The Post a Picture of Your Ride as it Sits Thread

What is that, a modern day Elky or Ranchero??
Yes and no.

The El Camino and Ranchero came after Ford and Holden started producing passenger car-based pickups in the late 1930's. Legend has it that when Henry Ford was visiting the Australian factories, he spotted the Aussie Ford Ute and called it a "kangaroo chaser" and that he wanted one for himself. The results would (much) later surface in the form of the Ranchero.







The Holden versions that followed from 1948 were a direct response to the Ford Ute.





What makes the "Coupe Utility" (Ute) different to just a pickup truck is the fact they were passenger car based with a full monocoque body, not a body-on-frame truck with separate bed and cabin. Notice how the body side from the door back isn't separated. The only exception to that was the later Falcon Utes, which had a separate tub and cabin, but still had a monocoque construction. The Holden's kept the unbroken body side.













I mention all this because for the most part, the Australian car industry was largely influenced by what the US counterparts were doing. The Ford Ute, and the Holdens that would follow, were basically the only time where the Australian market influenced the US market. Of all that we have lost from the demise of locally made cars, its the proper 2-door Coupe Utility that is missed the most. A single cab Hilux, Ranger or Triton is in no way a replacement, they are just too agricultural.....................and slow.

The last Falcon Ute very quietly rolled off the line in mid 2016. For what was a game changer back in the day, I was and still am upset Ford didn't celebrate the end of such a pivotal model. I guess with them marketing the Ranger as "Ute" (it isn't by the way), they didn't want to associate the end of Falcon Ute to the Ranger that they were going to keep selling.







So no, NOT a modern-day Ranchero or El Camino, that car was a modern-day Holden Ute.
 
Yes and no.

The El Camino and Ranchero came after Ford and Holden started producing passenger car-based pickups in the late 1930's. Legend has it that when Henry Ford was visiting the Australian factories, he spotted the Aussie Ford Ute and called it a "kangaroo chaser" and that he wanted one for himself. The results would (much) later surface in the form of the Ranchero.







The Holden versions that followed from 1948 were a direct response to the Ford Ute.





What makes the "Coupe Utility" (Ute) different to just a pickup truck is the fact they were passenger car based with a full monocoque body, not a body-on-frame truck with separate bed and cabin. Notice how the body side from the door back isn't separated. The only exception to that was the later Falcon Utes, which had a separate tub and cabin, but still had a monocoque construction. The Holden's kept the unbroken body side.













I mention all this because for the most part, the Australian car industry was largely influenced by what the US counterparts were doing. The Ford Ute, and the Holdens that would follow, were basically the only time where the Australian market influenced the US market. Of all that we have lost from the demise of locally made cars, its the proper 2-door Coupe Utility that is missed the most. A single cab Hilux, Ranger or Triton is in no way a replacement, they are just too agricultural.....................and slow.

The last Falcon Ute very quietly rolled off the line in mid 2016. For what was a game changer back in the day, I was and still am upset Ford didn't celebrate the end of such a pivotal model. I guess with them marketing the Ranger as "Ute" (it isn't by the way), they didn't want to associate the end of Falcon Ute to the Ranger that they were going to keep selling.







So no, NOT a modern-day Ranchero or El Camino, that car was a modern-day Holden Ute.
Thanks Deyon, I knew you'd be able to give a more detailed response than I could.
Unfortunately, they also disappearing off our roads in favour of what are basically pick-ups.
 
Thanks Deyon, I knew you'd be able to give a more detailed response than I could.
Unfortunately, they also disappearing off our roads in favour of what are basically pick-ups.
I should probably get around to writing that book.........................................
 
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Car looks good! I’ve still only seen 2 of the N models in person. A black one (stick shift, I’d say half throttle), and a light blue one that was parked. I like your color more than both of those, and it’s not even close.

I hit the touchless wash 2 days ago so of course we have a bit of snow and a ton of salt on the roads.


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While looking through my old Google pics I found a couple more of 2 of my old rides. I did seem to have a thing for black wheels, but I think I'm over it now.

The Pathfinder I had back in the mid 2000s.

View attachment 137458View attachment 137459

And the Crewman Cross 8 I had around 2015-17. These were during a trip to the red centre.

View attachment 137460View attachment 137461
The CrewCross looks like a very long vehicle

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The CrewCross looks like a very long vehicle

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About 210 inches long, with a wheelbase of 126.25. It wasn't much fun driving in carparks , other than the sound that came from the LS1, yes, I fitted a sports exhaust to it. It was great fun everywhere else, especially dirt roads.
 
The CrewCross looks like a very long vehicle

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The Holden Crewman is an interesting vehicle, one that I will always wonder about.

For the 2000 Sydney motor show, Ford unveiled a concept vehicle they called the R5 again. At the time, Ford were floating ideas on how they would respond to the increasingly popular SUV segment, which at that stage, Ford only offered the Explorer and Courier (Ranger). The question was, did buyers want an SUV for the AWD/4WD capabilities, the body style and ride height, or a combination of each? The first concept they released to gauge public reaction was the crew-cab Falcon R5.











The R5 was based on the Falcon sedan, but with redesigned from the B-pillar rearwards, featuring suicide rear doors. It then used the Ute/Wagon live axle. The concept was powered by the 300hp version of the Windsor V8 5.0, lifted from the XR8. There were actually two versions of the R5, the first was RWD with raised ride height (above), the second had AWD (below). The concept also previewed exterior and interior styling cues that would appear on the new Falcon in 2002, in particular the lower bumper opening, and the interiors central stack.





These are my images taken at the Ford Geelong Discovery Center, which has sadly closed now.





The concept was very well received, Ford were quite coy about if it would make production.

Ford Australia’s chief designer Rob Strong said the tough truck was far more than a show pony, and wasn’t far from production, if given the green light.

“It’s not out there to just titillate show-goers,” he said. “It’s a credible idea.”

In 2002, Ford followed the R5 with the Raptor R7 concept.......................yes, Ford Australia used the Raptor name first...................................





Always loved those wheels................................................







The Raptor R7 was again based on the Falcon sedan platform, but it used a completely different body and had a then secret new IRS suspension design. It also debuted a new double wishbone front suspension, which didn't appear on Falcon until the 2008 FG. The R7 would eventually go into production and was named Territory, the production version looking very similar to the concept. The Territory was so well received by the USA management team that they went ahead and designed their own, although the resulting Freestyle was FWD based. For Territory, both RWD and a 40/60 front/rear split AWD system were offered.

The Territory was an instant and enduring success. With the BA Falcon and Territory, Ford were running the factory at 110% capacity. And as Ford had predicted, it wasn't necessarily the AWD system buyers wanted, rather the SUV look and added ride height.



So, why is all this relevant to the Holden Crewman? Holden's approach to the increasing demand for AWD SUV's took a very different path. Instead of creating a new body style, which proved to be what customers wanted, they engineered an AWD system to slot under existing Holden Commodore models. The result was a Subaru Outback-style AWD Wagon called the Adventra, which was followed later by an AWD Commodore (single cab) and Crewman (double cab). I actually loved the Adventra, being based on the long wheel base Commodore wagon meant it had a much bigger cargo area compared to the Territory, and other SUV's.

Sadly for Holden, none of AWD models sold as Holden had hoped...........................for three reasons. First, those early Adventra's were V8 only, which many didn't want to due to the cost of keeping one fueled. A V6 later appeared, but that didn't address the real problems.......................they didn't look like an SUV, nor did they have 7-seater capability like the Territory did.



In fairness to Holden, there were plans to replace the Adventra with a Territory-style SUV on the upcoming all-new VE Commodore's Zeta platform. This was all happening during the 2008 GFC, GM went bankrupt, and Holden had to fend for themselves..............................which killed the plans for the AWD SUV. Instead, Holden went with the imported Daewoo-made (GMDAT) Captiva.

Again, how does this relate to the Crewman. Instead of putting all their eggs in the one basket like Ford did with the Territory, Holden spent their money on creating several AWD models, including a dual-cab Ute. Although no one has said it, but I suspect Holden took that path after seeing Ford's R5 concept in 2000, thinking Ford were going to make a dual cab Falcon Ute. The Crewman appeared in 2004, which at the time, 4-years was the standard development time frame in the auto-industry. Ford called their bluff.

I've said this before, and apologies to Big Dave, but the Crewman was a Frankenstein. To create the Crewman, the used the long wheelbase Statesman/Caprice, then grafted on shorted wagon doors, a Ute rear window, a shortened bed/tub with a Ute tailgate. The rear seats were also cut-n-shut, which made them uncomfortable and lacking in legroom. The result was a very unbalanced, poorly proportions side profile and a long, and gangly looking. Then there was the mess of shut lines and panels needed to make all of the carry-over panels line up, even the roof was a two piece arrangement. So, it was a cut-n-shut special.







Having said that, the AWD version looked much better. With the added body cladding wheel and wheel arch extensions, as well as the higher ride height, it seemed to balance out the look compared to the RWD examples.

The concept of a dual cab Commodore or Falcon Ute certainly had appeal. But the Crewman was poorly executed. Being based on a passenger vehicle, it should have had a clear comfort and dynamic advantage over the crude ladder-frame pickups that were on the market at the time. I got to drive one of the earlier VY models, it drove like a lead balloon. The steering in particular was horrible, far too heavy and very springy in feel, it also rode hard and the brakes underpowered for the extra weight over a normal Commodore Ute or sedan.

Sorry Dave, didn't mean this post to offend, rather explore where those models came from.
 
The Holden Crewman is an interesting vehicle, one that I will always wonder about.

For the 2000 Sydney motor show, Ford unveiled a concept vehicle they called the R5 again. At the time, Ford were floating ideas on how they would respond to the increasingly popular SUV segment, which at that stage, Ford only offered the Explorer and Courier (Ranger). The question was, did buyers want an SUV for the AWD/4WD capabilities, the body style and ride height, or a combination of each? The first concept they released to gauge public reaction was the crew-cab Falcon R5.











The R5 was based on the Falcon sedan, but with redesigned from the B-pillar rearwards, featuring suicide rear doors. It then used the Ute/Wagon live axle. The concept was powered by the 300hp version of the Windsor V8 5.0, lifted from the XR8. There were actually two versions of the R5, the first was RWD with raised ride height (above), the second had AWD (below). The concept also previewed exterior and interior styling cues that would appear on the new Falcon in 2002, in particular the lower bumper opening, and the interiors central stack.





These are my images taken at the Ford Geelong Discovery Center, which has sadly closed now.





The concept was very well received, Ford were quite coy about if it would make production.



In 2002, Ford followed the R5 with the Raptor R7 concept.......................yes, Ford Australia used the Raptor name first...................................





Always loved those wheels................................................







The Raptor R7 was again based on the Falcon sedan platform, but it used a completely different body and had a then secret new IRS suspension design. It also debuted a new double wishbone front suspension, which didn't appear on Falcon until the 2008 FG. The R7 would eventually go into production and was named Territory, the production version looking very similar to the concept. The Territory was so well received by the USA management team that they went ahead and designed their own, although the resulting Freestyle was FWD based. For Territory, both RWD and a 40/60 front/rear split AWD system were offered.

The Territory was an instant and enduring success. With the BA Falcon and Territory, Ford were running the factory at 110% capacity. And as Ford had predicted, it wasn't necessarily the AWD system buyers wanted, rather the SUV look and added ride height.



So, why is all this relevant to the Holden Crewman? Holden's approach to the increasing demand for AWD SUV's took a very different path. Instead of creating a new body style, which proved to be what customers wanted, they engineered an AWD system to slot under existing Holden Commodore models. The result was a Subaru Outback-style AWD Wagon called the Adventra, which was followed later by an AWD Commodore (single cab) and Crewman (double cab). I actually loved the Adventra, being based on the long wheel base Commodore wagon meant it had a much bigger cargo area compared to the Territory, and other SUV's.

Sadly for Holden, none of AWD models sold as Holden had hoped...........................for three reasons. First, those early Adventra's were V8 only, which many didn't want to due to the cost of keeping one fueled. A V6 later appeared, but that didn't address the real problems.......................they didn't look like an SUV, nor did they have 7-seater capability like the Territory did.



In fairness to Holden, there were plans to replace the Adventra with a Territory-style SUV on the upcoming all-new VE Commodore's Zeta platform. This was all happening during the 2008 GFC, GM went bankrupt, and Holden had to fend for themselves..............................which killed the plans for the AWD SUV. Instead, Holden went with the imported Daewoo-made (GMDAT) Captiva.

Again, how does this relate to the Crewman. Instead of putting all their eggs in the one basket like Ford did with the Territory, Holden spent their money on creating several AWD models, including a dual-cab Ute. Although no one has said it, but I suspect Holden took that path after seeing Ford's R5 concept in 2000, thinking Ford were going to make a dual cab Falcon Ute. The Crewman appeared in 2004, which at the time, 4-years was the standard development time frame in the auto-industry. Ford called their bluff.

I've said this before, and apologies to Big Dave, but the Crewman was a Frankenstein. To create the Crewman, the used the long wheelbase Statesman/Caprice, then grafted on shorted wagon doors, a Ute rear window, a shortened bed/tub with a Ute tailgate. The rear seats were also cut-n-shut, which made them uncomfortable and lacking in legroom. The result was a very unbalanced, poorly proportions side profile and a long, and gangly looking. Then there was the mess of shut lines and panels needed to make all of the carry-over panels line up, even the roof was a two piece arrangement. So, it was a cut-n-shut special.







Having said that, the AWD version looked much better. With the added body cladding wheel and wheel arch extensions, as well as the higher ride height, it seemed to balance out the look compared to the RWD examples.

The concept of a dual cab Commodore or Falcon Ute certainly had appeal. But the Crewman was poorly executed. Being based on a passenger vehicle, it should have had a clear comfort and dynamic advantage over the crude ladder-frame pickups that were on the market at the time. I got to drive one of the earlier VY models, it drove like a lead balloon. The steering in particular was horrible, far too heavy and very springy in feel, it also rode hard and the brakes underpowered for the extra weight over a normal Commodore Ute or sedan.

Sorry Dave, didn't mean this post to offend, rather explore where those models came from.
No apology required the Cross 8 was a Frankenstein's Monster, and it was very thirsty driving it around the city, my average was around 21-24L/100km (11.2-9.8mpg). Barely 10 years after they stopped making them and AWD specific parts were starting to get hard to find. When one of my power steering hoses started leaking, the Holden dealer had to get Pirtek in to make one, it was still covered by the used car warranty so they had to fix it. But the service guy recommended getting rid of it as soon as the warranty ran out, or it could get very expensive. Other issues, I went through 2 sets of front discs in 3 years, the fuel gauge never worked properly, the X-Force exhaust had to be heated up and bent to fit without knocking on the transfer case, they didn't make them for AWD models, so they just fitted the SS exhaust and bent it. But it was great fun just flooring it off the line in any conditions.

By the way, I had never heard, of seen, the R5, so I find it really interesting, even the wheels that Holden designed for the Adventra, Cross 8 were a similar style to Raptor, just with less spokes. Two guys I worked with had Territories, one was RWD, the other an AWD Ghia. I really liked them when they came out, but they had some issues as well. The guy with the AWD had his front right suspension collapse in his driveway, apparently this wasn't uncommon, but weirdly, and fortunately, only happened at walking pace. The other was owned by my boss, and 3 times he had the throttle by wire system fail, he would be sitting at traffic lights and when the lights went green nothing would happen. He had to shut it down, lock it with the remote, unlock and restart it, then it would go. No fault was ever recorded in the system, and Ford said it was impossible as it was a triple redundant system. So he just sold it, he couldn't trust it. I still see a few on the road around here, I think they're one of those mostly robust designs that will keep going until someone crashes them.
 
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No apology required the Cross 8 was a Frankenstein's Monster, and it was very thirsty driving it around the city, my average was around 21-24L/100km (11.2-9.8mpg). Barely 10 years after they stopped making them and AWD specific parts were starting to get hard to find. When one of my power steering hoses started leaking, the Holden dealer had to get Pirtek in to make one, it was still covered by the used car warranty so they had to fix it. But the service guy recommended getting rid of it as soon as the warranty ran out, or it could get very expensive. Other issues, I went through 2 sets of front discs in 3 years, the fuel gauge never worked properly, the X-Force exhaust had to be heated up and bent to fit without knocking on the transfer case, they didn't make them for AWD models, so they just fitted the SS exhaust and bent it. But it was great fun just flooring it off the line in any conditions.

By the way, I had never heard, of seen, the R5, so I find it really interesting, even the wheels that Holden designed for the Adventra, Cross 8 were a similar style to Raptor, just with less spokes. Two guys I worked with had Territories, one was RWD, the other an AWD Ghia. I really liked them when they came out, but they had some issues as well. The guy with the AWD had his front right suspension collapse in his driveway, apparently this wasn't uncommon, but weirdly, and fortunately, only happened at walking pace. The other was owned by my boss, and 3 times he had the throttle by wire system fail, he would be sitting at traffic lights and when the lights went green nothing would happen. He had to shut it down, lock it with the remote, unlock and restart it, then it would go. No fault was ever recorded in the system, and Ford said it was impossible as it was a triple redundant system. So he just sold it, he couldn't trust it. I still see a few on the road around here, I think they're one of those mostly robust designs that will keep going until someone crashes them.
Within the family I work for, one of them is married to an ex-Holden engineer. When his employment was terminated by GM, they moved the San Fransico where he was working for Apple on the car they were going to make. He's since lost that job too as Apple cancelled the program. Anyway, I remember on of the guys was looking at getting an Adventra, but he was told to stay away from the Adventra and to look at a Territory instead. I think that says it all, if a Holden employee didn't believe in the product, how would potential customers?

The Territory, like any car, had its issues. The early SX and SY models did in fact have issues with the front suspension ball joints, I actually spotted one yesterday sitting down on its front wheels, the later SY II, SZ and SZ II used a revised setup which was also used on the FG Falcon. There were also issues with early models having rear brake hoses too short, and the rear diff bushes required frequent replacement, which is expensive because the whole cradle needs to be lowered. Oh, and they are notorious for rust in the lower tailgate, even after a year or two. But the engines were always bullet proof, although the later 2.7 V6 diesel (from Landrover) required expensive cam belt changes.

I've driven a couple, both were the later facelifted SZ models, one with the 4.0 inline 6, one with the diesel V6. I'm not a fan of diesel, but that V6 was smooth as silk, a world away from a rattly 4-cylinder diesel. And the dynamics and steering were so bloody good, the other SUV that I've driven that betters it is the considerably more expensive Jaguar F-Pace. That's why they sold so many, the car-like driving dynamics made them feel more approachable, less truck like. Now, that advantage narrowed in its later years, but in the early 2000's, most SUVs were heavy-duty 4WD's with a separate chassis and boat-like turning circles. I know of people who are holding onto their Territory's because nothing really delivers that level of chassis capability, not to mention the effort Ford put into making the interior as user friendly as possible.
 
Dave, what year was that thing? The LS1 was phased out in the US starting with 2005 model year vehicles. (LS6 remained for 05 Cadillac CTS-V).

Cool ride in my opinion. I still love my LS1.


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That Territory/Freestyle comparison is spot on, what a difference it must have been between THAT and what we got. My ex-mother in law had a 2005 Freestyle and I actually liked driving it, thought the CVT was "cool" since it was SO different. Our Freestyle/TaurusX had a Volvo-based chassis and AWD system, only engine was the 3.0L DOHC V6, adequate power for how those things were used.

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Dave, what year was that thing? The LS1 was phased out in the US starting with 2005 model year vehicles. (LS6 remained for 05 Cadillac CTS-V).

Cool ride in my opinion. I still love my LS1.


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It was a 2003, they went through to 2006 by which time they had the 6.0 L76 Gen 4. The LS1 put out 301hp and 340 lbft, the L76 was 362hp and 376 lbft. They could also be had with a V6, 3.8 in the early models and 3.6 in the later ones, but they were a heavy thing so they wouldn't have been much fun.
 
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