What is the black button thing for on top of Griot's 6" DA orbital?

BGAndrea

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First Generation Griot's Polisher
(Won't rotate a pad under pressure - Useless for removing swirls - New version is the way to go)


Hello,

I was just given an old model Griot's Garage 6" DA random orbital. I am curious as to what the small black circle is on top of the unit, in front of the handle.

It seems as if it can be pushed and slightly turned, and I hear something moving when I push it, but I have no idea what it is. I don't want to ruin the unit, so I have not yet tried pushing it with the unit on.

Thanks!

:xyxthumbs:
 
< Never used the 1st gen Griots


Hello,
I was just given an old model Griot's Garage 6" DA random orbital. I am curious as to what the small black circle is on top of the unit, in front of the handle. It seems as if it can be pushed and slightly turned, and I hear something moving when I push it, but I have no idea what it is. I don't want to ruin the unit, so I have not yet tried pushing it with the unit on.

Thanks!

Does it release the backing plate?!?!?
 
Don't hold back Mark, tell us how you really feel
 
No, I thought so but then I read a Griot's article on how to change the backing plate and it was not mentioned.

I would recommend you call Griots, but the ppl who answer their phones are clueless

If you ship it to me I will figure it out for you
salute.gif
 
Maybe it locks the spindle to facilitate backing plate changes. I dont have one, so I cant check it. A lot of my tools do have that feature though. I dont think any of them are random orbital though.

Puch it down and try to turn the backing plate.
 
I agree with 5.4 Shelby, it sounds like a spindle lock, so please don't push it "with the unit on".
 
In my experience with the 1st generation Griot's, the pad stops spinning with very little pressure applied.
 
In my article here,

Handle? Or No Handle? - Using DA Polishers Without the Handle


You can see a picture of the button in one of the many photos in the article,


PlasticCover012.jpg




I remember pushing down on the button and it didn't do anything, that is it doesn't engage any gears or locks or anything. I just went out to the studio, took the cap off one without a hand attached and tested it again and it doesn't do anything. At least that I can tell and I'm pretty mechanically inclined.

Could be some type of global design tool like Bob Eichelberg discusses in this thread,

Rotary Buffer Talk with Bob Eichelberg from Flex Tools


Mike Phillips said:
He also pointed out that Flex Polishers are designed and engineered specifically for automotive paint polishing instead of using a Global Manufacturing Process, which means the tools are designed for multiple applications, such as,
  • Steel grinding, sanding and cutting
  • Concrete grinding and cutting
  • Polishing paint
The Global Manufacturing Process is a one-size fits all approach so that one tool design can be marketed into multiple industries.


So it's possible that for another application with different mechanical components inside, the button does in fact do something but not for this design?


Just throwing that out there as food for thought...



:)
 
In my experience with the 1st generation Griot's, the pad stops spinning with very little pressure applied.


The first tool was a wood sander that couldn't rotate a pad under pressure.


In my life on the forums, once in a while someone will contact me via the forum, e-mail or PM and say something like,

I've been reading about removing swirls and I don't own a Porter Cable DA Polisher like I see in all the pictures but I do own a BLANK orbital wood sander, can I use this instead?​



I can't even count how many times someone has asked me a question like the above and then I let them know the answer is "no"


And the reason why is because the zillions of orbital DA wood sanders on the market, (and there's a lot of them), are made to spin a thin disc of sandpaper, not a thick foam pad that's going to be wet with product.

And then when if the person with the wood sander tries to use it for a paint polisher they find out the thick foam pad, (thick compared to a thin disk of sandpaper), won't rotate under pressure and then they break down and buy the wood sander that WILL rotate a pad under pressure, (the Porter Cable 7424, 7424XP 7336), and move forward.


The original polisher sold by Griot's was some type of wood sander and like in the story I share above, it along with the majority of all wood sanders might look like they can rotate a foam pad under pressure but they won't.


I share most of the above in this article...


The Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assembly - The Story Behind The Story...


Copyright ©PBMA - AutogeekOnline.net® All Rights Reserved

A reply from Porter Cable taken from page 9 of this thread,
Griots Garage ROP vs PC 7424XP


I recently fielded our collective question about what the industry term might be for the 'mechanism':

My question to Porter-Cable
What is the mechanism called that causes the polisher to stop rotation when excessive pressure is exerted upon it?

Some of us are having a discussion on an online auto detailing forum and I incorrectly referred to the mechanism as a 'clutch' (such as my drill has). I'd like to clarify this for the sake of accuracy.

Thanks."​


Porter-Cable's reply
Dear James, we believe the following information addresses your inquiry. The pad itself may stop rotating temporarily with excessive pressure, because it is mounted into a free-floating Spindle Bearing Assembly. However the overall mechanism is fixed & therefore never stops orbiting when the machine is running, unless something is damaged or worn.

So there you have it. I guess our 'mechanism' is called a "free-floating Spindle Bearing Assembly"


Thank you to MisterShark for taking the initiative to contact Porter Cable and get their definition, explanation and description of how the mechanism works that makes the Porter Cable DA Polishers both safe, effective and unique.

Note the Meguiar's versions and the Griot's Garage Versions of the Porter Cable Polisher use a similar design, that is these two other polishers also use a Free Floating Spindle Assembly.


In the below pictures, I'm pointing to what's referred to as the Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assembly of a Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher.

Porter Cable 7424XP with the Backing Plate Removed Exposing the
Counterweight and Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assembly
FreeRotatingSpingleAssembley003.jpg


Close-up
FreeRotatingSpingleAssembley004.jpg




From Hand to Machine
In the last 15 to 20 years a lot of people have made the switch from working by hand to working by machine because it's faster and more effective, especially on modern day clear coat paints.


Clear Coat Paints Are Scratch-Sensitive
Modern clear coat paints last longer than traditional single stage paints like the lacquers and enamels that were used to paint cars from the time the Model T was introduced till the early 1980's. In the early 1980's car manufactures began switching over to a new paint system called Basecoat/Clearcoat where the color coat or pigmented layer of paint is sprayed onto the car first and then a layer of clear paint is sprayed over the top of the color coat. Besides being a different approach, the resin used to make the paint changed also.


Longer Lasting
The results are paints that resist oxidation, (oxidation was a huge problem with single stage paints), and last much longer over the service life of the vehicle as compared to single stage paints.


Scratch-Sensitive = Easily Scratched = Eyesore
The problem is people confuse last longer with look good longer and these are two very different things. A modern clear coat finish can last a long time but that doesn't mean it will look good over this period of time. You see clear coat paints are scratch-sensitive, that means even though they tend to be harder than traditional single stage lacquers and enamels, they still scratch very easily and the swirls and scratches show up easily to our eyes because the scratches tend to be opaque or whitish in color and because of this, the colored or pigmented layer reveals and even showcases the swirls and scratches to your eyes making the finish on your car an eyesore in the sun.


The practical differences between single stage paints and a clear coat paints

Early 1965 Mustang with single stage paint and a modern Mustang with a basecoat/clear coat finish
1965.jpg
NewMustang.jpg





Frustration with clearcoat paints
Now let me tie this back to why machine polishing has become so much more popular since clear coat paints were introduced.

As more and more cars being manufactured made their way into the market, as car owners, or in other words, do-it-yourselfers, would try the traditional methods of removing defects out of the paint, that is with traditional rubbing and polishing compounds, they would find that most of these products may remove defects but leave their own defects in the paint at the same time.

Not only that, but because generally speaking, modern clear coats are harder than single stage paints, the energy, time and skill required to actually remove defects out of clear coat paints increased dramatically, and in fact increased to the point that many people attempting to remove defects and restore a shine like their car had when they bought it brand new, left most people feeling frustrated and their cars no better off than when they started and often times worse.


Enter the Porter Cable DA Sander
That's right, I said sander! The Porter Cable Dual Action Sander is the tool that became the Tipping Point that was the driving force behind the average person switching from working by hand to working by machine.


The Porter Cable Dual Action Sander with Wood Dust Collecting Attachment for Sanding Wood
portercableSANDER.jpg




Sanding the old finish off using a Porter Cable Dual Action Sander
2SandingDesk2.jpg




The exact same tool only outfitted with a foam polishing pad for machine polishing automotive clear coat paints
PorterCable7424XP.jpg




The story behind the story...
Here's why the Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher switched people from working by hand to working by machine
1) Safe - Uses a Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assembly for a drive mechanism

2) Faster - Faster and more effective at removing swirls compared to working by hand

Safe - Uses a Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assembly for a drive mechanism
This in my opinion, is the key feature that gave the average person the confidence to work on their car's paint by machine. The biggest fear people have about using a machine to polish their car's paint is the fear of burning though the paint or instilling swirls.

The Porter Cable Dual Action Sander overcomes these problems by using what we now refer to as a Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assembly. This is a unique drive mechanism that will rotate and oscillate a buffing pad at the same time enabling the user to remove swirls, water spots and scratches while at the same time if too much pressure is applied to the buffing pad or if it's held on edge or on top of a body line the pad will simply stop rotating thus prevent the pad from harming the paint.

Faster and more effective at removing swirls compared to working by hand
Besides being safe, it goes without saying that the speed and effectiveness were and still are very important reasons that people accustomed to working by hand switch over to working by machine. Typically, as a person uses the Internet to do research on how to remove swirls out of there car's clear coat finish they discover these things called discussion forums and after a little targeted reading they learn about the Porter Cable Dual Action polisher, commonly referred to as the DA Polisher.

To see how safe these tools really are, check out this video where I place extreme pressure to the back of my hand using a Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher

Pushing down as hard as I can




That's the story behind the story as to why Dual Action Polishers like the Porter Cable 7424XP, the Meguiar's G110v2 and the Griot's Garage ROP have become so popular.


Yesterday's Trend... Today's Norm...
Today, DA Polishers are the most popular tool among do-it-yourselfers crossing over from working by hand to working by machine. Many Professional Detailers also use the DA Polisher for their follow-up polishing steps after using a rotary buffer to do the major correction work. These tools are the easiest tools to learn how to use and so safe that even my son Rand is able to operate one safely on Nate Truman's 1966 Batmobile Recreation.

Photo courtesy of LacViet Photography
RandBuffingBatmobile1.jpg



So if you're still working by hand... check out the dual action polisher and see if you're ready to move up to machine polishing.



:)
 
Do you guys enjoy machine polishing? I find it extremely hard on your body if you do it for several hours without breaks. If you take five minute breaks between panels, it's much easier on you. Doesn't create as much strain.
 
Do you guys enjoy machine polishing? I find it extremely hard on your body if you do it for several hours without breaks. If you take five minute breaks between panels, it's much easier on you. Doesn't create as much strain.

As to not sound like a total jerk...I've been using 'power' for over 50 years. Learned early on, TAKE A BREAK! If nothing else, put the tool down and just stretch out a bit.

Bill
 
Do you guys enjoy machine polishing? I find it extremely hard on your body if you do it for several hours without breaks. If you take five minute breaks between panels, it's much easier on you. Doesn't create as much strain.


I enjoy the process because it's my passion but it is a lot of work and if you're ever going to machine buff all day, every day for a living then my advice is to join a gym close to your house and make it a point to work out. You don't have to have a goal of looking like a body builder, just exercise your muscles.

Remember, if you don't use it you lose it especially as you get older...


Machine buffing, especially with a rotary buffer, is very taxing to your muscles, all of them, arms, shoulders, back, stomach, legs, feet, hands, etc.

Always have plenty of cold water to stay hydrated especially if you're working in warm to hot water. Eat a big breakfast and eat throughout the day to maintain your energy.

I'm also a big fan of mid-top to high-top tennis shoes like Nike Air for good ankle support as well as cushion when you're working on hard surfaces all day. I only have one real foot and can tell a difference between a good tennis shoe and a cheap tennis shoe and I'm a huge fan of Nike Air tennis shoes for detailing work.

Zappos is your friend...


:)
 
Mike, those are all excellent points. Thank you for sharing those.
 
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