What is the BEST Finishing/Jeweling polish to use AFTER Meguiars 205 with a Flex or PC for that extra gloss?

I jewelled the basecoat/clearcoat paint on this car using a black Hybrid finishing pad and the new product from Menzerna...

I used the 4.0 speed setting and a light touch....


Little Deuce Coupe - Hotrod Detailing

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:)

Oh Thank you Mike. I always thought Jewleing was done at high speeds (5-6) with light and easy pressure.
 
Oh Thank you Mike. I always thought Jeweling was done at high speeds (5-6) with light and easy pressure.

I guess that depends on who's advice you follow....


I'm just sharing my opinion based upon experience. I'm not sure I would want to run any polisher including a rotary buffer at high speed down the middle of a large black panel and then cross my fingers and hope it looks good forever.

I'd say go out into your garage and actually do some jewelling to an entire car and then come back and let us know what speed setting impressed you.

The one thing I never see anyone point out when they talk about jewelling an entire car is the importance of working clean. I know I've typed about it.


:)
 
Joe, you are hilarious!
Jeweling is a term that Todd Helme coined awhile ago.

In his words and from what I recall...
He wanted to define ultra-fine polishing with a specific term so he could gauge how long it would be before other guys started to use it.

Obviously, it didn't take long to catch on.

For guys like us, it's the same as final polishing to the finest degree.
Hey- let's see how long it takes to make this phrase catch on:

"...I Joe'd the paint for an hour, until she was shinney' like a new penny..." :props:

Straight from the Maestro himself..! :bowdown:

As I scrolled down and read through this thread after Joe's hilarious comment I thought, "Isn't anyone going to laugh at Joe's post?" Good one...LOL!!!

LOL!!! Looks like I got duped into an old thread. Anyway, still pretty funny comment from Joe. Hope there wasn't some underlying tone to those comments that I'm not aware about...if so, I'm not interested in any part of that.
 
Jeweling with my rotary is always done with slooowwwweeeerrrr speeds than my correction/cutting steps. I'm going to now try that with negative pressure using Mike's finger technique. I always used the weight of the machine as the lightest pressure applied. I can now lift slightly and still let the ultra fine pad and product work continue to work a little more gloss. That's another reason i like the Menzerna fine polishes so much. It seems you can work them almost forever.
 
I like the fact that you did! :props:


•If it doesn't have to be a jeweling-polish, having any of the all new chemicals and technology that can be considered "better" than Menzerna P085RD...
-I'll say: 3M Ultrafina Polish.

•If it has to be one of the newer/latest jeweling-polishes (not so sure if it contains any of the "newer" chemicals/technologies, or not) that can be considered "better" than Menzerna P085RD...
-I'll say: GTechnq P2 Jeweling Polish (if still available)


Bob

What's your impressions on the P2? Do others consider it to be better than the Menzerna SF4500 (PO85RD)? Thank you!
 
What's your impressions on the P2? Do others consider it to be better than the Menzerna SF4500 (PO85RD)? Thank you!
•For me:
-P2 worked flawlessly as a "jeweling polish" with a DA...
(designed to also work with a rotary)

-I always had better results using a rotary, rather than a DA, when using SF4500 for "jeweling purposes".

Bob
 
Jeweling with my rotary is always done with slooowwwweeeerrrr speeds than my correction/cutting steps. I'm going to now try that with negative pressure using Mike's finger technique. I always used the weight of the machine as the lightest pressure applied. I can now lift slightly and still let the ultra fine pad and product work continue to work a little more gloss. That's another reason i like the Menzerna fine polishes so much. It seems you can work them almost forever.

I just heard that Menzerna Polishes have polishing oils and gloss enhancers within them that enhance the "look" of the finish after being broken down. As a result, what you see is not trule what you get as some of the oils fill in and the gloss enhancers also add that ZIP! Again what I just recently learned.

•For me:
-P2 worked flawlessly as a "jeweling polish" with a DA...
(designed to also work with a rotary)

-I always had better results using a rotary, rather than a DA, when using SF4500 for "jeweling purposes".

Bob

So is P2 the new "Secret Menzerna Product"

Also where does P2 fit in against SF4500 (85RD)?
 
what I just recently learned

So is P2 the new "Secret Menzerna Product"?
^^^That's: Interesting.^^^

Besides just recently learning about some of Menzerna's polishing oils and gloss enhancers attributes: Have you also just recently learned that GTechniq and Menzerna merged?

If true:
Please share any merger-details, that you are able to provide. TIA.


Bob
 
^^^That's: Interesting.^^^

Besides just recently learning about some of Menzerna's polishing oils and gloss enhancers attributes: Have you also just recently learned that GTechniq and Menzerna merged?

If true:
Please share any merger-details, that you are able to provide. TIA.


Bob

I honestly did not know that they merged, it's news to me just now.

Wow, I wonder what new and interesting products this merger will bring to the detailing world.
 
Jeweling is a term that Todd Helme coined awhile ago.


Actually, Todd Helme states he did not coin the term. See post #5


Todd Helme DID make the term popular.


I'm very good at giving due credit where credit is due. If fact in my how-to book, both the first and second edition I give you credit for the KBM.



In his words and from what I recall...
He wanted to define ultra-fine polishing with a specific term so he could gauge how long it would be before other guys started to use it.

Obviously, it didn't take long to catch on.

What I wrote in post #15 is that Todd made the term popular in the forum world, due credit where credit is due...



For guys like us, it's the same as final polishing to the finest degree.

I've always just called it finish polishing but jewelling is good too...




Jeweling with my rotary is always done with slooowwwweeeerrrr speeds than my correction/cutting steps.

I'm going to now try that with negative pressure using Mike's finger technique.


You want to use a soft touch....


Less than the weight of the machine
This is showing that we're actually using a little bit less than the weight of the machine for the last few passes for this section.

1990_Corvette_Autogeek_Mike_Phillips_061.jpg




I always used the weight of the machine as the lightest pressure applied. I can now lift slightly and still let the ultra fine pad and product work continue to work a little more gloss.

If you pay attention, you'll see that as your jewelling pad becomes wet with product it will collapse because it loses its rigidity... you need to switch to a clean, dry jewelling pad when this happens or you will HAVE to use the weight of the machine.



I always say...

Polishing paint is an art form not a grinding process. It requires the human elements of care and passion for the task at hand it's not simply a step 1, step 2, step 3 process.



That is in the context of taking a car's paint to it's maximum potential.




Hmmm...you jeweled with the new product from Menzerna...is that the one that is a secret??

Yes. I love this product. It's probably not what most of you would consider a true jewelling polish but what I saw with my eyes was as I worked the product over the paint the paint become so crystal clear and wet looking and to me this is the goal of jewelling.


Or did I miss an announcement??

I don't think it's been announced yet on this forum at least.



Thank you for the information Mike.

Always a pleasure... here's something I wrote to put jewelling in context of the big picture for those that might not have a lot of multiple-step complete buff-outs under their belt....


The jewelling step is done after machine polishing, it's an EXTRA step. If a person is doing great work to start with, then after the first machine polishing step the paint should already look pretty damn good.

Jewelling is to "try" to squeeze just a little more gloss and shine out of already great results. THEREFORE you won't see any dramatic before and after shots, the differences will be subtle. IF the differences are dramatic that means the person doesn't know what they're doing in the first place.

Most pro detailers I know that would do a multiple-step process to a car's finish would do this,

  • Wash or wipe the car clean - You cannot inspect dirty paint
  • Inspect the paint visually and tactically
  • If above surface bonded contaminants are discovered, REMOVE THEM FIRST before machine polishing - Get them off the surface
  • IF the paint has below surface defects, then do a TEST SPOT, determine what is needed to remove the defects using the least aggressive products and approach so that you remove the defects while leaving the most paint on the car. That's professionalism at its core.

    IF, and those are two capital letters, IF the paint needs compounding, then compound it. If not then use a less aggressive polish like a Medium Cut Polish or a Fine Cut Polish, whatever it takes to get the job done. Categories of products are defined on page 79 of my how-to book.
  • Normal Process - Compound & Polish: If the paint was compounded, then AFTER the paint is compound a Pro would then machine polish to remove any haze or swirls left by the machine compounding step. AT THIS POINT, assuming the Pro knows what they are doing and are using good pads, good products and good technique, the paint should look pretty damn good, even GREAT.
  • Jewelling - A THIRD Machine Step: AS AN OPTION, a Pro or an enthusiast could jewel the paint. A Pro would only do it if they were being paid for their time because it means re-buffing the entire car or the major gloss panels. Time is money. A pro might do this to build their reputation or maintain their reputation but again, time is money.
  • An enthusiast on the other hand working on their own car has all the time in the world and can work on their own car for free. That said, after compounding and polishing, or if you only have to "polish" the paint, after either approach the paint should already look pretty damn good. Thus... no dramatic before and after.
Make sense? Jewelling is the third machine polishing step. This means a LOT of time overall and the jewelling step can't be rushed so imagine after machine compounding and machine polishing, taking the time to machine polish a third time.

And for this third time you have to WORK CLEAN. That means you need to have thoroughly wiped off any previous residues off the surface AND out of all the edges, cracks and crevices so there's no potential for these built-up residues to be pulled into the jewelling step while buffing. This takes even more time.


It's really hard to capture subtle differences at this level, at this degree of perfection with a camera. Heck it's hard to see it with the naked eye in person.


My guess is for the majority of people, the idea of jeweling the paint on their own cars or for a customers car is completely hypothetical because in practice we're talking about adding an extra 2, 3, even 4 hours to an already long job.

In the video below,

  1. I sanded the car twice.
  2. I compounded the car once with a rotary buffer.
  3. I machine polished the car once with a rotary buffer.
  4. I machine polished a second time with a dual action polisher.
  5. I machine applied the wax.
In-between each step I carefully wiped off all residues so they would not contaminate the next step. (Working Clean)

I did this job in about 12 hours and I would never recommend to anyone to try to do this type of work this fast.

How to wet sand a car


[video=youtube_share;5zDuFzvKSAI"]How to wet sand a car[/video]​



To ensure a hologram free finish forever for my third polishing step I switched over to a DA Polisher. This could also be considered a jewelling step as I used a soft foam finishing pad, perfect technique and a fine cut polish.

The results matched the work performed....

In the garage....

64_Malibu_Show_Car_Makeover_020.jpg




In full sun...

64_Malibu_Show_Car_Makeover_023.jpg



More pictures here....

How to wet sand a car - Time Lapse Video



Jewelling, Finish Polishing, Final Polishing, etc. the big picture is to work clean, use your best technique, use a fine cut to ultra fine cut polish and a soft foam pad.

Then pour your heart into it....


:)
 
I just heard that Menzerna Polishes have polishing oils and gloss enhancers within them that enhance the "look" of the finish after being broken down.

As a result, what you see is not trule what you get as some of the oils fill in and the gloss enhancers also add that ZIP! Again what I just recently learned.

That can be said for any quality polish as the polishing oils lubricate the surface to prevent the abrasives from scouring the paint.

This is I think people tend to go overboard in over analyzing products and forget the entire reason we're all polishing the paint is to make it look good.

If you remove the lubrication elements from an abrading product the paint is not going to look good. Might as well mix up some sand and water and go to town.


I recently tested the new SONAX EX 04-06 and CUTMAX and noticed both product displayed what is called the sweating characteristic. My guess is this has to do with the water base.

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So is P2 the new "Secret Menzerna Product"

P2 is a GTechniq polish. It's not a Menzerna product. I have not heard nor read anywhere of a merger between GTechniq and Menzerna.


:dunno:
 
•For me:
-P2 worked flawlessly as a "jeweling polish" with a DA...
(designed to also work with a rotary)

-I always had better results using a rotary, rather than a DA, when using SF4500 for "jeweling purposes".

Bob

Thank you Sir,

You've always been very helpful with my ignorant questions. I appreciate it! I have been using the SF4500 and am looking forward to using the P2 for comparison.




Mr. Phillips Sir,

You provide some of the most helpful answers and tutorials available anywhere. Very Classy!

I have a graet deal of interest in the new Menzerna polish. They manufacture some high grade products.
 
Thanks again, Mike. Further "refinement" tips are always appreciated. The importance of always working clean is reinforced by replacing loaded up pads when needed too. Will try that.
 
I got really great results jeweling with a DA, but I went with the smaller Rupes 3" with a Rupes finish pad and some Sonax PF. Using the smaller machine I was able to get pad rotation I wanted and was able to really pull out the gloss.





HUMP
 
Thank you again Mike.

I've seen the "Jeweling" term. Never paid that much attention. I guess going from Hyper Polish and a white pad to Optimum Finishing Polish and a gray pad with a light touch is pretty much "Jeweling" even though I wasn't using a true "Jeweling" pad


I finally broke down and bought the 4500. Now it sounds like this new product may be one that brings out a little more gloss. Oh well it's only money!! lol
 
I had to get rid of some holograms..3M Ultrafine to the rescue... Easy. Ok but, just how fast can I get the polisher going with this amazing product? I was cruising at 2500 RPMs and stood there in off of just how good 3M made the stuff.. I mean?? it has an open worktime that's unsurpassed. I would reckon the Menzoina SP 4000 to be the only polish that could come close to it
 
does adding this jeweling step do anything for a white car, since you don't get the reflections like other colors?
 
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