Washing Microfiber towels - what temp ?

[kkritsilas]

Carpets are not microfiber, so that is an invalid, and way out comparison. I don't know of a lot of carpeting being used to polish paint, however, if you are, then you may have a point. I also don't walk on microfiber like I would on a carpet. Like I said, not an apple to apple comparison. There is however, plenty of anecdotal evidence, even in this thread, that warm and even cold water will get microfiber clean. The people I cited above are also well established detailers, and have no reason to provide any false/misleading information. There is NO cash to be made by any of the above people by recommending warm water washing vs. hot.water washing. In Gay Dean's case, and The Rag Company's case, both of whom sell microfiber towels, it is to their benefit to have their microfiber washed in hot, in the hope that the towels would be damaged so that they can sell you more towels.

Your microfiber SHOULD NOT HAVE HEAVY STAINS, GRIT, OIL, OR GREASE ON THEM. What exactly are you using your microfiber towels for, anyway? You should not be mixing your paint microfiber towels, either (paint only, interior only, engine compartment only). If your microfiber has genuine grit on it, as opposed to compound or polish residue, then you should be outside re-polishing your car. If they do get stains or grease on them, either throw them out, or move them to engine compartment duty. How many times has it been said that mixing microfiber towels should not be done? Not by me, but by a lot better qualified people than I. see above list of people that I have cited.

Woolite can be used for a lot of things. Delicates, in terms of clothes/garments, are washed in cold water for a number of reasons. One of which is that the colors may run. Another is because the delicates may shrink. It can also be that some delicates will not stand up to hot water (see silk, some microfiber shirts, and pretty much all clothes that need to be dry cleaned). An additional one is that most delicates don't really get that dirty, they are worn very briefly, at most for 12-15 hours every few months, in usually very benign environments, so they don't get a chance to get dirty. How many /heaby equipment/jack hammer operators/mechanics have you seen wearing silk shirts? How many fancy dress shirts at a formal affair do you think have ever had heavy grease stains?

 

[Eldorado2k]

Carpets are not microfiber, so that is an invalid, and way out comparison. I don't know of a lot of carpeting being used to polish paint, however, if you are, then you may have a point.

Who are you directing that comment towards? If you're talking to me, I Never use the steamer to clean carpets... You can search my posts, I'm 1 of the only people who has always stated that it's absolutely useless for cleaning carpets and upholstery. Lol.

Only time I break out my steamer is when I've got some leather interior that needs cleaning. So I don't know why you're talking about carpets. Lol.

I'm talking about cleaning in general... For example, when you fill a mop bucket, do you choose to fill it with hot or cold water + whatever cleaner you're going to use in the water? I dunno about you, but I will always, naturally fill it with hot water vs. cold... Because it's going to clean better. Common sense.

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[fightnews]

I have a bucket of microfiber towels soaking in 3D towel Kleen overnight to wash tomorrow,I will dry them on low heat but which temp do you all find is best for the wash cycle?

ive been doing mine hot but ive read it being recommended both ways from people who sell the detergents

 

[fightnews]

I'm with Mantligh, hot and high.



This information is just false. I don't know why TRC keeps pushing this false data, I had seen them do it through Yvan at OPT, and apparently through the Junkman also. Here's a chart of melting points in degrees C: Polyamide plays an important role in automotive, electronic and packaging . The lowest melting temperature is 352 F.

I'm not sure which polyamide grade is commonly used for MF towels, but even if you look at the heat distortion temperature the lowest temperature, converted to degrees F, is 239. And if you look at Nylon 6, or 6,6, which are the most common and what I would suspect towels are made of, that heat distortion is temp is 338 and 437 F, while the melting temps are 431 and 500 F.

well maybe it doesnt melt but it def changes the towel color and softness, i use the gold plush and i dried a few on high before i switched to low. it didnt ruin the towel but it def changed it in a negative way color and texture

 

[PA DETAILER]

I was informed always wash with COLD. Air dry.

 

[fightnews]

Who are you directing that comment towards? If you're talking to me, I Never use the steamer to clean carpets... You can search my posts, I'm 1 of the only people who has always stated that it's absolutely useless for cleaning carpets and upholstery. Lol.

Only time I break out my steamer is when I've got some leather interior that needs cleaning. So I don't know why you're talking about carpets. Lol.

I'm talking about cleaning in general... For example, when you fill a mop bucket, do you choose to fill it with hot or cold water + whatever cleaner you're going to use in the water? I dunno about you, but I will always, naturally fill it with hot water vs. cold... Because it's going to clean better. Common sense.

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all dishwashers run on hot water, commercial dish washers get boosted up to 180 degrees, just throwing it out there

 

[james751993]

I wash my MFs cold with an extra rinse cycle to get rid of any residual detergents.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

My recollection may have been wrong, or it could have been the polyester that starts to melt at 140F, or the combination of Polyester and Polyamide. Even if incorrect, the whole question becomes what does hot water get you over warm water? By all accounts, warm water with a good for microfiber soap seems to get the microfiber clean just fine. So why use hot? The TRC has nothing to gain financially from telling people to wash in warm vs. hot, so there is no ulterior motive that I can see. Seeing as they are a vendor who has specific knowledge of the product

Basic question to be asked remains: What improvement are you getting by washing microfiber towels at hot vs. warm?

Well, you're right, in a sense. After checking, I see that polyester has a glass transition temperature of 140°F. Clearly TRC, for whatever reason, has latched onto this piece of data to spread erroneous information through the internet like they are running for president. The only problem is, they don't understand what they are talking about. The melting point of polyester is over 400°F.

To quote the Polymer Science Learning Center: "It's tempting to think of the glass transition as a kind of melting of the polymer. But this is an inaccurate way of looking at things. There are a lot of important differences between the glass transition and melting."

Just as a reference point...you use a lot of things ABOVE the glass transition temperature (Tg)...like your tires, you'd better hope you are using them above the Tg or you might break a hole in the side when you hit a pothole.

As to why hot water cleans better...you have to go back to chemistry, physics, and oh, in general, science (which some posters in this thread have a stated hatred for), which of course also helps you understand the differences between Tg and melting point. The basic reason hot water cleans better is the higher the temperature, the more molecular activity, which means the soils, surfactants, and substrates have a better chance of interacting in the way you want for cleaning.

If you've ever wondered why it's harder to start your car on a cold morning, well, the answer lies in science, where the electrons in your battery don't want to move around as easily, and the molecules in your oil don't want to move past each other as easily, resulting in more friction and less electricity.

 

[Eldorado2k]

Your microfiber SHOULD NOT HAVE HEAVY STAINS, GRIT, OIL, OR GREASE ON THEM. What exactly are you using your microfiber towels for, anyway? You should not be mixing your paint microfiber towels, either (paint only, interior only, engine compartment only). If your microfiber has genuine grit on it, as opposed to compound or polish residue, then you should be outside re-polishing your car. If they do get stains or grease on them, either throw them out, or move them to engine compartment duty. How many times has it been said that mixing microfiber towels should not be done?

My microfiber towels shouldn't have any grit on them eh? Well what exactly do you think happens when I do a rinseless/waterless wash? Do you think I'm out there wiping down a perfectly clean car?

Grit/dirt on microfiber towel from simply wiping down half of the hood.

Towel after wiping down the entire hood.

This is what 1 of my microfiber towels typically looks like after performing a waterless wash onthe entire car. This towel only cleaned the paint.

But according to you I should probably throw this towel out or "move it to engine compartment duty"... And I should also be outside re-polishing my car...

1st of all my paint remains swirl free at all times, so I don't need to be polishing anything. Lol. 2nd of all, you can see why I prefer to use hot water to wash my microfiber towels, because they get dirty. News flash-even paint towels get real dirty!

And thanks for helping me provide a perfect example as to why I use Kirklands for my waterless/rinseless wash duties, and save my good towels [Meguiars Ultimate Wipes] for compound/polish removal.
I do not mix my microfiber towels. Nor do I inflict swirls onto paint. My cat finds your comments a bit insulting. Lol.

@Setec Astronomy. Just to clarify, I don't hate science, I hate NASA, because they're a bunch of liars.. But this isn't the time nor the place to get into that. But I don't hate science.





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[Setec Astronomy]

I don't hate science, I hate NASA, because they're a bunch of liars..

Don't tell me you haven't gotten over that fake moon landing thing yet, that was almost 50 years ago!

 

[Eldorado2k]

Don't tell me you haven't gotten over that fake moon landing thing yet, that was almost 50 years ago!

That, the fake Mars rover footage, the utterly ridiculous black & white video footage from the Cassini mission to Saturn, the fact that those bozos can't even produce a picture of the entire globe since their fake picture from the 1972 Apollo moon mission, the always cgi footage from the Hubble Telescope [why don't they zoom in and take some pictures of the lunar landing sites]?

I could go on and on... I hate liars.


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[jlturpin]

I found that the Griots PFM towels, washing multiple colors caused the grey ones to bleed color onto the white PFM towels, and a few of my lighter colored microfiber. They also ruined the color of a few of my New foam pads. This was before I purchased my Universal pad washer. This was on warm, so now my white PFM are light grey. Some of my yellow look dingy. They still work fine, but they cause my OCD to go into overdrive.

I now only use cold if washing any of the PFM towels in a load and the Chemical Guys mf cleaner does a great job on cold. I dry on warm.

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[Rsurfer]

In Gay Dean's case, and The Rag Company's case, both of whom sell microfiber towels, it is to their benefit to have their microfiber washed in hot, in the hope that the towels would be damaged so that they can sell you more towels.



Give me a break, they should tell their customers to wash in bleach and softeners in order to sell more towels.

 

[dlc95]

I've been washing cold, but I feel they get cleaner with warm or hot.

Some towels were cycled in with hot water / medium heat drying, and are not anywhere near as "soft" as the ones cycled in with warm water / low heat dry.

?

Why? I never gave it much thought because they both perform well on the paint. Because I like the feel, I tend to stick to warm water / low heat dry.

 

[kkritsilas]

Who are you directing that comment towards? If you're talking to me, I Never use the steamer to clean carpets... You can search my posts, I'm 1 of the only people who has always stated that it's absolutely useless for cleaning carpets and upholstery. Lol.

Only time I break out my steamer is when I've got some leather interior that needs cleaning. So I don't know why you're talking about carpets. Lol.

I'm talking about cleaning in general... For example, when you fill a mop bucket, do you choose to fill it with hot or cold water + whatever cleaner you're going to use in the water? I dunno about you, but I will always, naturally fill it with hot water vs. cold... Because it's going to clean better. Common sense.

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I was directing the carpet statement to Rsurfer's comment regarding washing carpet stains with warm water or hot water. I made no comment on steam extractors.

Some common sense is not correct. See the above regarding bleach. The bleach got clothes whiter, yes. It also destroyed the fibers and shortened the life of the fabric. What passes for common sense, the whole "that's the way things have always been done" idea, may not reflect advances. The newer compounds and polishes that are available today are a clear reflection of that. Cars used to be polished with rotary polishers exclusively, after the Porter Cable 7424 came along, things changed, for the much better. Similarly, hot water may be fine for cotton, linen, etc. It is not fine for a lot of microfiber. I have 5 microfiber shirts. They specifically say to wash cold. I would put forth the idea that the microfiber cloth in the shirts that I own is much, much closer to a microfiber towel in its make up, than the previously mentioned carpet, and is probably the wash instructions for the shirts are far closer to what should be the norm for microfiber towels.

As for your mop anology, again, that is invalid. You are going to use the mop on hardwood, laminate flooring, coated concrete, tile, or vinyl flooring, none of which are microfiber. What works for regular clothes doesn't necessarily apply to microfiber. This is why I said that the manufacturer's instructions should be followed, Like it or not, they are the ones that know their products best. If not, at least follow the recommendations of some recognized people in the field.

 

[kkritsilas]

You should not be doing RW or WW on cars with grit. If you are uncertain if the cars has grit on it or not, invest in a foam cannon set up, or do to a local DIY wash that uses the pressure washers. There is no RW or WW product on the market that can emulsify grit. All videos, from any source, take great pains to state than any grit on a car is to be washed off prior to doing an RW or WW.

If you are getting real grit on your microfiber on your towels when doing a WW/RW, you have just scratched your paint. And I didn't say dirt, I said heavy stains/grease.

Cats are cats. They find humans of any type an annoyancem and barely tolerate them. As I have stated to a lot of my friends, if cats were the size of large dogs, we'd all be cat food.

 

[Eldorado2k]

Like it or not, they are the ones that know their products best. If not, at least follow the recommendations of some recognized people in the field.

You have your way of thinking and I have mine.. At this point I don't think either 1 of us is ever going to change the others mind.

As far as you putting your faith into the manufacturers recommendations, Gary Dean [who you've referenced here] has stated himself that manufacturers recommended dilution ratios are a bunch of PC bull mostly meant to prevent the most incompetent people out there from ruining [in this case] their microfiber towels. Watch his recent video about dilution ratios, he even includes his own products to be guilty of the same "user safe" recommendations...

"They know their products best".... Yea, tell that to the people who jailbreak their iPhones and have 100% more features than sticking to the instruction manual. The same thing could be said for countless other products. I prefer to have the freedom to adjust things to my preference if it gives me better results. That's why you don't see me buying a gallon of "claylube"... I simply use Megs D114 instead, the manufacturer didn't recommend that on the label though, so I guess you'd never use it.



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[Bill1234]

Larry at ammo nyc recommends to use hot water to break down and remove dirt but then to do not use hot air to dry or it will remove the static charge and destroy the towel

 

[kkritsilas]

You have your way of thinking and I have mine.. At this point I don't think either 1 of us is ever going to change the others mind.

As far as you putting your faith into the manufacturers recommendations, Gary Dean [who you've referenced here] has stated himself that manufacturers recommended dilution ratios are a bunch of PC bull mostly meant to prevent the most incompetent people out there from ruining [in this case] their microfiber towels. Watch his recent video about dilution ratios, he even includes his own products to be guilty of the same "user safe" recommendations...

"They know their products best".... Yea, tell that to the people who jailbreak their iPhones and have 100% more features than sticking to the instruction manual. The same thing could be said for countless other products. I prefer to have the freedom to adjust things to my preference if it gives me better results. That's why you don't see me buying a gallon of "claylube"... I simply use Megs D114 instead, the manufacturer didn't recommend that on the label though, so I guess you'd never use it.



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I have pretty much stated my views on the hot water vs. warm water for washing microfiber. As you said, I won't be changing your mind, nor will you change mine.

However, the iPhone jailbreaking is a great point that was raised, but not in the way that you referred to it. Jail=breaking iPhones definitely gives you more "featuress", however, it also makes the phone far less secure. Is Apple incorrect in locking down the phone? I don't think so. What happens if one of programs on a jailbroken iPhone bricks the phone? Or causes battery issues? Or leaks personal data to a Chinese server? Don't go crying to Apple, or to anybody else.

In the vast majority of cases, the manufacturers do know their products best. Do you follow the instructions from your compound/polish/wax manufacturer? Or do you choose not to follow them, and get substandard results? And by thing I am talking about washing a car in bright sunshime, or with the paint at excessively high temperatures? Ues you can exceed whatever the manufacturer recommends. There is NOTHING preventing you from doing so. However, if the results are not as expected, you know the first thing that the manufacturer will ask is did you follow the instructions (in not so many words). As soon as the truth comes out, that coversation ends there.

 

[hdez]

Another vote for hot water for wash and dry them with low temp. For very soiled towels I use Oxy Clean and let the sit for the entire night.