Wax over a sealent, how is it so?

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fj610

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Im new here so please be gentle, im just trying to get my head around this!

Ive read just about everywhere about people applying a wax over a sealent for added depth of colour and durability. But how does a wax bond to a sealent? What's the science behind it? When a sealent is applied and cured over a painted surface, the finnish is smooth and slippery. I would have thought this is the very worst substrate you can possibly have to bond a wax to. The sealents main purpose in life is to stop things sticking to it, so what makes wax so special that it can?

So this had me thinking when i was recently detailing my car. I missed a couple of small spots of road tar on the lower side skirts. I only noticed it when i was applying the Fuzion with an applicator pad. I went over the tar with the fuzion a few times and to my surprise they came off. Since Fuzion has no cleaners, im wondering what removed the tar? The spots which i didn't apply Fuzion to were quite stubborn. For sure there must be some kind of carrier in the Fuzion to keep it pliable in the tub which is then released into the air when it is applied. Im thinking it could be a solvent based carrier since Fuzion does have a chemical smell to it. So if the carrier did indeed remove the spots of tar off the skirts, what will it then do to the sealent if i chose to layer my LSP? Surely it can't be good for the layer of sealent that ive spent good time and money applying.

Lets say for now Fuzion will not harm the sealent which is underneath it. For those like me who use DGS and Fuzion, im sure you have noticed a big difference is slickness between the two. If the Fuzion does layer over the top of DGS without any detremental effects to it, why is it after 6 - 8 weeks when the Fuzion finally fails, i don't see the return of the extremely slick DGS for another 6 months? Its almost as if the DGS wasn't applied in the first place.
 
I never top a sealant with a wax. It just doesn't make any sense to me. However, there's lots of people who do.
 
fj610 said:
Im new here so please be gentle, im just trying to get my head around this!

Ive read just about everywhere about people applying a wax over a sealent for added depth of colour and durability. But how does a wax bond to a sealent? What's the science behind it? When a sealent is applied and cured over a painted surface, the finnish is smooth and slippery. I would have thought this is the very worst substrate you can possibly have to bond a wax to. The sealents main purpose in life is to stop things sticking to it, so what makes wax so special that it can?

So this had me thinking when i was recently detailing my car. I missed a couple of small spots of road tar on the lower side skirts. I only noticed it when i was applying the Fuzion with an applicator pad. I went over the tar with the fuzion a few times and to my surprise they came off. Since Fuzion has no cleaners, im wondering what removed the tar? The spots which i didn't apply Fuzion to were quite stubborn. For sure there must be some kind of carrier in the Fuzion to keep it pliable in the tub which is then released into the air when it is applied. Im thinking it could be a solvent based carrier since Fuzion does have a chemical smell to it. So if the carrier did indeed remove the spots of tar off the skirts, what will it then do to the sealent if i chose to layer my LSP? Surely it can't be good for the layer of sealent that ive spent good time and money applying.

Lets say for now Fuzion will not harm the sealent which is underneath it. For those like me who use DGS and Fuzion, im sure you have noticed a big difference is slickness between the two. If the Fuzion does layer over the top of DGS without any detremental effects to it, why is it after 6 - 8 weeks when the Fuzion finally fails, i don't see the return of the extremely slick DGS for another 6 months? Its almost as if the DGS wasn't applied in the first place.
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You are correct about the solvents in waxes. That's why you really can't layer waxes. Using cold water on the second application will help dissolve the solvents. When applying a wax over a sealant I wait at least a week to let the sealant fully cure before applying a wax and alwalys use water when applying the wax to help dissolve the solvents.
 
Well today my car looked absolutely brilliant with the Fuzion applied after the WG paintwork polish enhancer. The first time around i did the whole PPE, followed with DGS, waited 24 hours then topped with Fuzion. To be honest i think it looks better with just the Fuzion.
Gee its a wonderful wax, very happy with it! My colour is orange with a pearl and metallic gold flake, and the flake was really noticeable after the Fuzion.
 
I sometimes do it just because I love waxing my car. But, I can't comment on what is happening on a molecular level.
 
Anyone else with some information on this? Autogeek staff maby?
 
This is an old debate about whether carriers and solvents in products will effectively prevent layering of the same or different products. I don't think you will get any definitive answer on this, both camps have their viewpoints, and as noted, on the molecular level the whole phenomenon is extremely difficult to test/measure due to there perhaps being only a few molecules thickness of product left on the panel after application. I thought somewhere on another site someone actually did an electron microscope or some such experiment with this and actually came up with some surprising data but nothing that was really much help in the real world.
 
I seal and once it's cured I apply a coat of wax. I think it bonds because I've never found a pile of wax on the floor in the garage the next morning...
 
Some will put a coat of sealant for durability, then top with wax for looks. Well, if the sealant bonds to the paint, the wax must bond to the sealant since the sealant is already protecting the paint, correct? Seems a bit far out to me, but I'm not a chemist. Also, if the wax can't penetrate the paint, how can it change the look of the paint, unless it burns through the sealant? Way to many things going on here. Now, if you did another coat of the same sealant, that would make sense.

I'll stick to my one coat of Sig Series II. :)
 
fj610 said:
Im new here so please be gentle, im just trying to get my head around this!

Ive read just about everywhere about people applying a wax over a sealent for added depth of colour and durability. But how does a wax bond to a sealent? What's the science behind it? When a sealent is applied and cured over a painted surface, the finnish is smooth and slippery. I would have thought this is the very worst substrate you can possibly have to bond a wax to. The sealents main purpose in life is to stop things sticking to it, so what makes wax so special that it can?

So this had me thinking when i was recently detailing my car. I missed a couple of small spots of road tar on the lower side skirts. I only noticed it when i was applying the Fuzion with an applicator pad. I went over the tar with the fuzion a few times and to my surprise they came off. Since Fuzion has no cleaners, im wondering what removed the tar? The spots which i didn't apply Fuzion to were quite stubborn. For sure there must be some kind of carrier in the Fuzion to keep it pliable in the tub which is then released into the air when it is applied. Im thinking it could be a solvent based carrier since Fuzion does have a chemical smell to it. So if the carrier did indeed remove the spots of tar off the skirts, what will it then do to the sealent if i chose to layer my LSP? Surely it can't be good for the layer of sealent that ive spent good time and money applying.

Lets say for now Fuzion will not harm the sealent which is underneath it. For those like me who use DGS and Fuzion, im sure you have noticed a big difference is slickness between the two. If the Fuzion does layer over the top of DGS without any detremental effects to it, why is it after 6 - 8 weeks when the Fuzion finally fails, i don't see the return of the extremely slick DGS for another 6 months? Its almost as if the DGS wasn't applied in the first place.
Click to expand...

It makes sense that a wax with cleaning properties would displace any LSP already in place.

So then do you think layering sealant is also a waste? Additionally, along this line of thinking, the only purpose to layering is to ensure no surface goes unprotected, correct?

This kind of reminds me of the comments about which sealant has a "better" look. I've seen photos of multiple waxes and sealants on the same surface and in my old eyes, I could not see any difference whatsoever. Maybe in person the differences would have been more obvious?

I haven't tried wax over sealant, but I'm not ready to rule it out until I try it.
 
07 z-oh-6 said:
Some will put a coat of sealant for durability, then top with wax for looks. Well, if the sealant bonds to the paint, the wax must bond to the sealant since the sealant is already protecting the paint, correct? Seems a bit far out to me, but I'm not a chemist. Also, if the wax can't penetrate the paint, how can it change the look of the paint, unless it burns through the sealant? Way to many things going on here. Now, if you did another coat of the same sealant, that would make sense.

I'll stick to my one coat of Sig Series II. :)
Click to expand...

The way we see differences between wax and sealant may be how light waves are being affected by the wax and sealant layers.

We only see reflected light waves from the paint/wax/sealant interface, so the paint/wax/sealant absorbs the light wavelengths that we don't see. That's not completely true, the wax and sealant may also refract, scatter or diffract the light waves from the sun or light source, so it may appear that you see a slightly different color especially with different light sources or viewing angles.

Remember the darkening of paint with certain waxes or sealants? The light wavelengths and energies reflected off the paint with wax would be different from the the paint without wax. Scratches and oxidation on the paint will also change the light being absorbed by the paint too.
 
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