new rotary but it puts me off that they didnt cover the front end with plastic. My guess is that when you do heavy duty correcting, it will get hot which makes it uncomfortable. Currently i have the Festool Rap 150.

 

[Ronin47]

I had Mille and sold it. While its a great machine, it doesnt correct as fast as MK2 bigfoots especially with microfiber pads.and.the new Rupes.woolpads.

Im interested of the new rotary but it puts me off that they didnt cover the front end with plastic. My guess is that when you do heavy duty correcting, it will get hot which makes it uncomfortable. Currently i have the Festool Rap 150.

The D handle fits into that area and I find myself using the D handle more often than not.

 

[VISITOR]

The machine would sell alot better if it actually was just gear driven only like the 3401 and the Mille.

maybe so, but obviously makita thought different. it will be interesting to see how the new rupes pads will work with the flex if one decides to experiment with them (the new kamikaze wool pads look interesting as well). it will be interesting to see your review on it as well as from others. we've already know of one person (Joel1979) selling it on here already...

 

[Ronin47]

Looking forward to the two new polisher offerings from Flex at Sema, just hope its not the 3401 with a different plastic cover known as the XCE. Might be a variation of the PE8 mini rotary too who knows.

 

[Todd@RUPES]

Thanks for your feedback thus far. We are excited by the potential of these tools and their matching systems to be industry leaders.

RUPES biggest industry is automotive... by far. We are not a tool manufacturer who happens to make tools, we are directly attached to the automotive market... first as a supplier of tools and parts to the bodyshops in Europe, then to the detailers in the USA. You are our focus, and the reason why we innovate. There is a reason that RUPES - for 70 years - has been The Original with so many finish and refinish products...

First palm sander? RUPES
First power tool with a plastic body? RUPES
First electric sander / orbital polisher? RUPES
First gear-drive/ forced-rotation polisher? RUPES
First double gear-reduction rotary polisher? RUPES
First large-orbit single head polishers? RUPES
First 15mm orbital polisher? RUPES
First 12mm mini polisher? RUPES
First key chains that look like a RUPES polisher? RUPES
The Nano? RUPES

Our growth in the USA has been explosive! We currently do more a month in sales, BY FAR, then we did my first entire year in the USA! We have been forced to build a second factory to keep up with demand. As many of you know, we elected to build that state-of-the-art factory in the USA and it will go on line sometime by this months end (or near).

We also continue to attract and hire some of the biggest and best in our little industry. RUPES is a tool manufacturer who had to become a pad manufacturer, who had to become a compound manufacturer (if you understand the dynamics of large-orbital polishing). We have now built a very powerful infrastructure in Europe and USA and those teams are working together to take our consumable offering from as good as anybodies to maximum awesome.

We are a small, family owned Italian tool company that is dedicated the automotive market, and dedicated to the United States. We will continue to the first to market with amazing tools and tool innovations... and we will continue to back it with world class customer service. We will continue to put on sold-out training events around the USA, European, and Caribbean, sometimes 3 in a weekend, that other companies simply do not have the personal to compete with.

We will remain dedicated to our customers and will always try to improve on our weaknesses. Sorry to steer this thread away from the tools performance, but there were a few floating points thru out the thread that I wanted to address in a respectful way.

Cheers and enjoy your new tools

 

[atgonzales]

Todd what you have described is vertical integration to control quality and protect the the name and image of Rupes, it is an expensive endeavor which means Rupes is concerned with user’s experience; purchase, use, components and the perfection of paint.

 

[dlc95]

May I ask how you come to that conclusion? Considering that the XCE has been talked about ONLY, unless you have actually been able to use the Mille and the rumored XCE, this statement is noting more than speculation.

The Makinta PO5000C was supposed to put the XC 3401 into the history books. It was supposed to be much faster at correcting paint, much smoother, and was dual mode (free rotation and geared rotation). When the machine actually arrived, the free rotation mode was found to be not very useful. It was smoother, but it corrected paint only marginally faster. In return, you had a machine that was somewhat faster, but not significantly so (it would take the XC3401 one section pass more to get the same correction), when the pads and compounds were identical, on identical panel surfaces). When it was announced, it spun in the same direction as a rotary; when the polisher actually arrived, it didn't; it spun in the same direction as the XC3401. All this is to say, that what you end up in your hands may not always be what is "said" or :rumored" to be the case, isn't. Having said all of that, please let us all know how you came to the conclusion that a polisher that as of yet, only exists as either a prototype, or in a lab in Germany, will be better or worse than any existing polisher (XC3401, PO500C, Mille, or any other geared rotation polisher)? Or is this just the "its a Rupes, so it is better than everything else" sort of statement?

Mike is using one here at 8:28.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hQD1cBCm6Ok

 

[Todd@RUPES]

Todd what you have described is vertical integration to control quality and protect the the name and image of Rupes, it is an expensive endeavor which means Rupes is concerned with user’s experience; purchase, use, components and the perfection of paint.

Yessir.. to our knowledge we are the only company in the world that engineers and manufacturers our own motors - both high tech electric and pneumatic as well as the upcoming DC, backing plates (actually a very big deal when it comes to building sanders), pads, compounds, etc.

Not only has the integration allowed for very high levels of quality control (currently less than 1% warranty repair rates - unheard of for power tools) but it also gives us to ability to innovate freely.

 

[brettS4]

Having said all of that, please let us all know how you came to the conclusion that a polisher that as of yet, only exists as either a prototype, or in a lab in Germany, will be better or worse than any existing polisher (XC3401, PO500C, Mille, or any other geared rotation polisher)? Or is this just the "its a Rupes, so it is better than everything else" sort of statement?

Ironically, I have no dog in this fight. I don't own a FLEX, RUPES or Makita. I've never used any one of them. All my insight is strictly through user reviews.

Of course, you yourself admit that the the Makita is slightly more powerful and smoother than the 3401. Which puts the 3401 automatically in second place, by some standards. The Mille might not be perfect but every report seems to say it's about as good as you can get, with some caveats. Which means it's certainly not relegated to second place.

Then there is the XCE. Well, we don't know jack about that because FLEX still haven't given us one after two sad years of marketing it. If they don't come through this time, it's safe to say it's not even in third place. It's a DNF. However, if they do drop one on the table and say it will be selling by the end of the month, it just might hold a place in the gear driven lineup. But by all first hand reports, it's not likely refined enough to be considered the smoothest or have the best ergonomics. Maybe the big improvement will be heat buildup suppressed to the level everyone else has been at for years.

I guess I was being generous when I said the XCE might hold second place. But who knows. Maybe I'll buy one this year. I will say that it's now or never. I'll have a forced rotation polisher by next spring. If FLEX has one out worth considering, I'll add it to the list. But I'm pretty sure the 3401 is already ruled out.

 

[Ronin47]

Yessir.. to our knowledge we are the only company in the world that engineers and manufacturers our own motors - both high tech electric and pneumatic as well as the upcoming DC, backing plates (actually a very big deal when it comes to building sanders), pads, compounds, etc.

Not only has the integration allowed for very high levels of quality control (currently less than 1% warranty repair rates - unheard of for power tools) but it also gives us to ability to innovate freely.

Todd,the label on the Mille states 250-560rpm as does the manual but the graph states 275-535rpm. I’m assuming the Mille spins as low as 250rpm and maxes out at 560rpm?

 

[Mike@ShineStruck]

The LH19E Rotary which noone has asked about is a real gem, I find it odd that the PE-14 gets less spotlight time than the 3401 and the LH19E almost ignored with everyone only eager to know about the Mille. For the rotary and non rotary users, the LH19E is going to change the way you see rotaries. I can see other rotary polishers following suit.

The mille looks so awkward though
Im def interested in the upcomming rotary

 

[Ronin47]

The mille looks so awkward though
Im def interested in the upcomming rotary

You will love it.

 

[kkritsilas]

Mike is using one here at 8:28.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hQD1cBCm6Ok

Mike is using one of the prototype XCE polishers which were shown at SEMA for the last two years. Whether this represents the actual polisher that is actually going to be released is a completely open question. This was my point regarding BrettS4's post putting the XCE in third place. As of right now, in the absence of any new information from Flex, or an actual available XCE, there is no way to say how it will compare. Could it be a dog? Yes. Could it be the best geared rotation polisher out there? Also yes. There is no way to know until either Flex releases more information, or an actual product. Could Flex screw up? Of course. But I would point out, as I have in a previous post, that the XFE prototypes had issues as well, and Flex fixed the mechanics and the cooling on the final, shipping units They may do a number of things on the XCE final units that are not in the prototypes, nobody knows (outside of Flex and some insiders like Mike, who are probably not at liberty to discuss this).

Judging a final unit by how a prototype works is really not going to help anything. The reason that prototypes are made is to find all the issues in a design, and correct them before a unit goes into volume production. I am sure that Flex putting the XCE prototypes into the hands of experienced detailers is not an accident, and want to get feedback and make improvements from that feedback. This is the same reason Makita had an engineering/prototype team at one of Mike's detailing classes years before the PO5000C was released.

 

[Ronin47]

Mike is using one of the prototype XCE polishers which were shown at SEMA for the last two years. Whether this represents the actual polisher that is actually going to be released is a completely open question. This was my point regarding Ronin47's post putting the XCE in third place. As of right now, in the absence of any new information from Flex, or an actual availabe XCE9, there is no way to say how it will compare. Could it be a dog? Yes. Could it be the best geared rotation polisher out there? Also yes. There is no way to know until either Flex releases more information, or an actual product.Could Flex screw up? Of course. But I would point out, as I have in a previous post, that the XFE prototypes had issues as well, and Flex fixed the mechanics and the cooling on the final, shipping units They may do a number of things on the XCE final units that are not in the prototypes, nobody knows (outside of Flex and some insiders like Mike, who are probably not at liberty to discuss this).

Judging a final unit by how a prototype works is really not going to help anything. The reason that prototypes are made is to find all the issues in a design, and correct them before a unit goes into volume production. I am sure that Flex putting the XCE prototypes into the hands of experienced detailers is not an accident, and want to get feedback and make improvements from that feedback. This is the same reason Makita had an engineering/prototype team at one of Mike's detailing classes years before the PO5000C was released.

You are mistaken, I didn’t position any polishers into places.

 

[kkritsilas]

Ronin47, my apology. I mis-attributed the positioning statement by BrettS4.

 

[Ronin47]

I had Mille and sold it. While its a great machine, it doesnt correct as fast as MK2 bigfoots especially with microfiber pads.and.the new Rupes.woolpads.

Im interested of the new rotary but it puts me off that they didnt cover the front end with plastic. My guess is that when you do heavy duty correcting, it will get hot which makes it uncomfortable. Currently i have the Festool Rap 150.

Joel, I’m finding this hard to believe. 4 paint corrections from soft, medium to hard paints with all the tools and the Mille is right up there with the MKII’s. I’m not even using heavy pressure infact same light pressure as the MKII’s and the Mille is a demon. I’m using speed 4 on all the tools,same pads and product. 4 different paints can’t be wrong.

 

[DaveT435]

The LH19E Rotary which noone has asked about is a real gem, I find it odd that the PE-14 gets less spotlight time than the 3401 and the LH19E almost ignored with everyone only eager to know about the Mille. For the rotary and non rotary users, the LH19E is going to change the way you see rotaries. I can see other rotary polishers following suit.

I've got a PE14 and really like it. What the difference in the LH19E and the PE14? Both these machines have me interested. I just can't imagine enough difference in a rotary to make other manufacturers change their design.

 

[Joel1979]

Joel, I’m finding this hard to believe. 4 paint corrections from soft, medium to hard paints with all the tools and the Mille is right up there with the MKII’s. I’m not even using heavy pressure infact same light pressure as the MKII’s and the Mille is a demon. I’m using speed 4 on all the tools,same pads and product. 4 different paints can’t be wrong.

Well my results were different. I did several tests on two different clearcoats. I polished p1500 and P2000 sanding marks. All the pro detailers here in Finland that i have talked, agrees with me. Its fantastic machine but i prefer long throws and rotary. It is definilately better than 3401. Also i dont like the fact that Mille doesnt perfrom well at all with microfiber pads. With the new Rupes woolpad i expected it to excel but it was bit restless and didnt cut like 15-21 did. Like i said, i have nano, duetto with 3" kamikaze, 15mk2, 21mk and Festool Shinex, Mille didnt bring anything for table and didnt live up to its expections.

I sure did love the external upgrades of Mille compared to MK2. Hopefully MK3 will get that speed dial, variable speed trigger and dual rubber rest. Oh and brushless motor