Salty roads leading to rust specks on freshly ceramic coated car... Normal?

SWETM said:
Is it the CG Citrus Wash & Gloss?

If so it can be that the glossenhancers in the car soap degrade the water behavior by glogging it. And if you like gtechnic they have the g-wash which is an one that leaves nothing behind. I like Carpro Reset car soap as it's made for coatings and leaves nothing behind and rinse off clean. Unfortuneally some car soap is not so coating friendly as the addetives is masking and clogging the coatings. And some are the surfactans used in them hard to rinse off. Also have in mind that when useing car soap as prewash foam it's often too high of concentration and is more risk to clogging the water behavior and self cleaning ability. And also some prewash foams has protection and or glossenhancers in them that do the same. Gyeon Foam and gtechnic w4 citrus foam and GG Surface Wash is some options of prewash foams that are good to use on coatings. So a switch to another car soap can make your CSL behavior and self cleaning ability gets better after 2-3 washes.
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Yes, I believe that's it. When I bought it I thought it did not have any gloss in it but upon further reading it does.

Are there shampoos out there that aren't marketed as coating specific but would do as great a job and would leave nothing behind. I feel like you are paying a significant premium buying shampoo marketed for coatings from those guys. CarPro Reset, even when bought in Gallon form, is 4 times more expensive than the Chemical Guy Citrus stuff I use... When using it in a foam cannon it certainly uses a ton of it. While I know that good products cost $$, wondering if there is something just as good at rinsing off clean without the hefty marketing price tag...

Also, I did use Chemical Guy EcoSmart Waterless Wash on the coating a few times - bad idea? I'm guessing that could certainly affect the coating as it leaves wax behind...

EDIT: Actually, it is not CG Citrus Wash & Gloss, but very similar. It is Citrus Wash Clean... it does still have gloss enhancers though, but less than CG W&G... W&G is CWS301, this one is CWS302 which is a hybrid product meant for more foam/suds...
 
Meguiars Hyper Wash is one that many likes that leaves nothing behind. I have not used it myself though but trust the forum members. There are some with glossenhancer that don't interfear with the coating behavior. Optimum Car Wash and McKees 37 SiO2 wash.

For rinseless wash and waterless wash. McKees 37 N-914 don't leave anything behind and think that the new Griots Garage Rinseless don't either but not hundred procent certain that it don't. Carpro EcH2O and Wolfgang über rinseless wash is some that leaves behind but don't interfear. Don't know about ONR though since I have heard different about it on how it interfear for some and not others.

I would get a bottle of Reset and maybe every 3-4 wash use it. It's quite high dilution at 1:400 so it gets you some washes. I don't use it in a foamcannon cause of the price. And when maintance washes I dilute it 1:800 without any problems and still effective to clean the car with. Also prewash foam that is really good is unfortuneally pricey. I live in Sweden and we have a bigger options of prewash foam products. And we also use more to pretreat when washing like degreasers that desolves tar. That we have a big trouble with during the winter months here. So an alkaline based degreaser and a tar remover before we even touches the paint here. A little different way to go at it. The big benefit is that coatings is very resistant against chemicals. Also some sealants is that too.
 
Another thought - do we agree that there is a stronger probability that the Waterless Wash & Wax is the more problematic product? As I said, I`ve used this product twice on the paint in the 2 months since it was coated. Since it is formulated as a wash and wax, a large amount of stuff is getting left behind as compared to the Chemical Guys soap I use, which does have gloss enhancers but no wax.
 
I agree with having a bottle of Reset and using it at least once a month on a coated vehicle.

Meguiar’s Hyperwash works fine on coated paint. It also won’t break the bank.

I still have a little Adams and that works fine.

I don’t waterless wash that often but I do use Mckee’s N914 on coated paint with no issues. CarPro EcH20 is another that works and doesn’t mask the coatings properties.

ONR is ok. It does leave something behind as the beading characteristics change. Although nothing long term.
 
To isolate my problem, should I IPA wipe a panel to remove any polymer, wax or gloss enhancer on top of the coating and see if it improves performance on that panel compared to adjacent panels?

Any harm in using IPA on top of CSL? I suspect it won't affect CSL?
 
I did wipe down half a panel with IPA and saw little to no change... still not seeing much water sheeting or beading on the lower doors... I seem to be getting good water performance above the belt line of the car but not on lower panels...

I fear that maybe my garage wasn't warm enough for when I applied the coating. I had relied on a wall mounted thermometer in my garage (integrated in my garage door opener keypad) but now realize that those are much warmer than when taking a portable thermometer in the middle of the garage. The garage door keypads are on an inside wall with the house and that wall would be much warmer than the rest of the garage. Perhaps it was only 15-17 degrees C (60-63 F) during the application. Perhaps not warm enough for CSL to start curing before I wiped it off... Really don't know...

Also, my garage was probably very humid since I had washed the vehicle inside the garage the evening prior to applying CSL. Combination of temperature and high humidity may have affected my application...
 
Temp would have very little to do with CSL since it can be applied in temps as low as 5c.
 
With CSL being a apply and wipe off with no wait for flash I would guess humidity would have very little to do with it either. I have done about 10 vehicles with CSL in the last year or two with quite different conditions and it always seemed to act the same. I will say EXO was different depending on temp and humidity tho just never noticed any difference with the CSL application.
 
What type of weather are you driving through?
 
I think I've come to the conclusion that my application did not turn out okay. On the bottom 12-16 inches of doors, the water literally just stays there, even after "cleansing" the panel with IPA to remove gloss enhancers or waxes... it barely even sheets down, no different from an uncoated car. Either CSL did not cure properly or the environmental factors during my application delayed curing and then when I first drove it outdoors in the crappy canadian slush/snow/salt it degraged the coating on the bottom of the doors, etc. where water/slush splattered. I guess we will never know but I think I will try again. I have a 2019 BMW X3 M40i on order with a May delivery. I plan on coating that car as well - in warmer weather and taking extra precautions.

I will do additional Iron-X applications after polishing, will do 2 wipe downs with an IPA solution (or use CarPro Eraser or GTechniq Panel Wipes). I will also apply the CSL in smaller grids using more product - last time I finished the entire vehicle and still had like 30-40% of a 30ml bottle left - an XC90 is not a small vehicle. Perhaps I was not using enough or spreading it out too thin. I will also wait much longer before exposing it to the elements or moisture - ideally I will try to leave the vehicle out to bake in the sun (on a dry day, after the initial 24 hour cure period).

I will also top it with EXO but I still feel like CSL on it's own should have performed better than my result.
 
nvestr said:
The crappiest! lol

Slush, snow, salt, ice chunks, salt spray kicked up by tires.
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This explains it right here. Fairly common from other members that live in similar environments where the coating fails in the lower panels. It may need repeated washes to see if it can be revived as it could be potentially contaminated and clogged. Which is why we were recommending Reset.

That’s the downside of living in harsh climates.
 
I have a few pictures of my car from last year when I did a RW/WW on it when I had CSL with EXO v3 at 9 months. It was quite cold then too and it hit a high of 2f that day. I first sprayed it down twice with N914 at WW strength and then did a RW with N914 at RW concentration. We can have some fairly harsh weather also. Then A picture of what came off my car a couple weeks ago when I did the same.

404 - Ancient_1

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It's hard to say if your coating has actually failed or is clogged. But you have 2 potential reasons. 1 it's clogged from your environment you live in and it's possible for a coating to look done. The ipa or a panel wipe product would not revive it on it's own. I can see a little difference in a better water behavior when I have used a TFR prewash foam and followed by a tar remover. But the contact wash with reset is where the biggest difference is to see the water behavior coming back. 2 is the environment you applyied the coating in. I don't for sure know how it is with CSL. But some coatings has a chemical made up that draw the moisture to it in the beginning. That's why you see the recommended time to not getting it wet during the 24h cure time. And if you got to much of moisture soaked up by the coating after application. Then it's also a very wet environment the first time you drive the car. I think you can get a coating failure where you describe it on the lower side panels. You see it's a lot of ifs and really hard to tell without doing a thorough decon wash and 2bm wash with carpro reset. And see where you are from that. I have not seen a coating failure cause of the high moisture when applyied. But have experienced it with the old version of Ultima Paint Guard Plus that had the solvents carrier in them. And 3days after the application it was like nothing had been applyied on the paint. I did the application late in the afternoon and the dew came in early. Have used the same UPGP without any problems but without the dew LOL. So that's why I think you could also have a coating failure because of the high moisture levels where you applyied it. But I did a decon wash on the UPGP to know that it don't had a case of clogged behavior. I can say I was scratching my head before I came up with what has happened. And with a lot of wet environment you could benefit with a water spot remover too. As there can be with a lot of lime scale bonded to the coating over time that clogg your coating. Or a white vinegar wipe down can work also.
 
Ancient1 said:
I have a few pictures of my car from last year when I did a RW/WW on it when I had CSL with EXO v3 at 9 months. It was quite cold then too and it hit a high of 2f that day. I first sprayed it down twice with N914 at WW strength and then did a RW with N914 at RW concentration. We can have some fairly harsh weather also. Then A picture of what came off my car a couple weeks ago when I did the same.

404 - Ancient_1

2019-01-31%2013.00.25.jpg~original
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Bad link? I don`t see any photos and the link gives me a 404 error... Would love to see it though! thanks
 
I will try my best to revive it - bottle of Reset on order (along with some other goodies - Master Blaster Revolution!! :))

What product should I use to decontaminate beyond Reset? I have Iron-X for iron but my only tar-focused product is Poorboy`s Bug Squash and I find it very mild, even at full strength.
 
You could use the bug squash as the degreaser part. And then either gtechnic tar remover or Carpro TarX or Gyeon Tar as those are made for tar removal on coatings. And then wash with Reset. We have something called Cold Degreaser here in Sweden. It's basicly a tar remover based on naptha. Have not seen anything like those on the US market. Even if Sonax for an example has this in EU. But a tar remover will work perfectly fine.

How is your water where you live? Has it a hard water. Sometimes if you do touchless washes and don't get the paint dry and some of the water dries up on you. You can build up mineral deposits and lime scale that clogg your coating. And it's much dependant on what minerals it is in the water to get it to desolve. That's why it can be good to do an iron removal too. If it has lime scale a water spot remover or white vinegar or an acidic based product desolves that. Different chemicals desolves different kind of dirt and contaminants. So it can be worth to test out some different based chemicals to see which works on which dirt and contaminants. And that is not only when haveing a coating as LSP but it's environment based on what you are faceing. We have a lot of lime scale in our water. But the better protection the easier they are to get rid off.

Ohh nice with a Master Blaster! Makes drying fun LOL. And great to get the nook and crannies dry.
 
I looked at the label on my current car soap :
61M0MlMM0SL._SL1000_.jpg


According to the description it is supposed to wash off clean with no additives, etc. Also, the name in itself seems to indicate that it's a no additives/no frills coating.

I'm trying to salvage this soap since I have a brand new gallon - want to be sure the soap is the problem before I buy a gallon of something else.

Obviously I will try to revive the coating with Reset and see if that brings back good water behavior. If it does, I may do some spot testing and only wash one side of the vehicle with this CG soap and see if it changes the characteristics...
 
SWETM said:
You could use the bug squash as the degreaser part. And then either gtechnic tar remover or Carpro TarX or Gyeon Tar as those are made for tar removal on coatings. And then wash with Reset. We have something called Cold Degreaser here in Sweden. It's basicly a tar remover based on naptha. Have not seen anything like those on the US market. Even if Sonax for an example has this in EU. But a tar remover will work perfectly fine.

How is your water where you live? Has it a hard water. Sometimes if you do touchless washes and don't get the paint dry and some of the water dries up on you. You can build up mineral deposits and lime scale that clogg your coating. And it's much dependant on what minerals it is in the water to get it to desolve. That's why it can be good to do an iron removal too. If it has lime scale a water spot remover or white vinegar or an acidic based product desolves that. Different chemicals desolves different kind of dirt and contaminants. So it can be worth to test out some different based chemicals to see which works on which dirt and contaminants. And that is not only when haveing a coating as LSP but it's environment based on what you are faceing. We have a lot of lime scale in our water. But the better protection the easier they are to get rid off.

Ohh nice with a Master Blaster! Makes drying fun LOL. And great to get the nook and crannies dry.
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Water is average... I have municipal water and I have a water softener in my house so my water is soft (but has sodium content due to water softening process - so if not dried properly I get soft water spots instead of hard water spots, soft are easier to clean up though). Also, when I do use waterless wash it is always with store-bought distilled water.
 
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