Stripping the wax? Necessary?

[93fox]

So i received my very first purchase from Autogeek and i am very satisfied! I got myself some collinite 845 and would like to apply it to my car! But my car currently has Autogylm HD wax. Do i need to remove it and then put 845 on top or just put it on top of the HD Wax? I have a product called "wax & grease remover" that i use when im about to paint a car, it removes everything n cleans it all! Should i use this to remove the wax and then apply 845? Im really lost here since its the first time ever coming across this situation! Any help will be very much appreciated!

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

You can do it a couple of different ways, there's a lot of opinions on which way is best.

I'm a fan of machine polishing with a light finishing polish, this will effectively remove all the old wax, clean the paint so it's smooth, clear and clean and leave it ready for wax.

You could also do this by hand with a paint cleaner.

Both of the above approaches will enhance the appearance of the paint because both steps make the paint look good in and of themselves. The wax will just build on these results.

Chemically stripping doesn't tend to make the paint clear and glossy, in fact it will tend to dull it but you really only see the dulling effect on black or other dark colors. The wax will restore clarity to any dulling that takes place.

Others like to strip the paint with some other approach, Detergent wash, IPA, MS, etc.


What are you working on?

 

[Kristopher1129]

Strip it! That way you'll start on a clean slate. Then you can really see your new wax in action. Not only that, it will help your wax stick to the paint much easier. Wouldn't hurt to follow the wax remover with an ONR type product. Remover tends to leave paint hazy.

I don't think it's necessary if down the road you wanted to add another coat of wax. But it's good to do if you're trying a new product. That way you'll get a good clean test, and you can compare the two. :xyxthumbs:

 

[fancyfootwork]

I can't even comment because Mike already dominated everyone elses opinions.

 

[Wendell Jarvis]

You can do it a couple of different ways, there's a lot of opinions on which way is best.

I'm a fan of machine polishing with a light finishing polish, this will effectively remove all the old wax, clean the paint so it's smooth, clear and clean and leave it ready for wax.

You could also do this by hand with a paint cleaner.

Both of the above approaches will enhance the appearance of the paint because both steps make the paint look good in and of themselves. The wax will just build on these results.

Chemically stripping doesn't tend to make the paint clear and glossy, in fact it will tend to dull it but you really only see the dulling effect on black or other dark colors. The wax will restore clarity to any dulling that takes place.

Others like to strip the paint with some other approach, Detergent wash, IPA, MS, etc.


What are you working on?

:dblthumb2: there is your answer,,,,simple and yet effective....I personally like a light polish...Sonax makes a great paint cleaner.

 

[Nitro24]

I can't even comment because Mike already dominated everyone elses opinions.

So true, lol. He's quite the expert...:xyxthumbs:

 

[93fox]

You can do it a couple of different ways, there's a lot of opinions on which way is best.

I'm a fan of machine polishing with a light finishing polish, this will effectively remove all the old wax, clean the paint so it's smooth, clear and clean and leave it ready for wax.

You could also do this by hand with a paint cleaner.

Both of the above approaches will enhance the appearance of the paint because both steps make the paint look good in and of themselves. The wax will just build on these results.

Chemically stripping doesn't tend to make the paint clear and glossy, in fact it will tend to dull it but you really only see the dulling effect on black or other dark colors. The wax will restore clarity to any dulling that takes place.

Others like to strip the paint with some other approach, Detergent wash, IPA, MS, etc.


What are you working on?

Its a 2008 black mustang! Ive wetsanded it to remove all the orange peel and did m105/m205/po85rd! So im guessing that going over with it with PO85rd is what you meant? And then apply the wax?

 

[Rsurfer]

Its a 2008 black mustang! Ive wetsanded it to remove all the orange peel and did m105/m205/po85rd! So im guessing that going over with it with PO85rd is what you meant? And then apply the wax?

Is this a re-paint or oem? If oem did you use a ptg after wet sanding?

 

[93fox]

Is this a re-paint or oem? If oem did you use a ptg after wet sanding?

Its a repaint, pretty much all they did was shoot some base and a high end dollar shiny clear!

 

[mcpp66]

You can do it a couple of different ways, there's a lot of opinions on which way is best.

I'm a fan of machine polishing with a light finishing polish, this will effectively remove all the old wax, clean the paint so it's smooth, clear and clean and leave it ready for wax.

I did this once with a PC, gray LC pads, and 85rd and liked doing it this way. However I tend to worry about making the clear too thin by repeatedly doing this, regardless of how gentle the gray pads and 85rd are. Someone please tell me that I should never have to worry about making the clear too thin with these tools (even my soft clear coat) because I like being able to use a very fine polish to enhance the gloss and strip wax at the same time.

 

[feslope]

my car currently has Autogylm HD wax. Do i need to remove it and then put 845 on top or just put it on top of the HD Wax?

Maybe not. Mike always tells us two things, use the least aggressive approach and do a test spot. In this case try your wax on a test spot, if you are happy with the results wax the rest of the car, if not do your polish step, Use of a mild clay might not be a bad idea either.

 

[Rsurfer]

I did this once with a PC, gray LC pads, and 85rd and liked doing it this way. However I tend to worry about making the clear too thin by repeatedly doing this, regardless of how gentle the gray pads and 85rd are. Someone please tell me that I should never have to worry about making the clear too thin with these tools (even my soft clear coat) because I like being able to use a very fine polish to enhance the gloss and strip wax at the same time.

85rd has very little cut, so you should not have a problem.

 

[James K]

Before I apply any new LSP I like to remove the old one. I do this either with a fine polish if the car needs it, or a paint cleaner. I like using Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion. That is just my way of doing things. Is it right or wrong? Neither. It's whatever you like to do.

 

[mcpp66]

85rd has very little cut, so you should not have a problem.

But it does have cut and factory paint is thin. Eventually something's gotta give, right?

 

[Rsurfer]

Before I apply any new LSP I like to remove the old one. I do this either with a fine polish if the car needs it, or a paint cleaner. I like using Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion. That is just my way of doing things. Is it right or wrong? Neither. It's whatever you like to do.

:iagree:Love PPCL:xyxthumbs:

 

[93fox]

Im just gonna go ahead and hit
It with po85rd and then wax it! Ill show you guys tommorow on "show n shine" how it all turned out with collinite 845!

 

[embolism]

But it does have cut and factory paint is thin. Eventually something's gotta give, right?

I've tried to look into this and have an old post on here that documented what I found. In a nutshell, it would take about 10 years of using 105/205 once a year (assuming good technique) to go through enough of an average clearcoat that you might get failure in some areas. That doesn't mean you've gone through the clear, mind you, just taken off enough of it such that the UV protective agents (which migrate to the top layers of the clear) are basically removed so the sun's rays will start to affect your paint. It is a slow process however and would probably take another few years to occur. The clear on newer cars seems to get thinner and thinner every year but generally, that's what my research has found. Over the normal lifecycle of a car, if you are only using 85rd with the occasion full correction, then you don't really have to worry too much.

 

[mcpp66]

I've tried to look into this and have an old post on here that documented what I found. In a nutshell, it would take about 10 years of using 105/205 once a year (assuming good technique) to go through enough of an average clearcoat that you might get failure in some areas. That doesn't mean you've gone through the clear, mind you, just taken off enough of it such that the UV protective agents (which migrate to the top layers of the clear) are basically removed so the sun's rays will start to affect your paint. It is a slow process however and would probably take another few years to occur. The clear on newer cars seems to get thinner and thinner every year but generally, that's what my research has found. Over the normal lifecycle of a car, if you are only using 85rd with the occasion full correction, then you don't really have to worry too much.

Good info, reading that does make me feel more comfortable. Thanks.

 

[Spicy McHaggis]

I would say it depends what your goal is and what condition your paint is in. If your only goal is to wax the car and you don't need to do any correction or polishing, a wipe down with IPA or your cleaner would work just fine. Or you could presoak your car with APC (TAW, OPC, APC+) and let it dwell for a while before you wash it. This is a very easy and effective method of removing protection from your vehicle.

If your paint is in pretty good shape but you want it to be perfect I would say do a light polish (PO85rd, 106fa, Ultrafina) before you apply your new wax. Also on top of that, or instead of that, you could use a paint cleaner (Prima Amigo, P21s, Pinnacle) to prepare the surface for your new wax. These won't do much in the way of correcting any marring you have on the paint, but they will make sure it is clean and ready for your new wax.

Finally if you want you can also clay the old wax off, however if your vehicle doesn't need to be clayed in the first place this would not be the most effective way of doing this. However if you vehicle does need to be clayed be sure to still follow up the claying with at least a paint cleaner since most clays leave so sort of surface marring.

I can't even comment because Mike already dominated everyone elses opinions.

Just because Mike posts doesn't mean everyone else's opinion doesn't matter. Mike knows alot about detailing and has a lot of experience, but anyone that claims to know it all (not that Mike does) obviously doesn't since in this field you can learn someing new everyday. I'm sure Mike still learns things from others on this site just as we do from him. :dblthumb2:

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Its a 2008 black mustang! Ive wetsanded it to remove all the orange peel and did m105/m205/po85rd! So im guessing that going over with it with PO85rd is what you meant? And then apply the wax?

Yes, that's what I meant or the answer to the question I was asking.

What I wanted to know was if you were waxing the neighbor's Town & Country Van, (daily driver), or something special to you...

Your answer shows its' something special to you so the goal is to maximize beauty.

Polishing with a light polish to remove something previously applied removes the product and leaves the paint clean, clear, smooth and perfect for applying your choice of an LSP, that's what I call working forwards in the process.

Wiping with a solvent or washing with a strong detergent wash may work well to clean the surface but it's not typically what you would call or think of as a beautifying step, and I call this working backwards in the process if the goal is a show car finish. It's okay for a mundane daily driver but for a 2008 Black Mustang that you've poured your heart and soul into, I would opt for a procedure that's creating and working towards the goal of a show car finish, not the opposite.

Each person can find their own way...

I did this once with a PC, gray LC pads, and 85rd and liked doing it this way.

It can take a little longer but if the car in question is important to you then in my opinion it's worth it.

However I tend to worry about making the clear too thin by repeatedly doing this, regardless of how gentle the gray pads and 85rd are. Someone please tell me that I should never have to worry about making the clear too thin with these tools (even my soft clear coat) because I like being able to use a very fine polish to enhance the gloss and strip wax at the same time.

It would be the least of my worries using PO85RD with a soft finishing pad on a DA Polisher.

Im just gonna go ahead and hit
It with po85rd and then wax it! Ill show you guys tomorrow on "show n shine" how it all turned out with collinite 845!

Looking forward to the pictures already...

Just because Mike posts doesn't mean everyone else's opinion doesn't matter.

Last night when I first posted to this thread, it was late but I figured... why not... answer the members question and try to summarize the available options, didn't mean to keep anyone from sharing their thoughts opinions. In fact... the more the merrier...

Mike knows alot about detailing and has a lot of experience, but anyone that claims to know it all (not that Mike does) obviously doesn't since in this field you can learn someing new everyday. I'm sure Mike still learns things from others on this site just as we do from him. :dblthumb2:

Well said.

At one time in my life I called on Body shops, Dealerships and Detail Shops basically as a Trainer for Meguiar's mostly showing how to wetsand, cut and buff with rotary buffers for body shops and how to buff out neglected paint for dealerships and detail shops.

Out of the three different types of business I called on my least favorite was detailers at detail shops because for the most part most of these guys were "self-taught" and they would get proud and wall themselves off to new products, new techniques and new ideas.

It taught me to never be like them. It taught be to always be open to learning about new products, new techniques and new ideas. So "yes" I'm always learning from others and always looking to learn, it's a never-ending quest.