The Difference Between a Cleaner/Wax and a Finishing Wax

emaxxman said:
Interesting on the cleaning ability of NXT. I had KSG on my car over the winter and was going to top it off with NXT. I didn't use the NXT 2.0 because I was afraid that it would remove it. I didn't read the labeling on the 2.0 though.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind, it's not just the product... it's also...

Application material
Application process

That is there's a huge difference in applying "any" product with a soft foam applicator pad versus a Scotchbrite pad.

There's a huge difference between applying "any" product using your hand versus a rotary buffer.

You can adjust the aggressiveness or "non-aggressiveness" of any product to make it do what you want it to do by tweaking your application material and process.

I've seen people use NXT to remove oxidation on an oxidized single stage paint job but I can do this with spit and a piece of terry cloth by hand. The product is still meant to be used on a finish in good to excellent condition and if the paint is neglected best results will come from pre-cleaning and polishing the paint first.


KSG is a very interesting product... it's not like any other sealant I've ever played with, note I'm not saying this to mean positive or negative, just interesting...

I think any liquid product rubbed against it except for another coat of itself would tend to remove it whether it has cleaners or not...

Some people like topping it with a Carnauba wax versus a synthetic like NXT

I wrote on article on "Topping NXT" on MOL back in 2005 (I think), the principals I outlined in that article actually apply to topping "anything" with "anything"


:)
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
KSG is a very interesting product... it's not like any other sealant I've ever played with, note I'm not saying this to mean positive or negative, just interesting...
Click to expand...

Can you expand on that? I currently have only been using the Klasse twins on the DD's I have done, so I don't have any experience with other products as of yet. I am curious to know in what ways you find KSG interesting.
 
I find it interesting how you put FK 2180 into the Cleaner Wax bracket and FK 218 into the Finishing Sealant bracket when on the FK 218 product page, it says

Finish Kare 218 Poly Wipe Sealant Conditioner is similar to Finish Kare Ultra Polymer Sealant but with more cleaning ability.
Click to expand...

Is 2180 stronger than I've been lead to believe?
 
Hi Mike. Great post! Couple of questions (sorry if I missed the answers above but I don't think I did):

I currently do: ONR/clay/KAIO/845. Would it be worthwhile to add a sealant between the KAIO/845 (something like Wolfgang Deep Gloss Sealant, KSG or Opti-Seal?) Would it increase the durability and length of protection? Or if I'm topping with 845 anyway, no need for the sealant?

Also, where does Poor Boys Black Hole fit in? Is it an AIO or a finishing sealant? If it's an AIO, would it be better than KAIO for a black car?

Thanks!
 
newb001 said:
Hi Mike. Great post! Couple of questions (sorry if I missed the answers above but I don't think I did):

I currently do: ONR/clay/KAIO/845. Would it be worthwhile to add a sealant between the KAIO/845 (something like Wolfgang Deep Gloss Sealant, KSG or Opti-Seal?) Would it increase the durability and length of protection? Or if I'm topping with 845 anyway, no need for the sealant?

Also, where does Poor Boys Black Hole fit in? Is it an AIO or a finishing sealant? If it's an AIO, would it be better than KAIO for a black car?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I think black hole is a glaze...which helps out with those RIDS that you cant quite get rid of (no pun intended). I believe it would come after you have done any correction but before you seal/wax. It has fillers which help to hide those scratches that compounding/polishing didnt get out.
 
Re: How To Choose The Right Wax or Paint Sealant

Sorry...Pushed the wrong key!
 
newb001 said:
Hi Mike. Great post! Couple of questions (sorry if I missed the answers above but I don't think I did):

I currently do: ONR/clay/KAIO/845. Would it be worthwhile to add a sealant between the KAIO/845 (something like Wolfgang Deep Gloss Sealant, KSG or Opti-Seal?)

Would it increase the durability and length of protection? Or if I'm topping with 845 anyway, no need for the sealant?
Click to expand...


Good question...

The thought on forums like this is that when you top a synthetic paint sealant with a Carnauba based car wax that

A. The sealant will stick to the paint
B. The Carnauba Wax will stick to the sealant
C. After the Carnauba wax wears off the sealant will still be on the surface to provide protection until you detail the car again.


At least that's the theory...

Another way to look at it would be to put your car on a regular maintenance program and re-wax or seal the paint before all the protection is worn off, call it preventative maintenance. Kind of like an oil change in that you don't drive a car till all the oil is gone and then add more... you replace the oil before it's past maximum performance with fresh oil.


newb001 said:
Also, where does Poor Boys Black Hole fit in?

Is it an AIO or a finishing sealant? If it's an AIO, would it be better than KAIO for a black car?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Cleaner/Polish or Cleaner/Glaze.

I asked Steve at Poorboys if this product was Body Shop Safe, that is it contains no ingredients that would cause surface adhesion problems in a body shop and he told me it was body shop safe.

Waxes, paint sealants, basically any type of "protection ingredient" in a paint care product will tend to make water bead up.

If a product makes water bead up then it would be a no-no to take it into a body shop or fresh paint environment because it can contaminate the shop and possibly get onto panels or car bodies before being painted and then cause surface adhesion problems.

One common surface adhesion problem is called Fish Eyes. Fish Eyes is where there's some type of contaminant on a panel before the panel is painted that causes surface tension which shows up as the paint trying to get away from the contaminant and thus you get a Fish Eye in the paint.

Same idea with a wax or paint sealant, if the protection ingredients create surface tension you get water beading as the water try to get away from the surface. If it can't get away it piles up.

Thus any product that causes surface tension, (car waxes and paint sealants and even coatings in this day and age), would NOT be Body Shop Safe.

I used Poorboy's Black Hole Glaze and noticed how it didn't wash off the paint easily so I called him and asked him if it was body shop safe and he said yes. Since he said "yes", I assume the product doesn't contain any "protection ingredients" and thus it's not a cleaner/wax but a cleaner/polish or cleaner/glaze.

It has the ability to remove a little bit of the defects and the ability to fill in a little bit of the defects but it's not a wax or paint sealant.


See my article here too...

Word Definitions - Compounds, Polishes, Glazes, Paint Cleaners and Waxes



:)
 
This thread is like a encyclopedia. I can Lear so much just from here.
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
Good question...

The thought on forums like this is that when you top a synthetic paint sealant with a Carnauba based car wax that

A. The sealant will stick to the paint
B. The Carnauba Wax will stick to the sealant
C. After the Carnauba wax wears off the sealant will still be on the surface to provide protection until you detail the car again.


At least that's the theory...
<snip>

, Glazes, Paint Cleaners and Waxes



:)
Click to expand...
So much great information, so little time to absorb.. Thank you for helping us all.

Couple questions about the above theory..
I interpret the theory to mean that
A. Sealant last longer than Carnauba and
B. You put Carnauba over it for the Carnauba effect.. ie better / different shine or glossiness.
C. Autogeek product pages state flat out that Sealants can't match Carnauba for ultimate shine. "A Carnauba wax is the only way to go for protecting your car’s finish. This is the wax of choice for show car owners. It offers the best-looking deep, wet shine of any wax, bar none." Poorboy's World Polish with 100% Carnauba, Poorboys Polish Wax, polish with carnauba wax

My questions are:
1. If sealants don't produce the best shine, but are put directly on the paint and topped with carnauba, Doesn't this create a "Hybrid" shine? better than a sealant maybe but less than Carnauba since the carnauba is in effect enhancing the shine of whatever the sealant has produced?

2. If I have properly prepared my paint, why wouldn't I just layer say Collinite 915 and skip a WGDGPS (for example) undercoat? would seem to satisfy kiss method..

I just want to winterize my car and I have an abundance of elbow grease to do it with but am obviously confused about layering. I want the best carnauba shine I can get with a serious dose of toughness to protect it long ways into the winter. Thing is, I'd rather use the fewest products needed to get this result..

Thanks for any and all advice along these lines! :)
 
JeepGeek said:
My questions are:
1. If sealants don't produce the best shine, but are put directly on the paint and topped with carnauba, Doesn't this create a "Hybrid" shine? better than a sealant maybe but less than Carnauba since the carnauba is in effect enhancing the shine of whatever the sealant has produced?
Click to expand...

I don't know about that...

Keep in mind, we're living in a time when paint sealants do create incredibly clear and high gloss results as do coatings...

All but the hood of this car has M21 Synthetic Sealant on it...

Pictures & Videos: 2006 Mustang by Ford - Show Car Shine by Autogeek!

Brandons2006Mustang012.jpg




This Mustang has a "coating" on it...

Video & Pictures: 1965 Fastback Mustang - Gtechniq EXO Show Car Makeover!

65Stang031.jpg






JeepGeek said:
2. If I have properly prepared my paint, why wouldn't I just layer say Collinite 915 and skip a WGDGPS (for example) undercoat? would seem to satisfy kiss method..
Click to expand...

Works for me. Choosing and using a wax, sealant or coating tends to be a personal preference issue as beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I always say,

"Find something you like and use it often"



JeepGeek said:
I just want to winterize my car and I have an abundance of elbow grease to do it with but am obviously confused about layering. I want the best carnauba shine I can get with a serious dose of toughness to protect it long ways into the winter. Thing is, I'd rather use the fewest products needed to get this result..

Thanks for any and all advice along these lines! :)
Click to expand...

You are experiencing the same thing we all experience, that is choosing the best product for our needs... there's never going to be a pat answer for everyone and I certainly don't want to tell anyone exactly what they will like.

Pick something you're interested in, something you've researched and has a good brand name and reputation and you'll be good to go...

Remember, anything that lands on your car's finish that's strong or corrosive enough to etch or harm the paint will strong or corrosive enough to obliterate whatever you put on it. Spend more time driving your wheels instead of spinning your wheels...

:)
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
I don't know about that...

Keep in mind, we're living in a time when paint sealants do create incredibly clear and high gloss results as do coatings...
Click to expand...
So basically, sealant and carnaubas are on equal footings even at the highest levels. Thanks for cutting through the marketing hype!
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
All but the hood of this car has M21 Synthetic Sealant on it...
Click to expand...
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
This Mustang has a "coating" on it...
Click to expand...
Simply STUNNING WORK!! :wow:
Dumb question time.. Why not the hood with M21?


Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
Works for me.
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Ok I'll give it a shot that way for this winter. I still don't understand why sealant is topped with Carnauba but i'm not gonna worry about it and just get something done.

Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
You are experiencing the same thing we all experience, that is choosing the best product for our needs... there's never going to be a pat answer for everyone and I certainly don't want to tell anyone exactly what they will like.

Pick something you're interested in, something you've researched and has a good brand name and reputation and you'll be good to go...
<snip>:)
Click to expand...
I would take any suggestion from you as trusted advice not mandates so PLEASE feel free to make me a better informed end user any time.

Appreciate the information and I've proudly placed my first orders with Autogeek !
:cheers:
 
JeepGeek said:
Dumb question time.. Why not the hood with M21?
Click to expand...

We did put M21 on the hood, we then put the M26 over the top of it. We didn't put M26 over the entire car because,

A: You're supposed to wait 12 to 24 hours before topping a sealant so you don't disrupt the previously applied protection ingredients allowing them to fully dry/set-up/cure/crosslink/polymerize etc. (whatever magic they do on the surface, only the chemist knows for sure)


B: We don't have the luxury of "time" during our Thursday Night Live Broadcasts.


Here's my article on topping...

Topping - Definition - How to Top also called Topping


Note just because I have an article on the practice and show how to do it means I endorse the practice. I'm more of a do a good job with one coat, or apply two coats of the same product kind of guy.

Sometimes I write articles just to help others do a procedure without screwing it up.


:D
 
There are many steps involved in keeping an automobile looking it's best. Auto detailing can be done by a professional or at home. it may involve protective measures that a keep a car looking new or taking steps to eliminate scratches, dents and other blemishes after they've occurred. Car polished and waxing are important to auto detailing and each one serves a purpose.
What is Wax?

Car wax comes in two main forms: liquid and paste. It may be made from natural wax, but is mostly synthetic. Paste-type wax is the traditional car wax. It is applied to add a protective layer on top of a car's paint and clear coat. This layer of wax adds shine to the car's appearance and protects the paint job itself from the elements, causing water to bead up and slide off. Wax also filters ultraviolet light and prevents the color of a car from fading over time. Wax also helps delay the onset of oxidation by forming a physical barrier between the metal of the car and the salts, oils and other contaminants the car is exposed to during driving and storage.

Liquid wax functions in a way similar to paste wax, but is produced in a thinner form. With both types of wax, the application process involves rubbing the wax onto the surface of the car and then, once it has tried to a dull luster, removing it by rubbing with a clean cloth. The portion of the wax that stays behind provides the glossy shine and typically lasts for several months before wearing off.

What is Polish?

Car polish is a liquid applied to painted surfaces to eliminate scratches and dirt. It does this by containing abrasive elements that scrub the paint surface, actually removing a thin layer of the car's paint job. Additional solid components in the polish settle into fine scratches and minimize their appearance by reflecting light and making them blend into the rest of the surface. Most car polishes contain wax to help produce the desired glossy appearance.

Polish can be applied by hand or using a power polisher or buffer with a soft cloth attachment. Many products exist for turning power drills and other power tools into polishers. Most manufacturers of car polish advise applying several coats with lessening degrees of pressure, gradually minimizing the appearance of imperfections in the car's surfaces.

Similarities and Differences

While car wax and polish are used to achieve a glossy, clean appearance, they function in different ways. While waxing a car adds a layer of protectant, polishing removes a layer, eliminating dirt but also thinning the top coat of paint. Oftentimes, wax will be applied after polish to restore any protective layer that has been lost and protect the newly smoothed surface.

Car polish is generally thinner than wax, being sold as a thin liquid or as a liquid spray. Once applied, polish does not need to be removed as wax does, but excess polish should be wiped off to prevent streaking and running.

While most car wax serves the same purpose, polishes are sometimes marketed for certain types of paint or even certain colors. Polish specially designed for dark paint colors promises to prevent fading while polish for light cars is intended to keep the colors bright and clean.

How to Choose

The decision to use either polish or wax depends largely on the car itself and the intentions of the owner. Despite myths to the contrary, new cars should be waxed on a regular basis according to manufacturer recommendations. A new car should not be polished (it should not need to be) until it has been driven long enough, or under environmental conditions, so as to have experienced some visible amount of surface scratching or deterioration. Applying wax to a new car every few months can put off the need to apply polish for many years.

For older paint jobs, using polish and wax is preferred when maximum results are desired. If the intent is simply to preserve the paint in its current condition, wax alone is best. Using polish without wax is uncommon since the removal of a layer of paint leaves the car vulnerable to scratches that wax would protect against.

Other Detailing Options

While both car polish and wax are designed to enhance the appearance of a car's paint job, in certain situations it is best to have the car painted. This can be an expensive procedure and may never achieve the same look as when the car was new, but even regular applications of polish and wax cannot preserve a paint job forever. In cases where a small section of a car has been repainted or touched up, using polish and wax can help to blend this section into the rest of the car.
A host of polishes, waxes, and cleaners exist for cleaning and preserving the interior of a car. These vary widely and may be designed to dissolve dirt, add shine or provide a layer of protection from light and heat.

 
stevenKidman said:
There are many steps involved in keeping an automobile looking it's best.

Auto detailing can be done by a professional or at home.
Click to expand...


Did you write the above article or copy and paste it from somewhere?

If you copied and pasted it from somewhere as a professional courtesy to the person that invested the time to think and write the article you really should cite them and give them credit for their work.



:props:
 
So I'm posting on a old thread, but the post with all the products split into their catogories was very helpful. But my head is about to explode from all the product there.

I would like to have 1 go to AIO (preferably cleaner/sealant) on hand at all times. I've always looked at the Klasse AIO, but there are so many of them. How do you choose without having to buy all of them? lol

I looked at McKee's 37 360 since it has alot of reviews and the Klasse AIO. I don't know the others.

THen there are the hybrid ones that I got even more confused with. you would think a product that is a cleaner to fix light swirls, has wax for the best shine and sealant for longest durability would be a no brainer?
 
11B250 said:
you would think a product that is a cleaner to fix light swirls, has wax for the best shine and sealant for longest durability would be a no brainer?
Click to expand...


It is a no-brainer and that's why most companies offer some type of one-step cleaner/wax in their line of product.

But because "we" like choices, there's lots of them. Kind of like when you walk down the chip aisle at a grocery store - there's hundreds of different types of snack chips to choose from. No on complains on a forum though, they just test out chips till they find one they like.

What I've observed over the years if people complain when there's too few options and when there's too many options.


For example just a few years ago all there was for polishers were,

  1. The rotary buffer
  2. The Cyclo polisher
  3. The Porter Cable polisher


Now there's dozens of tools to choose from.

And people complain because they can't decide which polisher to purchase. In my opinion, more options is a better thing to complain about then too few options.


It's all good... just the times are a changing...

A good one-step cleaner/wax that I like is the 3D HD Speed.


:)
 
People are always asking about what's "the best" this or that. If you tell them what they are using is the best they wont believe it.

There is no best it's all about trying things
 
Going to try Poli-Seal soon. Seems like a 360/Speed clone. Noticed some marring on my Prius so I want to see how it stacks up. Nice problem to have, too many choices, that is.
 
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