Topping Of Coatings?

Judging by the responses, we don't need coatings at all or it don't matter which coating one chooses as the topper will always be the final product in aesthetics and water behaviour. Thanks for proving me right.
 
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...ons/100400-wolfgang-uber-ceramic-coating.html

Post number 9-

Re: Wolfgang uber ceramic coating
Here's my take... somewhere I have a solid post on this after talking to Rob Earl from GTechniq


When you top a coating you lose the benefits of the coating and gain the benefits of the topper. Since the forum consensus is that the benefits of a coating are greater than the benefits of a car wax or synthetic paint sealant, to top a coating would be negative contribution not a positive contribution.

That said... beauty is in the eye of the holder


Me? I don't top anything I've coated with a paint coating.


Hope that helps...



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Zubair said:
Judging by the responses, we don't need coatings at all or it don't matter which coating one chooses as the topper will always be the final product in aesthetics and water behaviour. Thanks for proving me right.
Click to expand...

Once again, the coating is the sacrificial layer. Top it or not. If it gets topped, it is a very similar chemical make up. If your topping it with something designed to have a different water response, or look yes it can be a waste of time. If your topping with products that have no change, but serve to restore or extend the coating life, I see it as a good thing.

I think that the less a modern clearcoat needs to be corrected, the better. If a coating is going to absorb some of the damage and require less clear removal thats great.

All of my cars are coated with different products, some are into the 2nd year that sit outside and are daily driven. With proper care, and yes using a booster they look and perform just the same as day 1. Saves me load and loads of time to do other things.
Simple wash and use booster as a drying aid, fast easy done.
 
Zubair said:
Judging by the responses, we don't need coatings at all or it don't matter which coating one chooses as the topper will always be the final product in aesthetics and water behaviour. Thanks for proving me right.
Click to expand...
I still say:
If any Coating needs, (or is designed),
to be "topped"...
it's not much to write home about.


Bob
 
Nor Cal ZL1 said:
Once again, the coating is the sacrificial layer. Top it or not. If it gets topped, it is a very similar chemical make up. If your topping it with something designed to have a different water response, or look yes it can be a waste of time. If your topping with products that have no change, but serve to restore or extend the coating life, I see it as a good thing.

I think that the less a modern clearcoat needs to be corrected, the better. If a coating is going to absorb some of the damage and require less clear removal thats great.

All of my cars are coated with different products, some are into the 2nd year that sit outside and are daily driven. With proper care, and yes using a booster they look and perform just the same as day 1. Saves me load and loads of time to do other things.
Simple wash and use booster as a drying aid, fast easy done.
Click to expand...

This response brings up a point I forgot to make. Synergy. When I actually top, I use something designed to work together. So I only put Reload on top or CQuartz coatings and Opti Seal on top of Opti Coat Pro line coatings.
 
The reason I coating because it protection not the look and reason that I top my coating with wax because I prefers the oily wet look of nuba, the added protection is not the main concerns. Purely the look is what I want from topping.
 
Zubair said:
Judging by the responses, we don't need coatings at all or it don't matter which coating one chooses as the topper will always be the final product in aesthetics and water behaviour.
Click to expand...
Yes, but once the topper wears off, then you have no protection without a coating. A quality coating will last 2+ years without a topper, so you'll always be protected. No wax, sealant, or topper will last that long.
 
This is a great thread and definitely got me thinking... I may see how well Uber does on it's own from here on out without the addition of D156 during the drying process. I think I need to trust the product I purchased to do what is claimed and not interfere.
 
natewood70 said:
This is a great thread and definitely got me thinking... I may see how well Uber does on it's own from here on out with the addition of D156 during the drying process. I think I need to trust the product I purchased to do what is claimed and not interfere.
Click to expand...

Exactly along the lines of my thinking.
 
Zubair said:
Exactly along the lines of my thinking.
Click to expand...

It's tough to break away from the old habit of "the more protection the better," but realistically with the cost of coatings you would EXPECT them to perform well on their own.
 
FUNX650 said:
I still say:
If any Coating needs, (or is designed),
to be "topped"...
it's not much to write home about.


Bob
Click to expand...

Great discussion over all.

Bob: I'm with you on this one.

I've coated two of my cars with McKee's 37 this Fall and so far am pretty happy with the results. The reason I went with a coating in the first place was the ability to go a year (or more) without having to do anything more than keep. The whole point was to simplify life and consolidate products. When looking at some coatings I was a little baffled by the need to use a frequent booster and/or a second coating product. The maintenance alone might push me towards a product like Opti Gloss which doesn't seem to require any maintenance vs PBL v2 which seems to depend on it's rather expensive booster.

All that aside, I do need a good drying aid that won't "gum up" my coatings. I don't expect it to be a topper or booster. With no shade available when washing my cars a drying aid that will help the towel glide over the surface easier and knock out water spots is a must.
 
I'm intrigued by the comment that a coating simplifies life in regards to maintenance. I have serious reservations about such an observation using coatings that requires special soap, special toppers and boosters, special coating repair polishes (carpro +), and god knows whatever other products the coating marketing gods have dreamed up to get your dollar. No doubt the coating offers better protection simply because it's thicker than any other LSP. But simplifying life is a stretch.
 
Its all about the $$$, gimmicks created to part unsuspecting people from their $$$ and the sheep line up.
 
silverfox said:
I'm intrigued by the comment that a coating simplifies life in regards to maintenance. I have serious reservations about such an observation using coatings that requires special soap, special toppers and boosters, special coating repair polishes (carpro +), and god knows whatever other products the coating marketing gods have dreamed up to get your dollar. No doubt the coating offers better protection simply because it's thicker than any other LSP. But simplifying life is a stretch.
Click to expand...

I found it simplifies life in two ways.
1) The vehicle is easier/faster to wash as grime/bugs come off much easier.
2) Instead of doing an LSP application twice a year, I only do it once...maybe less depending on the durability. That is a big reduction in time for me.

I for one, am not treating my coated vehicles any different than I would any other LSP. I'll keep them clean with a bucket wash and a reputable car shampoo on my normal cleaning schedule. A reputable QD spray will be used with my MF drying towels to deal with post-wash water spots. That's it. If the product won't go the distance with that regimen, then I'll either move on to one that does, or go back to sealants. I purposely used McKee's because it didn't make any mention of any additional product requirements.

I wonder how many of those additional products are *really* needed. Several coatings are just like you say, and seem to require an entire product line simply to keep them going, while others make no mention of needing anything special after application. I'd be very curious to see if the more labor intensive products would perform the same if you didn't use all of their "accessory" products. If they are any good at all, I bet they would do just fine.
 
Well you don't need special toppers or boosters generally. Essence + is just repairing the coated itself so you don't have to polish off the actual coating to fix any new swirl marks. Special soap in the sense of soap with no wax in it basically to get the full effect. It can simplify life for you if you let it but I think those of us on here cannot just LSP a car and leave it be. We're always doing something hence.. this topic.
 
They need to create an awesome lsp that's true to its "LAST" step product claims, that smells good,looks great and allows one to play around with polishes and other products as most detail enthusiasts can't leave these alone. Oh wait....Its called "WAX"!
 
Zubair said:
They need to create an awesome lsp that's true to its "LAST" step product claims, that smells good,looks great and allows one to play around with polishes and other products as most detail enthusiasts can't leave these alone. Oh wait....Its called "WAX"!
Click to expand...

In regards to your wishes of something eventually coming along that would be totally maintenance free, I don't think that could ever be possible.

Unless some other worldly product comes along, and that your vehicle is now like Klatuu's Martian Spaceship, where even a Diamond Drill can't effect the vehicle or its finish.

With that being said, I don't think anything available today will make washing-cleaning that much considerably easier, if you were to run your vehicle through a mud bog, like the Monster Mud Bogger Trucks do in contests.

Besides "maybe" being a thicker protectant (note how I say maybe, we're talking mere microns here), the one sole advantage to a good coating will be a harder top coat on the finish. One that is less prone to wash induced swirling, and a coating that is much harder than the paint itself, or any lesser products such as natural waxes, and poly sealants.

Still, park the vehicle near a water sprinkler, take a 500 mile trip with built up road grimes, dust storms, films from soaps, etc, you still will most likely find a need to remove these nasties with a product that will remove such, but yet not harm the coating in the process.

And other little nasties, like I've had happen to my junker Kia over the years here, Tumbleweeds that are akin to Barb Wire, Carboard Boxes and the like flying across the roads at 40 plus MPH, nothing is going to protect against those things. They might slightly lessen the damage, but damage will still occur, these coatings are not yet "Bulletproof", or in Klatuu's instance "Diamond Drill-Blowtorch proof".
 
silverfox said:
I'm intrigued by the comment that a coating simplifies life in regards to maintenance. I have serious reservations about such an observation using coatings that requires special soap, special toppers and boosters, special coating repair polishes (carpro +), and god knows whatever other products the coating marketing gods have dreamed up to get your dollar. No doubt the coating offers better protection simply because it's thicker than any other LSP. But simplifying life is a stretch.
Click to expand...

As someone who installs coatings, let me break it down:

1. Most of you forget we are but a very very very small percentage of car owners who are well versed in detailing. My average customer merely washes properly and goes. For these people, coatings do in fact make maintanence very easy.

2. Special coating soaps - So the main one that comes to mind in CarPro Reset. It is designed specifically to clean a coated car by not having any gloss enhancers and such and leave nothing behind. It does not mean you must only use this soap. I use it for my yearly decontamination washes for my customers with coated cars.

3. Coating repair polish - We as detailers coat many many everyday customers vehicles. And things happen. They get lax in proper wash methods, a dealership wash, etc can instill swirling into the coating. A repair polish such as Essence + is a budget friendly way to repair a customers car when things like this happen instead of them paying for a full repolish and coat.

Are they gimmicks? To each their own. But I could make the same argument for let's say.......spray wax. Why does one need to top their layer of wax with spray wax?
 
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