Taking the plunge (on a budget), getting a Griot's 6"...how does this plan look?

S2K said:
Oh, I saw a banner on the store site counting down less than an hour now, maybe that is for non forum members.
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Yup they said that was a public 1 day only sale. Two different promotions!:xyxthumbs:
 
Buckskincolt said:
You also might take a look at the Mequiars 105/205 combo. Lots of people like them the best of all polishes and you can get lots of help for their use here because of their popularity.
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I'm a little hesitant to use the 105 based on just how effective and fast people say it can be. I understand once someone knows what they're doing that fast and effective is what you want... but I'd rather start out with something that doesn't work quite as fast. From what I've read #83 and #80 might be better (although slightly lower performance) for me.
 
miceandice said:
I'm a little hesitant to use the 105 based on just how effective and fast people say it can be. I understand once someone knows what they're doing that fast and effective is what you want... but I'd rather start out with something that doesn't work quite as fast. From what I've read #83 and #80 might be better (although slightly lower performance) for me.
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Never used 83 and 80 so I can't help you with them. 105/205 work well, I just have a hard time getting a hologram free finish and end up using something to finish them off. Remember to use a test spot so you get it down then all speed will do is make you job less work but you have to get the final product you want as well. I'm going to have to work more with the 105/205 and try to get them down, I have seen guys do awesome work with it. It's like anything else, time spent equals results acheived....I just have not spent the time because I found the WG combo and it gives me what I'm looking for without any trouble.:dblthumb2:
 
Finally pulled the trigger (missed the 20%, but did get the AGO free shipping).

Here's what I got:

1. GG 6" DA Polisher
2. Optimum Hyper Polish Spray
3. Optimum Finish Polish
4. LC Hydro-tech pads, two tangerine & one crimson
5. Also got some additional duragloss products that I need to refill (#105, #601, #271, and #951)

Thanks for all the advice! I ended up just sticking with the 6" pad for now. And I know the 3 pads I got might not be enough, but I'm going to just give it a shot. I'm looking forward to doing some polishing this weekend.
 
miceandice said:
Finally pulled the trigger (missed the 20%, but did get the AGO free shipping).

Here's what I got:

1. GG 6" DA Polisher
2. Optimum Hyper Polish Spray
3. Optimum Finish Polish
4. LC Hydro-tech pads, two tangerine & one crimson
5. Also got some additional duragloss products that I need to refill (#105, #601, #271, and #951)

Thanks for all the advice! I ended up just sticking with the 6" pad for now. And I know the 3 pads I got might not be enough, but I'm going to just give it a shot. I'm looking forward to doing some polishing this weekend.
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If you have very deep swirls you will end up needing a couple cyan pads as well. The Tangerine's don't have that much cut......We will see, haven't used the Optimum polish sprays but so far they get good reviews. You've got a basic start but a good one and you can build from here. post some pictures and let us know how it goes.
 
Buckskincolt said:
If you have very deep swirls you will end up needing a couple cyan pads as well. The Tangerine's don't have that much cut......We will see, haven't used the Optimum polish sprays but so far they get good reviews. You've got a basic start but a good one and you can build from here. post some pictures and let us know how it goes.
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Will do. To my untrained eye I don't have any major correction to do, so here's to hoping it turns out just right.
 
*Update*

Just finished my first polishing session. I taped down the middle of the hood and went after half and my results are... underwhelming (but much, much better than "Uh oh=, there's no clear coat left" :xyxthumbs:)

Here's how it went:
1. Wash & dry
2. Clay bar and rinse
3. Optimum polish hyper spray with a tangerine 6.5" LC Hydro-tech pad. Started at speed 4 (I've got a Griot's), ended up using 5.
4. Wiped it down with a microfiber and some 50/50 water/ipa, then switched to a crimson hydro-tech and Optimum finish polish.
5. Finished it off with duragloss 601/105

Now, as for the results - pictures will be coming (cloudy day, can't really see anything). My 1 and 1/2 hours of work definitely resulted in an improvement in the paint, but not to a satisfactory level, imho. I do not think time was a factor. I went slowly and made many passes, cleaned my pad and reapplied, and made many more passes.

I was successful in removing the light swirl marks (circular but not really with round sides, more like hexagons) and it certainly looks better, but there are still swirl marks all over the paint. To sum it up, when I look at the hood I can tell which side I did, but your average joe probably could not.

So, what should my next step be? I have some ScratchX 2.0, but I've not seen any reports of successful use with a DA. Meg's Ultimate Compound is easily available OTC, should I go to that? I'd like to stick with the tangerine pads I have, so a more aggressive product is more agreeable to me than a different pad.

Are there any other more aggressive OTC products that'll get me through this initial polish (before I need enough resupply to get AGO free shipping :props:)?
 
I think the Hyper Compound spray is is a fairly aggressive product. As I think I said in a earlier post, I believe you will need a more aggressive pad. There is a huge difference between the cut of pads. I think the OHCS uses a SMAT abrasive so the change in cut is controlled by the pad you use. I have and like the LC HT pads. You need the cyan pads if you want to get deeper swirls. Using the Crimson pad for anything but Jeweling or applying LSP is not going to give you much correction if any.

Also did you put marks on your backing plate to be sure you kept rotation on the pad? You need to keep the pad flat, put moderate pressure on the polisher but keep the pads rotating. I would urge you to buy a couple cyan pads and use good technique and I think you will be much happier with your results.

I think you are suffering a little from the beginners fear (I DID) that you will polish the paint right off your car. With a machine like the Griot's RO it is difficult if you have good paint. To get swirls out you must remove paint. I think if you did a 2'x2' test spot with the Cyan and the hyper compound followed by the Op finish polish on a Tangerine you will be much happier. You never said how many panel passes you did. when you do the above test do maybe 2 passes of the cyan and HC then do a IPA wipe and see if thats enough once the swirls are gone them follow with the polish and the Tangerine to get a good final gloss. In a nut shell you need a more aggressive pad not product IMHO. Maybe Mike will chime in here as I have not used the Optimum Sprays.
 
Did you mark your backing plate with a permanent marker and then watched to make sure the pad was rotating all the time?

You need to be on the 5.0 to 6.0 speed setting and from the sounds up it you need to bump up to the 6.0 speed setting.

You need to apply firm downward pressure, to remove swirls you want to push down firm enough that the motor will bog down and you'll see the pad slow down in it's rotation but still rotating.

You need a more aggressive pad and a more aggressive product

Make sure you're only tackling a section about 20" square or so... the more difficulty you're experiencing removing swirls the smaller the section your work.

Ultimate Compound is probably the best other the counter compound money can buy and it's a SMAT products, it's more than able to tackle anything you should be tackling with a Griot's Garage ROP and your experience level.

Everything, that is every technique you need to do is explained in this single video... how to do a section pass...



How to do a Section Pass​
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q70g83mnTn4]YouTube - How to do a "Section Pass" with a Porter Cable 7424XP[/video]


The best way to learn exact technique would be to attend this class....

Detailing 101 - Machine Polishing - Saturday September 18th

And then you can do this the first time out...


Proof You Can Do It! - Joe The Detailer - Black Porsche Turned into Black Pearl!


:)
 
After teaching hundreds of detailing classes on using DA Polishers, there are some common mistakes most people make when trying to remove swirls and scratches with a dual action polisher. Most of them have to do with technique.

Here's something I wrote back in 2005...

Mike Phillips said:
How To use: G110 - G220 - G100 - PC/Porter Cable - UDM
If you're moving up to machine polishing, be sure to read the below thread before starting...
Tips & Techniques for using the G110, G100, G220 and the PC Dual Action Polisher
(These are all similar tools)




Here's a list of the most common problems
  1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time.
  2. Move the polisher too fast over the surface.
  3. Too low of speed setting for removing swirls.
  4. Too little pressure on the head of the unit.
  5. Too much pressure on the head of the unit so the pad quits rotating.
  6. Not keeping the pad flat while working your product.
  7. Too much product, too little product.
  8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.
Here's a list of the solutions in matching order,
  1. Shrink your work area down, the harder the paint the smaller the area you can work. The average area should be and average of about 16" by 16" up to 20" by 20" or so. You have to do some experimenting, (called a Test Spot), to find out how easy or how hard the defects are coming out of your car's paint system and then adjust your work area to the results of your Test Spot.
  2. For removing defects out of the paint you want to use what we call a Slow Arm Speed. It's really easy to move the polisher too quickly because the sound of the motor spinning fast has a psychological effect to for some reason want to make people move the polisher fast. Also the way most people think is that, "If I move the polisher quickly, I'll get done faster", but it doesn't work that way.
  3. When first starting out many people are scared of burning or swirling their paint, so they take the safe route of running the polisher at too low of a speed setting, again... this won't work. The action of the polisher is already g-e-n-t-l-e, you need the speed and specifically the pad rotating over the paint as well as the combination of time, (slow arm speed), together with the diminishing abrasives, the foam type, and the pressure to remove small particles of paint which is how your remove below surface defects like swirls or scratches. It's a leveling process that's somewhat difficult because the tool is safe/gentle while in most cases, modern clear coat paints are harder than traditional single stage paints and this makes them hard to work on. This is also why people get frustrated, they don't understand paint technology, all they know is their paint swirls easy and getting the swirls out is difficult and thus frustrating.
  4. For the same reason as stated in #3, people are scared, or perhaps a better word is apprehensive, to apply too much pressure and the result of too little pressure is no paint is removed thus no swirls are removed.
  5. Just the opposite of item #4, people think that by pushing harder on the polisher they can work faster and be more aggressive, but the truth is the clutch in the tool is a safety mechanism to prevent burning and will cause the pad to stop rotating, thus less cleaning or abrading action and once in a while this will lead a person to then post on the forum something like this, "Hey my pad doesn't rotate". There needs to be a balance of enough pressure to remove defects and keep the pad rotating but yet not too much pressure as to stop the rotating action. This balance is affected by a lot of things, things like type of chemical, some chemicals provide more lubrication and the pad will spin easier, curved surfaces or any raise in body lines will tend to stop the pad from rotating. This is where experience on how to address these areas comes into play or you do the best you can and move on. It's not a perfect tool, nor a perfect system, but it's almost always better than working/cleaning by hand.
  6. Applying pressure in such a way as to put too much pressure to one side of the pad will cause it to stop rotating and thus decrease cleaning ability.
  7. Too much product over lubricates the surface and this won't allow the diminishing abrasives to do their job plus it will increase the potential for messy splatter as well as cause pad saturation. Too little product will keep the pad from rotating due to no lubrication and there won't be enough diminishing abrasives to do any work. Again it's a balance that comes with experience, or another way of saying this would be it's a balance that comes with hours of buffing out a car to learn what to do and what not to do. Information like what you're reading here is just an edge to decrease your learning curve. Hope this is helping.
  8. Most people don't clean their pad often enough and most of the time the reason for this is because they don't know they're supposed to clean their pad often and they don't know how to clean their pad. Again, that's why this forum is here to help you with both of these things. You should clean your pad after every application of product or every other application of product, your choice, most of the time cleaning your pad after every other application of product works pretty well. It enables you to work clean and enables the foam pad, the polisher and the next application of fresh product too all work effectively. How to clean your pad will be addressed below sooner versus later, but not at the time of this posting. (Sorry, I'm behind a keyboard, not a video camera
The first 4 are the most common.
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Read through the above list of problems and solutions, if you're doing EVERYTHING right, then you need a more aggressive pad and product.


:)
 
I'm thinking the same thing as Mike. Make sure the pad is rotating and not just wiggling. Mark the backing plate with a marker, like so:
polish-2.gif
 
Wow, thanks for all the all the quick replies! I'll try to address all the suggestions and questions.

Here goes on the technique: First thing I did was mark the backing plate with a sharpie (thanks for the awesome how-to videos), so I did verify the whole time it was rotating. However, I did not apply much pressure more than the weight of the DA and my hand guiding it by the head. So excellent point, that's definitely an area I can immediately improve.

I did what I'd consider to be many passes over the areas I was working - at least as many in any of the videos I've seen.

Did I use too much or too little product? I'd pick too much, if I had to pick one. I will admit I was possibly too focused on the possibility I wasn't getting enough lubrication.

I did clean as I went using the method of blotting with a terry cloth towel, then using my finger in the towel with the DA rotating to rub it from the edge to the center.

Thank you all for the solid points to improve on. On to the pad/product options: Buckskincolt, I am hesitant (as you suspected) to use a too aggressive pad. The conventional wisdom here seems to be go more aggressive on the product and less on the pad. Is this not true with more modern SMAT products?

Mike or Buckskincolt, if retrying what I've got (tangerine HT w/Hyper Polish Spray) with improved technique doesn't yield the results I want, would trying Meg's ultimate compound with the tangerine pads be an acceptable option? Or should I just bite the bullet and get a more aggressive pad to go with the Hyper Polish? (and I take from no responses about it that the ScratchX 2.0 is a no-go with a DA?)
 
One more thing I forgot... is the crimson HT pad not a good match with Optimum Finish - should I be using it with a tangerine pad?
 
With a DA I like LC Flat pads 5.5". I have not tried the Hydro Pads yet. If you want to stick to a 1 step product I would go with Meg D151.
 
miceandice said:
Mike or Buckskincolt, if retrying what I've got (tangerine HT w/Hyper Polish Spray) with improved technique doesn't yield the results I want, would trying Meg's ultimate compound with the tangerine pads be an acceptable option?
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Definitely try more pressure... firm downward pressure is key because it's the downward pressure that engages the abrasives with the paint causing them to take little bites out of the paint. No pressure, no engagement.

miceandice said:
Or should I just bite the bullet and get a more aggressive pad to go with the Hyper Polish? (and I take from no responses about it that the ScratchX 2.0 is a no-go with a DA?)
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ScratchX can be used with a DA no problem, if you have some give it a try.

The swirls on page one of this tread look very shallow, they shouldn't be hard to remove. If nothing else get the UC like you mentioned.


:)
 
miceandice said:
Thank you all for the solid points to improve on. On to the pad/product options: Buckskincolt, I am hesitant (as you suspected) to use a too aggressive pad. The conventional wisdom here seems to be go more aggressive on the product and less on the pad. Is this not true with more modern SMAT products?
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If you read all the people here who use the Meg 105/205 they use different pads to change the cut. The SMAT compounds don't break down as you use it so what you start cutting with is what you end cutting with. So the only ways to increase cut is by technique change (more pressure on the pad at a higher speed to keep it rotating) or a more aggressive pad.

miceandice said:
Mike or Buckskincolt, if retrying what I've got (tangerine HT w/Hyper Polish Spray) with improved technique doesn't yield the results I want, would trying Meg's ultimate compound with the tangerine pads be an acceptable option? Or should I just bite the bullet and get a more aggressive pad to go with the Hyper Polish? (and I take from no responses about it that the ScratchX 2.0 is a no-go with a DA?)
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First let me say Mike is the expert here and you should listen to him, I'm just a hobbyist that enjoys detailing and making cars look like they should. I have no experience with ScratchX but I would think you can use it with a DA. Hopefully Mike will chime in here, I don't know how the Hyper Polish Spray cut compares to the cut of Meg's Ultimate compound, and what the gain would be?
After reading your process I would say you will get much better results using a higher speed and much more pressure.

miceandice said:
One more thing I forgot... is the crimson HT pad not a good match with Optimum Finish - should I be using it with a tangerine pad?
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I still maintain you need Cyan pads for the Hyper Compound and Tangerine for the OFS, but a good technique test spot will confirm this. When you use the crimson pad with the OFS you are only using the cut of the spray the Crimson pad has no cut so at best this would be a final Jeweling process to get that last little bit of shine.
Here is Autogeek's description of the intended use for the crimson pad.
"The crimson foam is designed to apply waxes, glazes, and sealants in flawless, even coats without causing swirls. The soft foam has no cutting ability. It simply serves as an applicator pad. Since the crimson pad is made of Hydro-Tech foam, it does not soak up liquid waxes and paint sealants like some finishing pads can. You'll be able to cover more paint with less product. The crimson pad is a great choice to apply Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0."
 
Thank you all for the all the great suggestions. I had much better success with more pressure and speed 6. I Got all but the deepest swirls out, and I'm happy with that. And once I got it in the sun, the half of the hood I did with my first underwhelming attempt looked pretty good itself; much better than I initially thought when viewing under the harsher garage lights.

I will post some pictures when I can. Only did the hood and the front half of the passenger side. So a lot more polishing time (and learning time) to go. I really see how a 5.5" pad will be a slight step up in performance.

The toughest thing I now have to get the hang of is cleaning the pads. I tried the terry cloth method, soaking in all purpose cleaner, and spent a lot of time squeezing and agitating (with my hands) under hot running water. But whatever I try I can't seem to get all the product out - the pads still retain that slightly slimy/slippery feeling indicating product still remains (especially with the crimson HT I used with Optimum Finish). On the other hand, I had great success using the dryer on 'very low' for 20 minutes. It got all three pads quite dry with no visible damage. For good measure I let them sit in the sun for a couple hours.
 
 
3Guy said:
Mike,

Based on this advice, I ordered this backing plate and a variety of 5.5 inch pad, and just received my order, and I'm a bit puzzled.

The Griot 6" polisher's pad is secured with 4 screws - the 5" backing plate has a 5/16" spindle - is there a way to use the plate on this polisher?

If so, can you tell me how to do it?

Thanks
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Hang on I think I have a picture...


:)
 
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