Swirls again? from MF?

sportscarhiatus

sportscarhiatus

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Folks... Something is boggling me today. As you know, I just finished doing a complete PC job on wife's car this past weekend. Did Menzerna Micro Polish on white pad, then Menzerna Glaze, then 2 coats of Klasse Glaze. Now here's the thing... after I polished, I obviously used a halogen light to determine if I removed all the swirls. I didn't remove every single one, but I would say I was able to remove 90-95% of them. So anyways, after my glazing with the PC, and after sealing with Klasse, I didn't use a halogen light to look if I put any swirls... but on 2nd thought maybe I should have.

Problem is, I met my wife for lunch today and obviously was still impressed with how good her car looked... but upon much closer inspection (under the noon sun), I noticed that there some very very fine swirls that were on her paint!!! I'm like... "WHAT THE F...........". Where did THAT come from? So my questions are:

1) Did I never truly remove THOSE swirls when I used the PC... meaning they were there even after I buffed. Did the noon sun show more swirls that the halogen light didn't show?

2) Or did I induce those swirls from my application of detail spray and from application of 2 coats of Klasse using an MF pad and removing it via MF towels?

I'm a little perturbed because I just hate any form of swirls on my paint no matter how minute. I guess the good news is that I can buff again :( But still... I am worried that I am doing something stupid with how I use my MF towels or pads during sealant/wax application phase. I always make sure I have a clean surface using the California Duster followed by Detail Spray with MF.

I'll check with a Halogen light today when I get home to see if the swirls look the same from immediate post-polish with PC... if there are more, then it definitely is because of how I applied Klasse sealant and/or Detail spray :(

Help! Feed back please
 
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Check your MF towels and see if they are a 70/30 blend. That is what you want if you dont want to put fine swirls back in your paint after polishing. Most of my towels are 80/20 blend and they tend to mark up the paint if i use them too much

Im pretty sure the PC would have removed them unless they were fingernail deep scratches.
 
AudiTTman said:
Check your MF towels and see if they are a 70/30 blend. That is what you want if you dont want to put fine swirls back in your paint after polishing. Most of my towels are 80/20 blend and they tend to mark up the paint if i use them too much

Im pretty sure the PC would have removed them unless they were fingernail deep scratches.
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That's the word I was looking for... FINE swirls. Yes, I think I may have some fine swirls. Which still sucks. I didn't know that some MF towels cause swirls, depending on ratio content of polyester etc... Is that really true? I thought the reason why we switched to MF's is that they don't cause swirls... arrrrrrgggggggggggggggggh.... I guess I'll have to live with very fine swirls all my life :(
 
I'd bet money you didn't remove them in the 1st place.

PO87MC (Micro Polish) is a finishing polish, with a cut level of 1. It is suited for "jeweling"/"burnishing" and not removing defects.

To remove the defects you need to step up to a more aggressive polish
 
I've always wanted to ask this question too... perhaps this may have contributed to lackluster quality of my MF towels.

I have about 20 - 30 or so, that I've accumulated in about 3 years. I keep them in good condition and wash them in the washer using regular detergent... I dry them as well... no dryer sheets, obviously. Am I doing something wrong with washing them as well?
 
replace towels annually ... most towels do have a lifespan. I wash mine with a dedicated MF towel cleaner like Microrestore and dry with those dryer balls. Never with any other laundry or towels.
 
MotorCity Honda said:
I'd bet money you didn't remove them in the 1st place.

PO87MC (Micro Polish) is a finishing polish, with a cut level of 1. It is suited for "jeweling"/"burnishing" and not removing defects.

To remove the defects you need to step up to a more aggressive polish
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Jason you are on fire today. The man with all the correct answers. :cheers:

Also sounds like you need to get some good quality microfibers, but Jason hit the nail on the head.
 
I agree. Glazes fill alot. You probably never even removed them. They were just hiding.
 
Before and after the micro polish step, I made sure I used the halogen and took pictures...

prepolishSWIRL3.jpg

prepolishSWIRL1.jpg



And POST-POLISH (no glaze, no wax, just polish):

postpolish.jpg


I used Menzerna MicroPolish with a white LC CCS pad at speed 4 for the above pic. So as you can see, I removed the swirls. I mean, granted, perhaps I didn't remove all the swirls esp the ultra fine ones... but still, the micro polish with a cut of 1 still did a hell of a job removing the major swirls.

Sounds to me like it's a combo of:
a) old microfibers - still hard to believe that microfibers that are older but cared for can still "cut" the clear coat and cause swirls... :(
b) perhaps I always had some very fine swirls left after polish. But I still think I got it all though... because isn't that what the micro polish is supposed to remove in the first place? and I made sure I looked at it thoroughly with the halogen...
 
Micro polish did not remove that... trust me.

Next time do a 90% IPA wipedown after you think you removed the swirls... you will be amazed at what you see...
 
MotorCity Honda said:
Micro polish did not remove that... trust me.
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Based on my pictures I just posted, you have to admit it did remove the MAJOR swirls... the pics and my own eyes don't lie... I believe that maybe some ultra fine swirls were still there after the polish... still hard to believe. Because if the polish removed the major swirls, why wouldn't it remove the ultra fine ones? It should be even easier... Maybe I should have run another pass?

The more I think about it... it prolly really is the MF as the culprit :(
 
sportscarhiatus said:
Based on my pictures I just posted, you have to admit it did remove the MAJOR swirls... the pics and my own eyes don't lie...
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Only way to truly find out what was really removed is an IPA wipedown. You will be surprised at how much filling polishes can fill especially when not taken through the entire working cycle of the polish.

So no, without an IPA wipedown I cannot admit that the swirls were removed and from my experience there is NO WAY micro polish & white pad removed that level of swirls.
 
MotorCity Honda said:
Only way to truly find out what was really removed is an IPA wipedown. You will be surprised at how much filling polishes can fill especially when not taken through the entire working cycle of the polish.

So no, without an IPA wipedown I cannot admit that the swirls were removed and from my experience there is NO WAY micro polish & white pad removed that level of swirls.
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I think I have to agree with your statements now. Pardon my hard-headedness since I'm still all new to deswirling/buffing with a DA PC. So basically, I may have gotten a "false" sense of swirl removal... the swirls have improved, no doubt, but I probably still had a few remaining, significant or not. I'll probably use an orange CCS pad next time. I also have a bottle of XMT #3 Intermediate Swirl Remover. Would that have been a better choice? Given the conditions of the swirls now that remain, is it worth going back with an orange pad or continue with the white?

As for the IPA wipedown, is that just Isoprpyl rubbing alcohol and water (50/50) spray and wipe after I polish a section?

And lastly, does this mean that the condition of the MF was likely NOT the culprit???
 
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I would use the IPA straight and find the stongest one you can. Like Jason has said and I added about the IPA wipe downs they need to be done so you know the true conditon of the paint after trying to correct it. SIP likes to fill and some of us on here can tell what will work just by your process, i.e.-Jason telling you they were not removed.

The microfibers could be just part of the problem but alot of the swirls come from incorrect washing technique.
 
ASPHALT ROCKET said:
The microfibers could be just part of the problem but alot of the swirls come from incorrect washing technique.
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I agree with the above statement, but it doesn't apply to me since I have not washed since I polished it... like I said, I just got done doing the polish/buff, then detail sprayed it, then applied sealant... then, my wife drives it the next day then boom, I see the light swirls in the sun. So... I'm just trying to find the culprit for those fine light swirls. And based on the previous posts, it looks like it is more than likely that I never removed them all in the first place, and it is NOT because of my older MF's... True?
 
I see what you mean. I dual action polisher will remove just about any kind of swirling(fine or heavy) unless its filled with RIDs. The fine swirls come from the washing of the car no doubt. I bought for instance a Cobra Waffle Weave drying towel and lemme tell ya, it marks my paint up worse than anything.

I also believe that caked on wax and sealant from previous details gives the look of fine swirls too( if its washed over or even wiped on with a mf towel). Thats why everyone once in a while, i will just use a paint cleaner or clay bar and just really try to get an uncontaminated surface.
 
sportscarhiatus said:
I agree with the above statement, but it doesn't apply to me since I have not washed since I polished it... like I said, I just got done doing the polish/buff, then detail sprayed it, then applied sealant... then, my wife drives it the next day then boom, I see the light swirls in the sun. So... I'm just trying to find the culprit for those fine light swirls. And based on the previous posts, it looks like it is more than likely that I never removed them all in the first place, and it is NOT because of my older MF's... True?
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I am sure the swirls came from washing and when you tried to take them out you did not remove them completely. You are going to have to go back and polish the vehicle, do your ipa wipedowns to make sure the swirls are gone and then get yourself some better Waffle weaves and micro-fibers. Also the less you have to touch the paint the better off you are.
 
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