Today's Tragedy

Why do you think this ?. I am sure there would still have been deaths. Maybe not as many but any innocent life taken is to many. There also could have been just as many victims as I do not know the time line that all of this happened in and when the nut case commited suicide before officials arrived. I do know that home invasions are at least two people. One defenseless home owner against more than one does not have the odds in their favor. If I am going to die from one of the many nuts out there I do not want to go down defenseless like a sitting duck. I had one of these insane people beating on a picture window trying to get in with the wife and a two year old daughter in the house at 9PM one time. I stood in the room with a 40 cal. Glock aimed at the window with 911 on the phone. It took at least 5 mins. for police to arrive then subdue this crack head. If he would have made it into the house there is no telling what he would have done. I know I would have emptied a magazine of hollow points in him when one leg would came thru that window. I think I will personally keep and protect what I have with the tools I have available.

Dave

Dave
And because you had it, not a shot had to be fired; and nobody got hurt.

You'll notice these @$$#@(&$ don't go into a gun store or to a gun range or into a police station to unlease their own personal kind of hell on us; against someone who stands an equal chance of defending themselves. They go after the most defenseless people they can find. They want to have total control over the situation without any risk on their part; until they are ready to call it quits.

Just something to consider. Response time on your 911 call was 5 minutes; response time on that Glock would be a fraction of a second, if need be, from a respondible, trained individual. In your case, it stopped harm from happening. And your scenario happens more frequently than we know; we just don't hear about it because the outcome is not sensational.

The courts have determined that the police have the responsibility "to protect" society; not to protect you or me.

Police have weapons to defend themselves; not to defend you or me. They have weapons to defend themselves from "civilians" as they use the term; that's you and me and everyone else out there.

So where does that leave us. I'm glad you had your Glock to protect yourself and family.

Just something to consider.
 
I understand the the impulse to try to find sense in an senseless tragedy. However, one thing that is always missing in these discussions (especially when the event is fresh and emotions are raw) is the weight placed on an inanimate objects(i.e guns) and not on the underlying demons of the gunman. Almost to a one, almost every worldwide spree/school shooter has had some diagnosed mental illness. This condition either deteriated unchecked and/or was untreated or improperly medicated. No amount of legislation is going to help fix this individual and no additional amount of legislation will save us from random crimes.

Most of us drove somewhere today. We have in our possession a tool that allows us to transverse great distances and allows us unprecedented personal freedom. However, if we took that same tool and decided to plow into pedestrans with malice, do we blame the tool? Or do we blame the operator of that tool? The same holds true with gun ownership.
 
Most of us drove somewhere today. We have in our possession a tool that allows us to transverse great distances and allows us unprecedented personal freedom. However, if we took that same tool and decided to plow into pedestrans with malice, do we blame the tool? Or do we blame the operator of that tool? The same holds true with gun ownership.

Except a car is a transportation tool, a kitchen knife is a cooking tool, a baseball bat is a sports tool...a gun is a killing tool; it has no other purpose. Those other "tools" have other primary purposes. It has now been stated that an assault rifle was the weapon that was used to kill the people in the Sandy Hook Elementary School; I can't even call that a "self-defense killing tool", it is an offensive tool, and that's how it was used.

Aren't our Glocks enough? I personally can live with just that, I don't need to have an AR-15, in my neighborhood I just don't need that kind of range when I plink somebody off. I guess what I'm saying is, I wait for them to come onto my property, I don't need to take them out when they're still on the neighbor's lawn.
 
Some will ask why God allowed this to happen, it’s because he’s not allowed in schools anymore…God bless all of you....

I'm with you Bobby, this whole thing hurts but there is a bigger picture and we'll be lifting up these families at our home Bible Study. The world is fitting into the "End Times" scenario more almost daily.
 
It seems easy in a time like this to blame things like the weapon. But lets be honest, this individual made a personal choice to do this. And to say its a lack of "God " in schools is another cop out. What would u say if he left a letter saying "God" told him to do this? Probably blame it on mental illness or video game violence. Bottom line is, until we stop making celebrities out of these scum bags and start holding the PEOPLE accountable for their actions, things won't improve.
 
Yet another phsychopath emerges...

Ind. man with 47 guns arrested after school threat

We can place blame on any tool you want and it is nothing but a crutch...a place to put the blame and it is NOT the answer. The reality of it all is that the the problem lies within the heart of men. Ironically, the solution is found there as well...in the heart of men.

When men reconcile their hearts to God there can be no hate, for there is no room for it.
 
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And the same old story from non-gun people. Blame an inanimate object for the deeds of men while ignoring the deteriorating society.

Certain people are judged by their "intentions" while others are judged by their "results".....which do you think everyone REALLY wants here, think about it. Oh and just so there's no confusion, I agree 100% with Rayaz!

We all know that the problem is but its going to take some time to dig down deep and find it, treat it and monitor it. Hard work like this takes commitment from our society as a whole, I wish the right people could read all of this and act on it!

May all the victims RIP.......

Sent from my SPH-M930 using AG Online
 
Something tells me if this guy would've showed up with a table leg, things would've turned out different

Something tells me if there were a legally armed person in this school, things would've turned out different.

As was said earlier... guns are NOT the problem.
 
Except a car is a transportation tool, a kitchen knife is a cooking tool, a baseball bat is a sports tool...a gun is a killing tool; it has no other purpose. Those other "tools" have other primary purposes. It has now been stated that an assault rifle was the weapon that was used to kill the people in the Sandy Hook Elementary School; I can't even call that a "self-defense killing tool", it is an offensive tool, and that's how it was used.

Aren't our Glocks enough? I personally can live with just that, I don't need to have an AR-15, in my neighborhood I just don't need that kind of range when I plink somebody off. I guess what I'm saying is, I wait for them to come onto my property, I don't need to take them out when they're still on the neighbor's lawn.

OMG! Enough with the term "Assault Rifle"! I own SEVEN evil assault rifles... all chambered in either 5.56 or .308. I even went to the range to unload a few hundred rounds... I loaded up my EVIL 30 round mags... loaded my EVIL rifle or EBR, and I hesitated whilst I reflected a moment and thought "Could these things really be as evil as people say?" So i laid my EVIL rifle down in front of me and I called it names... it didn't fire a single round. I then proceed to tease it... still didn't fire. I even bullied it... Nope... no bang.

Then I picked her back up and INTENTIONALLY pulled the trigger... and yep... BANG.

Guns, no matter what type - pistols, ARs, AKs or bolt-action don't kill people - people kill people.

And you are quite correct - a gun is a killing tool. I carry a Glock 19 EVERYWHERE I am legally allowed - why? FOR PROTECTION. If I wanted to build a bad guy a house, I'd carry a hammer.
 
I can think of 28 ppl that would beg to differ

It's quite obvious that you are not pro gun... and that's fine. I support that. Yes... what happened was tragic. That's no reason the other millions of RESPONSIBLE gun owners should suffer for the wrong doings of a select few.

Personally I am not worried about any new legislation further restricting my rights coming down any time soon...

But for so many to say "All guns should be banished" is just outrageous. So by that logic, some misinformed person posting on an internet forum makes a post I do not agree with gives me the right to say "The First Amendment must go!" See.. pretty silly, isn't it?
 
It seems easy in a time like this to blame things like the weapon. But lets be honest, this individual made a personal choice to do this. And to say its a lack of "God " in schools is another cop out. What would u say if he left a letter saying "God" told him to do this? Probably blame it on mental illness or video game violence. Bottom line is, until we stop making celebrities out of these scum bags and start holding the PEOPLE accountable for their actions, things won't improve.

^^^ 100% Agree, also even if there was an armed citizen present, a pistol vs an assault riffle isnt going to turn out well. Secondly, unless your military or law enforcement, most citizens dont have the trainning to handle a gunfight. Let alone a scenario where your backdrop is a bunch of children. You miss, and shoot a kid yourself?

In many controlled tests, seasoned gun owners with CCW permits where put on a "scenario" for trainning purposes involving a classroom and a live shooter. As the shooter walked into the class room, most subjects got lit up before they even took their own weapon out, and the rest either shot someone else or missed and got tagged. The bottom line is more gun ownership isnt going to solve events like this from happening. Im ALL for gun ownership Im a former academy graduate, but there needs to be mental and background evaluations IMO before letting any average joe purchase a weapon, regardless if they have a "clean" record.
 
After events such as the shootings at the elementary school in Connecticut, firearm ownership and specifically the kind of firearm becomes a very emotionally charged issue. What happened and continues to happen here and around the world is horrifying. The task we're all faced with is stopping this behavior and it must be stopped at the source.

Everyone quickly points the finger at the method used and in this case guns.

Because if it's design, the AR15 on the exterior looks very similar to what our troops and law enforcement carries today. The AR15 is black and is sinister or evil looking. Does this make it lethal, no of course not, it's the cartridge or bullet it fires.

Here's a great hunting rifle that I own and have owned for years. It's appearance is conventional and in the eyes of most an acceptable alternative to the AR15....

742_zpsd30d5b80.jpg


Now for the details....


This is a beautiful Remington 724 semi-automatic chambered for the 308 Winchester. Bullets are supplied to the chamber via a magazine or clip. With the scope allows me to be surgically accurate out to more than 600 yards and lethal well beyond this range.

If I painted the beautiful walnut stock flat black and added an extended magazine does it now become an assault rifle? In a word, NO!

What I can tell you is I'm very good with this rifle and cartridge, so good that I'd pit myself against nearly anyone with an AR15 because this combination of larger cartridge, longer barrel, and scope gives me the upper hand at almost any range.

Ruger Mini 14


mini_zps211239c5.jpg


Again, a great looking rifle but if I paint the stock black and a larger magazine I can make it "look" as evil as the ones the SWAT team carries.

mini2_zpsdc376723.jpg


Should we ban or outlaw something that "looks evil".....This is a very slippery slope because there are a lot of people that I think are evil looking so what do I do with them?

Walk Softly

Rights guaranteed and protected by the Constitution of the United States is very dangerous because these rights are the foundation of our country and were carefully created and in a specific order for a reason.

Do you think the placement of 2nd amendment; A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed was an accident or a coincidence? The 2nd amendment was place there to protect everything included in the 1st...

When atrocities arise there's an immediate need to ensure someone pays and this never happens again. In a perfect world this is easier said than done, in the real world this is nearly impossible and is generally a knee-jerk reaction and causing more harm then good...


Deaths in America 2011


  • Smoking related Deaths - 500,000
  • Alcohol related Deaths - 75,000
  • Drug Related Deaths - 37,485
  • Murder with a Firearm - 9,369
  • Cell Phone Deaths - 6,000


  • Drunk Driving -
    • Outlaw Cars?
    • Outlaw alcohol?
  • High Speed Auto Crashes
    • Limit HP?
    • Limit Speed to 20mph?
  • Freedom of Speech
    • All speech?
    • Certain speech?
  • Freedom of Religion
    • Which religion
    • Who decides
  • Freedom of Press
    • Regulation of Media - might not be a bad idea in some cases

Not to minimize or trivialize the tragedy that resulted in 27 deaths in the Connecticut Elementary School but if we're serious reducing or eliminating senseless deaths the annual statics above cite a compelling argument and speak volumes...

The murders that took place in Connecticut were simply horrible and there are almost no words to describe the shock and enduring sadness it has brought to all of us. We all want something done, some want revenge for those deaths and to a degree it's understandable but if it's extracted that moment of satisfaction or euphoria will subside and the consequences will be catastrophic..
 
The kid that killed these ppl, do you think his mother was a responsible gun owner?

Based off the sketchy information available as of now... Nope. There are allegedly three people, two of whom are family members, have said the kid wasn't "right".

The Mother should have had those weapons secured. Again, it is a tragedy what happened... But in some states, had the Mother not been executed by her own son, she would have been criminally liable for not properly securing her weapons.

Now, had those weapons been properly secured and the Son managed to circumvent that, that's another story.

FYI - ALL of my weapons, except my carry pistol, are stored in two 600 lb gun safes - RESPONSIBLY.
 
there needs to be mental and background evaluations IMO before letting any average joe purchase a weapon, regardless if they have a "clean" record.

That is the best answer I heard so far. They pass out gun permits here to convicted felons/mentally ill on a regular basis. You see it in the news all the time

I have a neighbor who is a BIG TIME conspiracy therory honk.....this guy ain't right in the head...... he loves parading around town with a gun on his hip....looks like a freekin moron to everyone else, but he thinks he's bad....If he ever shows up on the news one day, it will be of no surprise to me
 
My point is more than anything else is: IF all guns were banned... do you SERIOUSLY think the criminals will turn theirs in? Really think about this...

Now, in this EXTREME hypothetical, all the law abiding citizens, who are NOT out murdering , have been disarmed and don't stand a chance against an armed assailant.

Again - if you are not pro-gun, I support that and respect your position. However, keep in mind that I am not questioning YOUR first amendment rights to bash or question MY second amendment rights.
 
Turns into a tough topic when we turn it into wether we should have access to assault weapons. When the Russian threat was more realistic in the 70's, even their Gov. said that because individual Americans were so well armed, it was not a plausible idea to try and occupy the United States should they attempt it.
I have my weapons and support our right to arm ourselves, but it is people's hearts that are the problem, they choose to do vile things with an instrument designed to protect us, that knucklehead could have loaded a car with explosives and played Kamikaze with it.
 
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