Two bucket vs Garry Dean wash
- Thread starter Nomadsto
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I've seen a few folks here mention the time/expence of washing towels, but don't you wash your mitts after every wash? My solution to that probleme was these: "Detailers Choice Spa Buffing Towels". These things are not good for much but they are ridiculously cheap and super soft. I have got about 54 of them by now. I wash towels maybe once every two or three weeks.
WRAPT C5Z06
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I'd rather wipe/dry a car where the dirt has been *rinsed/removed* as opposed to some dirt possibly still on the surface(rinseless), then wiped off. It's not the washing part of each method that's much different, it's the drying part that separates the two, IMO.
Setec Astronomy
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If you perform a rinseless wash and there is still dirt on the car when you get to the drying step, you have not washed the car properly...same as for a conventional wash.
Have you ever performed a rinseless wash?
Have you ever missed a spot during a conventional wash, which you found when drying the car?
frankprozzoly
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The cheap towels from Costco I think are soft enough for rinseless. $15 for 36 towels.
frankprozzoly
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I don't know how people get away with using only a gallon or two for the whole car. Maybe I'm just afraid of putting in scratches. I use almost a whole bucket for rinseless. I feel safer with a wetter towel going over the paint
WRAPT C5Z06
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Of course I performed a rinseless wash.
With a rinseless wash, you're hoping the wash media traps as much dirt as possible when washing and is then released into the rinse bucket. It will not trap ALL the dirt, especially when the car is heavily soiled. So, you're hoping the lubrication of the rinseless wash provides enough protection when wiping the remaining dirt, that it will not marr the paint. With a conventional wash, you're rinsing the paint of any dirt that was loosened and remains on the surface, THEN wiping. Bottom line, there's less chance of dirt on the paint when rinsing after a conventional wash as opposed to a rinseless wash.
Why is a rinseless wash NOT recommended on a heavy soiled car? That in itself should be enough to prove that a conventional wash is safer than a rinseless wash.
By the way, missing a spot has nothing to do with what I'm trying to say. If you miss the same spot while doing both methods, the point is moot. You don't have a better chance of not missing a spot with rinseless compared to conventional.
Setec Astronomy
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Respectfully, you live in Los Angeles, I'm not sure you really know what a "heavily soiled" car is compared to those of us that live in the rust belt.
But irrespective of that, I think you need to reexamine your rinseless process. Again, just like conventional washing, you need to agitate your wash media against the surface until the soil is removed. The number of passes required to achieve this depends on how dirty the car is, your media, and your wash technique. But with either method, if there is still dirt on the car when you go to dry it, YOU HAVEN'T DONE A GOOD JOB WASHING.
Again, I'm not arguing that rinseless is inferior, superior, or equivalent to conventional as far as marring is concerned. I've done both methods successfully and unsuccessfully, I really can't say definitively if one is "safer" (don't get me started on waterless though!).
I'm just saying that "proper" technique with rinseless is to make sure the panel is clean before you dry it; "if your drying towel gets dirty you're doing it wrong". I credit that lesson to Bence on another forum, that might have been back in the QEW days.
And going back to your quote above, I could just as easily replace "rinseless" with "conventional" and have a valid thought--if you are using a rinse bucket you are counting on the dirt being released from your wash media into it, regardless of the wash method, a problem that is negated by the Bill D/Bunky fresh media or single-wipe method (what some call the Garry Dean method).
PS I can't believe you are up before 5 AM arguing wash methods--you are hard-core man!
WRAPT C5Z06
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We can sit here and disagree until we're blue in the face, so, I guess it comes down to personal preference. :dblthumb2:
I was up at 4AM. :buffing:
Setec Astronomy
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4 AM is way too early...do you sleep man? Sure personal preference, it's all good. Way back rinseless was only a way for me to wash inside somewhere when it was below freezing outside. Then it became a way to wash outside when it was too close to freezing to drag out the hose.
The more rinseless washing I have done--well, you get more proficient at it (and the products have improved over the years, first QEW, then ONR, now newer versions of ONR and other products with wax/sealant etc.), and I can say at this point I'm not really sure if one is "safer" than the other, you modify your techniques with both depending on the amount/type of soil.
With either method, if the car is really dirty, you are going to rinse/change your media more frequently than if the car is just dusty, you adjust the pressure of your wipe, etc. Maybe if I did a lot of waterless washing I would be able to refine my technique to the point where I would consider it to be as safe as other forms of washing, which I currently don't.
The moral of the story is that at one time I considered a rinseless wash an act of desperation in the dead of winter to get my car clean, while here 10 years later, a rinseless is my first choice for a summer wash, anyway (by a small margin). Winter washing is complicated by salt residue, which is easier to disperse with a conventional wash, since it becomes dissolved in your wash water (although the single-use media idea with rinseless helps with this).
You gotta do what you are comfortable with, I'm just trying to say that I've become a lot more comfortable with rinseless the more I have done it.
2shiny
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I always 2BM, rinseless or traditional wash. That way i can use a mitt and rinse it as often as I want without going overboard on laundrey or having to buy cheap towels...
I do believe it is harder to get into the small cracks to clean with a rinseless.
When I see the multiple towel method, you just do 1 wipe over an area... You'll never get all the dirt with it. With my mitt, i do one wipe over the area, flip the mitt and go over it again, then rinse.
Then some WW to help with drying
I do believe it is harder to get into the small cracks to clean with a rinseless.
When I see the multiple towel method, you just do 1 wipe over an area... You'll never get all the dirt with it. With my mitt, i do one wipe over the area, flip the mitt and go over it again, then rinse.
Then some WW to help with drying
Setec Astronomy
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It's not one wipe over an area--it's one wipe with the towel. You use the towel until it's dirty, then get a fresh towel, instead of rinsing the towel (and maybe not getting all the dirt out of it). You do as many wipes over the "area" as it takes to get it clean.
allenk4
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"Respectfully, you live in Los Angeles, I'm not sure you really know what a "heavily soiled" car is compared to those of us that live in the rust belt"
I also live in LA now
It doesn't rain here much, but I can still reliably recognize precipitation.
So, please, "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" - Josey Wales
I also live in LA now
It doesn't rain here much, but I can still reliably recognize precipitation.
So, please, "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" - Josey Wales
frankprozzoly
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That went over my head. I would guess L.A. rain is a little different than Pittsburgh salt after a decent snow
allenk4
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Yes, rain is different than salt and is also different than its frozen cousin...snow
I have seen all three, but if "Pittsburg salt" is considerably different, then I have not seen that particular version of NaCl
My current residence does not impair my ability to recognize variations in the level of contamination on a painted vehicle
Bunky
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Although I use ONR less than 20% of the time (I have too many nice smelling soaps to use), I agree with comment that do not look at ONR as if it is some fixed regimen. You can pre-rinse, use like a traditional car wash in a two bucket method, etc. 1z Perls is more like sudsy ONR labeled as a car wash.
The interesting thing about ONR is how it clusters dirt into water drops.
Here is a before and after by just a single spray of ONR diluted 2 oz to 3 gallons sprayed through a Kwazar bottle as part of my pre-soak process. I do not see this with a typical car wash...it cannot be atomized like ONR.
Before
After ONR spray without any interaction..it wets the surface and gathers the dirt. If you let it dry, it will leave rings on dirt in the new drops but suspended while wet.
The interesting thing about ONR is how it clusters dirt into water drops.
Here is a before and after by just a single spray of ONR diluted 2 oz to 3 gallons sprayed through a Kwazar bottle as part of my pre-soak process. I do not see this with a typical car wash...it cannot be atomized like ONR.
Before
After ONR spray without any interaction..it wets the surface and gathers the dirt. If you let it dry, it will leave rings on dirt in the new drops but suspended while wet.
Setec Astronomy
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Um...Bunky? Wouldn't water do the same thing? I mean, isn't that how those dirty spots got there in the first place?
I find presoaking with ONR to be useless (although admittedly I use the standard dilution). I have done it during the winter, because my common sense is telling me I need to, however my eyes are telling me it doesn't do anything.
Back to the "leaving the dirt on the car because you aren't rinsing"...heck I pressure wash sometimes during the winter and that also leaves dirt on the car...the truth (at least the truth for me) is not all the dirt comes off the car without agitation/contact...whether you are pressure washing, foaming, conventional washing, or rinseless washing, so if you want the dirt to be off the car before you dry it, you have to wash it off.
I find presoaking with ONR to be useless (although admittedly I use the standard dilution). I have done it during the winter, because my common sense is telling me I need to, however my eyes are telling me it doesn't do anything.
Back to the "leaving the dirt on the car because you aren't rinsing"...heck I pressure wash sometimes during the winter and that also leaves dirt on the car...the truth (at least the truth for me) is not all the dirt comes off the car without agitation/contact...whether you are pressure washing, foaming, conventional washing, or rinseless washing, so if you want the dirt to be off the car before you dry it, you have to wash it off.
WRAPT C5Z06
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I do not use buckets on my car. Foam cannon with Bilt Hamber Autofoam, then power rinse. I use white towels with a waterless wash as a drying aid and my towels stay completely clean.
Setec Astronomy
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Yeah, and you've never had 6 months of no LSP refresh and salt and ice melter and road film on your car, either. This was the first winter since I became an "Autogeek" (10 years) that I have been unable to wash my cars during the winter...that's how bad it was. I was able to do a pressure wash to get the salt off one semi-warm day in November, I think.
I'm not sure if you CA guys appreciate what we go through in other parts of the country in regard to temperatures and the crap they put on the roads in the winter. It's not just salt anymore (which is not clean like table salt, it's rock salt with dirt and sand in it), they now use liquid ice melters and liquid pretreatments. Mix all that with the dirt and oil and antifreeze and exhaust soot and brake dust and tire dust that's on the road already, and you're in for a good time.
So you do a completely "touchless" wash? No wash mitt, sponge, etc?