What would sway you to buy American?

Having been in just about every foreign and american mass produced automobile I can tell you that their aint that much of a difference any longer. Its funny to watch the surveys that once showed Toyota and Mercedes on top, now drop as they produce more units, wonder why, its called mass production. More units = more failures !!

I can tell you that the warranty offered by American manufacturers far outpaces most foreign also. Did you know that Nissan does NOT provide a rental car while unit is in shop unless an extended warranty is purchased. Same for Toyota, as they save this for their upscale Lexus and Infiniti badges. Talk to an average Mercedes owner on cost of upkeep, and you will see it costs 10x's what it costs to keep an American car up. And dont lose proof of warranty items like oil changes on time, or they will void the warranty.

The reason I buy American is simple, it keeps the money in our economy. The bulk is spent here, not in other countries while making their units here. That said, the reason that value was once a foreign cars biggest offering, is we allowed unions to control and fatten their wallets and their employees. Is it fair that currently 9000.00 of every new GM product is used to pay employee benefits and retirement ?? Its about 70% for foreign companies and they DONT negotiate with Unions.

Finally, service ....ha it truly depends on the dealer not the nameplate. My Cadillac dealer could not treat us better, and we have to beg for Chevy to take the Corvette in. Some get it , some dont. My local Lexus dealer now offers a shower and concierge service, but what price did you pay for a rebadged Toyota anyways ??

If you compare apples to apples, you will find enough value to move back to American. But a Lexus GS400 is not the equivalent of a Pontiac G6.
 
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Killer, you mention warrenty, how about Hyundais 5 years 60,000 miles bumper to bumper, and 10 year 100,000 miles powertrain.No american car comes close. American cars give you 3 , years 36,000 miles, and 5 years, 100,000 . It seem American car makers have no confindence in there cars.
 
I would never buy an American car, but I sure like my American DODGE TRUCK!!!
 
Larry A said:
Killer, you mention warrenty, how about Hyundais 5 years 60,000 miles bumper to bumper, and 10 year 100,000 miles powertrain.No american car comes close. American cars give you 3 , years 36,000 miles, and 5 years, 100,000 . It seem American car makers have no confindence in there cars.
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Most foreign cars offer 3/36 as there standard warranty. Yes, Hyundais exceed the normal, but no one is lining at their doors to buy there cars which are typically copies of 2-3 year best sellers from other divisions. Squint your eyes, and I bet you'll see the Honda or Toyota wannabe in each model.

GM offers 3/36 on most lines, buick and cadillac offering 4/60. All GM vehicles offers 100k powertrain warranties for the last several years. That exceeds Toyota , Nissan, and Honda. Add in the rental coverage and roadside assistance (extra on some foreign policies) and you have some pretty well rounded coverage. Could they be better, yes, but then the price of units go up also. Simple economics ... and dont think your not paying for it with those cheap compact cars. Do a little search on who's airbags fail to deploy the most in accident, it will boggle your mind !!

I wont argue that for years we made unsound decisions and sat back and allowed competition to flourish. But as an American, I do not oppose restricting imports now or charging a more comparable price to the units abroad. If you sell it here for less it use to be called "dumping", now its simply given back as a rebate or interest discount and clearly is designed to do the same thing. GM and Ford must also get away from these repricing tactics as have destroyed the used car market, and must underproduce some of the best units made. Allow Supply and Demand to reboost their records.
 
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Car's are car's now days. Not much real difference in them. Basically, pick a few cars that give you the options you want and read consumer reports. Test drive them and check their service departments. See which dealer has a better service record. Make your choice fromt there.

I will say this, I have owned 50/50 American v foreign and I currently own more American than any other. My Jetta and Audi (which we are looking to get rid of) have given me all kinds of problems where my 1983 F-150, my 1991 Escort and my 1967 Mustang have given me a life of small, easy to fix problems and run to perfection on a daily basis.
 
I guess it's all on one's experience. I have a '97 Olds Aurora, and it's honestly the best running and SAFEST cars I've been in. I was in a 50mph accident Christmas Eve; she rear ended me at 50mph, and my bumper didn't even fall off. A few gouges in the bumper, and a broken exhaust tip is all I went through; on the other end, her 4-door Saturn, went through 7k in front end engine damages. She was badly shaken up, and I didn't even encounter a headache.

I will keep my car, until a repair costs more than the car. IMO you can't put a price on safety. I plan on keeping it forever, and purchasing a 2002 Olds Aurora next. I love these cars so much.

My Mom own's a Honda Civic, and I couldn't imagine being in the same accident with her car. I have had great experience with American made cars, and I will continue to purchase GM cars from here on out, until I get so fed up with them, I turn the other way.

It's nothing personal, I guess, but why shop elsewhere if my needs can be meet here in the US?
 
WOW nick, thats crazy to hear. Glad you are ok. I guess your right about it being ones experience.

One thing I wish though is that the American public was more educated about the problems that actually occur with foreign models. I read industry news all the time and notice that recalls, warranty problems etc. are written there but never in mainstream media. Seems a little bit unfair when the media is always picking on The big 3. I can tell you that Toyota better get its hands around quality quickly before it runs away from them. They are so concerned about overtaking Gm that they are loosing focus on quality issues. Anyways, I hope this thread continues as I am hoping to get some insight from others and pass it along to some people here where I work.
 
I want the total package looks, fun to drive and reliability in a car or truck. I still get a grin on my face when I drive my 04 f250 with a powerstroke engine however my 98 contour is always needing work and is boring to drive. My wife went from a 04 mountaineer because of all the issues it had to a 06 Acura TSX and never looked back. The TSX has had zero issues and is fun to drive and when she gets it serviced always gets treated really well and a loaner vehicle even for oil changes. When she got the mercury worked on she and I got treated like we were stupid and never got a loaner even when her truck had less than 10k miles stop running due to a electrical issue (had a different about ever 6k miles). Mike...
 
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killrwheels@autogeek said:
Most foreign cars offer 3/36 as there standard warranty. Yes, Hyundais exceed the normal, but no one is lining at their doors to buy there cars which are typically copies of 2-3 year best sellers from other divisions. Squint your eyes, and I bet you'll see the Honda or Toyota wannabe in each model.

GM offers 3/36 on most lines, buick and cadillac offering 4/60. All GM vehicles offers 100k powertrain warranties for the last several years. That exceeds Toyota , Nissan, and Honda. Add in the rental coverage and roadside assistance (extra on some foreign policies) and you have some pretty well rounded coverage. Could they be better, yes, but then the price of units go up also. Simple economics ... and dont think your not paying for it with those cheap compact cars. Do a little search on who's airbags fail to deploy the most in accident, it will boggle your mind !!

I wont argue that for years we made unsound decisions and sat back and allowed competition to flourish. But as an American, I do not oppose restricting imports now or charging a more comparable price to the units abroad. If you sell it here for less it use to be called "dumping", now its simply given back as a rebate or interest discount and clearly is designed to do the same thing. GM and Ford must also get away from these repricing tactics as have destroyed the used car market, and must underproduce some of the best units made. Allow Supply and Demand to reboost their records.
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I agree totally. Let See 23.6 and 13.6 per hundred vehicles Sold! 23.6 for Domestics 13.6 for Foreign! So for every 100 foreign cars sold 10 Americans an Canadians loose jobs? Hey Lexus on a Camery platform no jobs. How much more do we shrink a respectable wage earning market. Doesyou business depend on it? I do not deal with any contractor that has a foreign vehicle period. Hey illegles have decimated skilled trades(brick layers, carpenters etc how much more do you want to shrinl the market? Soon their will be only well paying (few) working poor wages and poor. Things cost more(material) but wages keep going down. GM 100,000 warenty! Rust on new vehicle trucks double galvenized find it hard to belive. Keep buying foreign an see even feewer good jobs in North America, shrink everyones business.
 
koibybrian said:
I agree totally. Let See 23.6 and 13.6 per hundred vehicles Sold! 23.6 for Domestics 13.6 for Foreign! So for every 100 foreign cars sold 10 Americans an Canadians loose jobs? Hey Lexus on a Camery platform no jobs. How much more do we shrink a respectable wage earning market. Doesyou business depend on it? I do not deal with any contractor that has a foreign vehicle period. Hey illegles have decimated skilled trades(brick layers, carpenters etc how much more do you want to shrinl the market? Soon their will be only well paying (few) working poor wages and poor. Things cost more(material) but wages keep going down. GM 100,000 warenty! Rust on new vehicle trucks double galvenized find it hard to belive. Keep buying foreign an see even feewer good jobs in North America, shrink everyones business.
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Whoooaaa there some engrish, musta been taught by me mentor:D

My issue like I said before is that our cars are just borring, besides Viper/Vette/CTS-V there isn't any other American car that interest me. Their missing the feel and fun that competitors have. The only advantage we have is price usually, and in my case I could care less and willing to pony up extra for something else. I know people say support the economy but if its something I don't want then I'm not going to buy it, what if we had homebuilders here and homebuilders based overseas building homes here and our companies were crap yet the overseas companies were building excellent homes...would you still buy American (just an example, not true)?

Besides with all the trucks we've owned and family has with their construction and developing business es, I feel like I've supported the economy lol:D. Personally I think Caddy has done the best turn around all together. CTS-V is a blast, and the SRX is based off the CTS platform and usually ranked at the top even ahead of the X5 and others.
 
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Dodge, GM, Ford are paying their production people something like 45-65 bucks an hour. The BMW plant about 40 miles from my house is paying their production people 20-30 bucks an hour. We know what is hurting the big three. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that but look at the difference. BMW's is a heck alot higher price car then the big three.
 
My father just lost his job at Ford and it wasn't all due to people running out and buying foreign cars. A big part of it is the wasteful upper management and CEO's of Ford that (one Ford higher up was using Ford's private jet to fly him and his family from Dearborn, MI to his House in Florida every weekend), make piss poor decisions and do not seem to listen to there employees or customers. My father worked in research and development and all the time they would tell the head engineers of product problems and nothing would be done. They would just push it through the development stage and straight in to production. Next thing you know the problems that they were warned of would come back to bite them in the a** and they would be forced to do a recall. Tactics like this IMO are not a good way to run a company and my only hope is Ford and GM will survive this and learn form there mistakes.

However since my father lost his Job and with the problems my wife had with her American car I am not sorry in the least bit for buying an Acura. I feel that until major things change and the American car company's straighten up their acts I will buy what has good ratings, is reliable, has the most bang for the buck and is fun / comfortable to drive. I am not saying all American cars are bad or don't buy American but buy what is a good deal and will suit your needs. I feel all cars now are so expensive for what they are that it would be a waste to buy something and then have all kinds of headaches with it and not enjoy it. Also, do you guys still consider Chrysler American?

Because they are outsourcing all kinds of jobs out of the U.S. and are majority owned by Daimler-Benz. Mike…
 
sparkie said:
Dodge, GM, Ford are paying their production people something like 45-65 bucks an hour. The BMW plant about 40 miles from my house is paying their production people 20-30 bucks an hour. We know what is hurting the big three. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that but look at the difference. BMW's is a heck alot higher price car then the big three.
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That has to do with the labor unions. Toyota pays even less than BMW does. That's why they're so selective as to where they locate their facilities when they're trying to produce more vehicles. Toyota uses their 'kaizen' philosophy, which would be a whole other discussion.
 
koibybrian said:
I do not deal with any contractor that has a foreign vehicle period.
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So where do you fall in the grand scheme of things if you can't even put together a coherant sentence?
 
killrwheels@autogeek said:
The reason I buy American is simple, it keeps the money in our economy. The bulk is spent here, not in other countries while making their units here. That said, the reason that value was once a foreign cars biggest offering, is we allowed unions to control and fatten their wallets and their employees. Is it fair that currently 9000.00 of every new GM product is used to pay employee benefits and retirement ?? Its about 70% for foreign companies and they DONT negotiate with Unions.
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So you would buy American even if the quality is less than par, it has no resale and is behind the times, just to be able to say "I bought an American car"? When realistically most cars and trucks that are "American" are assembled or have parts made in Canada and Mexico. So that kind of defeats your whole purpose and know your money is going to non American workers. Mike...
 
Americans don't run out and buy foreign cars because they don't want to buy American cars. The problems with American cars has been in the engineering and styling and not the workers in the factories who build them. The workers in the factories usually end up paying the price for the poor management deceisions at the top. People at the top get rich and the factory worker's get laid off. I hope they get their act together. Americans are free to buy whatever car the want. I don't think you should reward an American company by buying their product if you don't like the product. I'm from the Detroil area and I do feel bad for the worker's in the factories. There are a lot foreign cars that I would consider junk too.
 
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killrwheels@autogeek said:
Having been in just about every foreign and american mass produced automobile I can tell you that their aint that much of a difference any longer. Its funny to watch the surveys that once showed Toyota and Mercedes on top, now drop as they produce more units, wonder why, its called mass production. More units = more failures !!
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More units = more failures doesn't matter...that's expected. It has much more to do with a percentage than it does raw numbers. And if you're trying to tell me the "quality" plastic you get inside of a General Motors car is the same as what you'll find in a Mercedes then I'd like to know what you're smoking.

killrwheels@autogeek said:
I can tell you that the warranty offered by American manufacturers far outpaces most foreign also. Did you know that Nissan does NOT provide a rental car while unit is in shop unless an extended warranty is purchased. Same for Toyota, as they save this for their upscale Lexus and Infiniti badges. Talk to an average Mercedes owner on cost of upkeep, and you will see it costs 10x's what it costs to keep an American car up. And dont lose proof of warranty items like oil changes on time, or they will void the warranty.
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I wouldn't consider them too different. A rental car is the least of my concerns when buying a new car. And the fact that American automakers provide one (which I'm assuming they do based on your post..) only shows that they actually expect to have repairs that last longer than a couple of hours. Why else would you need a rental car available? And why are you still comparing Mercedes to American manufacturers? If you're buying a Mercedes Benz and expect to pay Ford/GM/Chrysler upkeep prices you're an idiot. Quality parts cost more money than the junk often times used in most cars. And IMO if you don't properly upkeep your car with oil changes and regular maintenance, why should a manufacturer honor their warranty? They give you the car and their warranty based on the idea that you're going to take care of it. I'm not saying if you're a mile over for your oil change that you should be screwed...but most Americans are so lazy they won't get something simple like a tire rotation done or pay for a $15 air filter when it's needed. How many people even know things like shocks/struts are a 50,000 mile part? And of those who do, how many of you replaced them at or around 50k miles? My point is if you aren't going to take care of your car why should anyone else?

killrwheels@autogeek said:
The reason I buy American is simple, it keeps the money in our economy. The bulk is spent here, not in other countries while making their units here. That said, the reason that value was once a foreign cars biggest offering, is we allowed unions to control and fatten their wallets and their employees. Is it fair that currently 9000.00 of every new GM product is used to pay employee benefits and retirement ?? Its about 70% for foreign companies and they DONT negotiate with Unions.
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Go read the sticker on the side of most any car at most dealerships. Toyota comes from U.S. and Canada mainly. Scion is the same obviously. It's close to the same all across the board. Your idea of keeping money in our economy is flawed. Sure if you buy a Honda some tiny little asian guy in Japan gets a small cut of that...but the dealership you're buying from is in the U.S. More money of that goes to the dealership and the community it's in and the salesman and manager etc. etc.

I do strongly agree about the union thing. They've screwed themselves over and now it's hitting everywhere. Even suppleir companies are filing for bankruptcy because everyone is cost cutting.

killrwheels@autogeek said:
Finally, service ....ha it truly depends on the dealer not the nameplate. My Cadillac dealer could not treat us better, and we have to beg for Chevy to take the Corvette in. Some get it , some dont. My local Lexus dealer now offers a shower and concierge service, but what price did you pay for a rebadged Toyota anyways ??
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Agreed again for the most part. Service varies by dealership. My local Ford dealership was terrible. The Dodge dealership has never given me a problem. Porsche is the same, no problems there.


killrwheels@autogeek said:
If you compare apples to apples, you will find enough value to move back to American. But a Lexus GS400 is not the equivalent of a Pontiac G6.
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Your definition of value will be different from everyone elses, just like mine will be and just like the next guy/girl. I place more value on performance over comfort/convenience stuff. I don't really care about gas mileage and I don't care about a warranty either. I like the Evo and the STI just as much as I like the Cobra and the Corvette (maybe the 03/04 Cobra a little more..)
 
Gary Sword said:
Americans don't run out and buy foreign cars because they don't want to buy American cars. The problems with American cars has been in the engineering and styling and not the workers in the factories who build them. The workers in the factories usually end up paying the price for the poor management deceisions at the top. People at the top get rich and the factory worker's get laid off. I hope they get their act together. Americans are free to buy whatever car the want. I don't think you should reward an American company by buying their product if you don't like the product. I'm from the Detroil area and I do feel bad for the worker's in the factories. There are a lot foreign cars too that I would consider junk.
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Indeed. Kia as a whole makes me want to throw up. Hyundai isn't far behind. It really sucks for the workers, but it's their managers faults. #### rolls down hill.
 
Well it may not be fair fo me to compare. I have owned only American my whole life. My first '71 big block El Camino was a screamer. Then I discovered Mopar. "70 340 Cuda, (I really wish I still had it) "78 Ramcharger, 88 3/4 ton hauling truck. my '97 4x4 pickup, and my current 300m. I loved them all. very few problems, (except for a lot of rust on the Ramcharger) and transmission on the 4x4 (It was abused before I bought it) Not to mention my Baby, my "23 T altered, 440 big block in front of a powerglide, and a Ford 9" rear. There is no feeling in the world like going from 0 to 100 in 5 seconds. (Unless you can do it faster) and It's only done with American horsepower. I love it...
 
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