technique vs tool selection

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nakranij

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When is technique more important than tool selection (when it comes to polishers/buffers).

I am interested in this because it can go both ways. Over the past 30 years our tools have become more refined, accurate and forgiving, but does an over priced tool compensate for proper technique? For instance if you gave a cheap 6 inch random orbital polisher and a "luxury" or premium random orbital polisher to them, do you really think that the luxury tool will get them any better results than the cheap one?

Then have that person with zero experience polish 20 cars, have much better technique and then have them try both polishers a second time. Do you think that luxury tool will make any difference considering they have a better idea what they are doing and their technique has improved over 20 cars?

For instance. Lets look at drills.... you have black and decker, Craftsman, dewalt, milwaukee, makita, etc and probably 25 other off brands. Lets look at "premium drills" Like Dewalt, Milwaukee, and Makita.

They all make top notch tools and each manufacturer is going to have lemons in the batch, but over all they are top of the line cream of the crop tools and for under $200 you have buy into 18v cordless versions with brushless motors.

So what makes an orbital polisher with an old school motor and a power cord worth $400 ++ ?

for me, I don't care how good their reputation is.... There is no orbital polisher worth more than $200, anything more than that, you are paying money for hype.

There is 1 exception in my power tools..... A 3/4 inch drive impact wrench that is 18v which will pull lugs off of commercial vehicles. But I can't see a polisher costing an insane amount of money unless it polishes the vehicle by itself...
 
Technique is important and tool type is too.

Let's say you have a total newbie who has never even heard of a polisher before. You can teach him in about 30 minutes how to properly use a DA and he should be able to produce good results. With more experience you can refine it, be able to work faster and produce better results.

When it comes to tools, the basic 8mm polisher will never be able to compete with a long throw or forced rotation DA when it comes to speed of correction. You can take the best polisher in the world, give him a Porter Cable and take the newbie and give him a Rupes 21mm and the newbie will be able to do the job faster. When you get to super hard clearcoats, it's even more evident, the 8mm will simply not be able to get any work done. The 21mm will struggle but will be able to make a dent and a rotary will be able to correct the paint.

Making an abitrary decision that X amount of money is the most you should spend really depends on what you need the tool for. If you tell me that you are an enthousists who will use the tool to work only on his own car with soft paint, I see nothing wrong with it. If you are a professional who will make more money by saving time on each job, then I completelly disagree with you. Let's say I can save 1 hour on each polishing job, and 2 hours on each paint correction job using a 500$ tool. It won't take long at 50$ per hour for the tool to pay for itself. Also these tools are usually less damaging to your hands and wrists by having lower vibration and not fighting you as much (except the forced rotation ones I guess).
 
Well I look at it's the technique that you use with the given tools, technique usually trumps all. I will say thought that imho that yes you can do a great job with a Porter Canle with pads and chemicals from 10 years ago but with the newer big throw and gear driven tools it's easier, more efficient and more consistent in results.

Your take on anything over $200 is your opinion but being a carpenter by trade you're limiting yourself, I work with plenty of guys stuck in the past that use a 15lb saw with less revs because they believe ( from experience) that what they are using the best. I on the other hand will choose a lighter saw that revs more because it's easier on me, my mind and faster.

There's no question in my mind the newer tools are better, I'm getting too old to beat myself in the head anymore
 
In the hands of a professional or serious enthusiast, the pairing of a new tech tool, pads, and abrasives will net better results faster.

I think a seasoned veteran on standard tool (and a newbie on a new tech tool with the same pads and abrasives) will get better results faster.
 
I'll never forget a statement made by a photography teacher a long time ago...

"There is no such thing as a 'professional' camera, it's the user".
 
I always think technique is the most important. The tools just compliment the technique!
 
Paul A. said:
I'll never forget a statement made by a photography teacher a long time ago...

"There is no such thing as a 'professional' camera, it's the user".
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I like this! I also believe this is true...look how long we've been getting excellent results with an 'old' PC!
 
Sizzle Chest said:
I like this! I also believe this is true...look how long we've been getting excellent results with an 'old' PC!
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Until your client brings you a Mercedes and your most agressive compound and Micro-fiber pad does absolutelly nothing to it.
 
If nobody bought the $400 polishers the people selling the $200 polishers would have nothing to copy or no intellectual property to steal. Then there would be no $200 polishers.
 
Calendyr said:
Until your client brings you a Mercedes and your most agressive compound and Micro-fiber pad does absolutelly nothing to it.
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Then it'd be time to break out the other 'oldie'...the rotary!
 
I can achieve show car results with a cheap DA polisher for sure.

Doing detailing for money, time is money for me. So I can take my $430 polisher and end up with the exact same results as a $50 DA. But the $50 polisher takes me 3 more hours to complete the task.

Again using these tools for profit, I can use my $400 polisher and feel less fatigue since it is way smoother. Same results as the $50 polisher again. But less wear and tear on my body physically over the course of time.

So are the more expensive tools worth it?? For me yes! The individual purchasing the tool has the final vote on that answer. I feel a better ? Is “is a more expensive tool worth it to ME” and let the individual decide for his/herself!


Technique doesn’t make a difference as you want to master each individual tool and use it to its full capabilities each time.
 
Technique is good but at some point you may need some more help and need to save time.

Going from using a PC 7424 for 13 years to a Boss 21 saved me a lot of time on major jobs, a long with way less fatigue. If you have good technique and perfect with a PC, imagine a machine with a 21mm throw!

To me the upgrade was worth it.
 
I think its the abrasives today where the most advancements have taken place. I think they outweigh the tools. As long as you use proper technique you can get the same result with a PC. OP never said anything about the amount of time it takes, which just about everyone mentioned.
 
DBAILEY said:
I think its the abrasives today where the most advancements have taken place. I think they outweigh the tools. As long as you use proper technique you can get the same result with a PC. OP never said anything about the amount of time it takes, which just about everyone mentioned.
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I agree with this.

As long as someone is using quality abrasives they’re pretty much guaranteed showcar results if they really want them.

I think technique really only matters for niche situations, like the video Ammo NYC put out about diluting m205 because the paint was supremely soft on that Porsche. That entire video was ridiculous, imo. I wasn’t present, but there’s no way swapping to a product that’s better suited to that paint would have not been worth it.

If technique mattered as much as some imply, Mike Phillips wouldn’t be able to teach class after class and have people leaving able to achieve show car results with just a couple days of polishing experience.

I think as products continue to advance, technique just matters less and less. I think what really matters is experience and the ability to critically think about what you’re seeing as you try to figure out what works so that you can dial in the combo you want to use.

But then you’re getting in to technique vs experience, and I think at that point you can potentially start splitting hairs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
No doubt...the refinement of the abrasives in products has improved the results overall. I am in full agreement (now) with what Mike P. successfully discussed on that point in a poll thread a couple years ago. It is the single most important factor when compared to machine, pad, technique etc. As he pointed out, it's the abrasives that touch and work the paint.

Getting back to what nakranij was asking...does a quality TOOL make a difference. Basically, can it make up for less than ideal technique?

In my opinion, not entirely. Bad technique with a PC 7424 and then a Rupes on side by side test sections will probably look similar. However I do strongly agree with Dr Oldz and 392Hemi in that they are time savers for me. I can get much better results in a shorter amount of time, AND I'm less fatigued at the end. Sure, I could've stuck to my PC and used all the advances in pad and product (abrasive) advancements and gotten great results over the current years however it's easier for me (and on me) to progress to a $400 machine that is more refined. I can extract a much more refined end result in less time.

There is also the intangible benefit of machine "feel". Even the inexperienced will feel a difference in the PC and then the Rupes.

Having said all that, I will also say the more expensive machines are not only for the business pro's but weekend, personal car detailers as well. If you enjoy polishing paint, I think you'll enjoy it more with a refined machine. That's not to say the Harbor Freight won't get the job done, it'll just take a little more work to get you where you want to be with your paint finish. Plus they help you refine your technique. Plus you realy feel the difference when you first experience that $400 machine!

Just my thoughts, nakranij...
 
Dr Oldz said:
Doing detailing for money, time is money for me. So I can take my $430 polisher and end up with the exact same results as a $50 DA. But the $50 polisher takes me 3 more hours to complete the task.
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Totally agree.

A gear-driven orbital is so much faster than any brand of free spinning orbital.



DBAILEY said:
I think its the abrasives today where the most advancements have taken place.
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Totally agree.

Been doing this all my life now. I can remember the compounds, polishes and cleaner/waxes BEFORE modern basecoat/clearcoats were invented and back then it wasn't that good. The best products before the 1980s were the old Meguiar's numbers #1, #2 and #4 and the #6 and #19 - Some of you won't even know what I'm talking/typing about. :laughing:

(I have all of the above in my antique wax collection)



Finick said:
As long as someone is using quality abrasives they’re pretty much guaranteed showcar results if they really want them.
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Totally agree.

I've taught young kids and seasoned members of our society how to get pro result their very first time machine polishing so they don't have any experience and the only technique that have is what I shared with them seconds before turning the polisher on.



Paul A. said:
No doubt...the refinement of the abrasives in products has improved the results overall.
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No amount of technique, or pad choice or even tool choice can make bad abrasive technology good.

The picture in this article tells the story....


Abrasive Technology - THE most important factor when it comes to polishing paint


:)
 
Thank you everyone, good points and I didn't mention the abrasives because those have changed allot over the years also.
 
nakranij said:
So what makes an orbital polisher with an old school motor and a power cord worth $400 ++ ?
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There’s an issue with your thesis as the $400+ orbital polishers are purpose-built for a smaller customer base. Therefor, economies of scale come into play. Yes, anyone can visit a big box home improvement store and walk away with a power drill, but you will not see Flex or Rupes orbitals on display for purchase.
 
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