When Did This Get So Complicated?

I agree. I remember when I started out I was overwhelmed by the sheer amount of products available. Being a nerd I started doing research to find the best of each category. In the end while some products are better than others, most are excellent and the difference is minimal. Also there are some products you will pretty much never use and others you will use non-stop. So focussing on key products will make a newbie's life much easier. Took me thousands of dollars of purchased to find that out, hopefully others will realise that sooner ;)
 
It IS confusing, even for a weekend warrior such as myself. I can't imagine how it must be for you pros. I look at the products sold here: so many of the same things sold under different brands. If I had it to do over (buying what I need), I'd stick with one brand, and probably only have 5-7 products, not including towels, brushes, buckets...
The people here have been more than helpful in helping me choose what I need for each process. Thanks to all :dblthumb2:
 
Setec Astronomy said:
I have to say I started on forums at MOL, and it was pretty simple, there wasn't that much to choose from,
Click to expand...



Desertnate said:
I personally don't mind the huge variety. In fact, I like all the options.
Click to expand...



I just want to chime in with my observation using the above two comments as examples and no harm intended.... just comments from someone that's been posting to the Internet since 1994, which in Internet years.... that's a long time. :D


The first post I can document to the Internet



I brought up the MOL forum 10 years later on January 24th, 2004. That's 10 years later...

First post on MOL



Here's my comments...


If there wasn't a lot of choices and options - people would complaint there's not a lot of choices or options.


If there's a LOT of choices and options people will complain there's too many choices and options.


Just kind of that old human nature kind of thing....


:laughing:
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
Here's my comments...


If there wasn't a lot of choices and options - people would complaint there's not a lot of choices or options.


If there's a LOT of choices and options people will complain there's too many choices and options.


Just kind of that old human nature kind of thing....
Click to expand...

I perhaps made my point poorly, and maybe I am picking and choosing, but it seems to me I see a lot of newb threads where people are lost in the sea of product choices, partly because they perhaps don't understand some basics about the process, which might help them in product selection.

I'm sure you go through this stuff in your classes, but if you come to the forum home page and click on the "Detailing How-To's" you come to the flow chart, which is really where everybody should start. But there is nothing in there about decon chemicals, and the polish nomenclature is somewhat vague (as you have pointed out many times, there is no standardization) and difficult to correlate to specific products. No mention of coatings, either.

I wasn't complaining it's too complicated for me, I think it can be complicated for newbs to put the pieces together, and a few of them have chimed in earlier in the thread.

Just as a for-instance, I think you've created a new product category with the McKee's 37 Jeweling Wax. If a newb looked at the flow chart, and decided he needs a swirl remover and a finishing polish (leaving aside that the flow chart implies a 3-step process which is largely obsolete with today's abrasives which allow 2 steps), where would he slot the Jeweling Wax? I think probably very few products in the polish section of the store are described as "swirl removers" or "finishing polishes".

I mean if I go to this page: Menzerna, Menzerna Polishing Compounds Products, Menzerna FMJ, menzerna polishes, menzerna car polish, menzerna nano polish, menzerna final polish, and scan all the Menz descriptions for "swirl remover" or "finishing polish" I wouldn't see that exact nomenclature anywhere, and I might try a different line.

Again, I was just making some late-night observations, not criticisms. I think someone mentioned earlier in the thread it might be good to have a list of products by category; I think that's probably not feasible because it would be a full-time job for someone to keep updated.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
I think that's probably not feasible because it would be a full-time job for someone to keep updated.
Click to expand...

Not only that, but there are products out there that don't fall neatly into a catagory.

Prima Amigo is a good example. Is it a glaze? Yep, it fills. Is it a mild polish/paint cleaner? Yep, it has mild abrasives. Where would you put it?

I could see the person taking on that tasking never being finished and probably needing therapy after a few months!
 
Setec Astronomy said:
I wasn't complaining it's too complicated for me, I think it can be complicated for newbs to put the pieces together, and a few of them have chimed in earlier in the thread.
Click to expand...

I for one, completely understood what you were saying and where you're coming from, my post was just to highlight that the car detailing supplies world is one of those things where it is what it is...

I know it's confusing, heck I've spent a lifetime trying to remove the confusion. :D

But that's just how it is. To me it's better to have lots of options and any amount of confusion that comes with it than to have only a few options and the boredom that it would bring. P

lus at least in America capitalism is alive and well and again in my opinion this is a good thing and why so many people in the WORLD want to come here and become an entrepreneur.

Of course... this will lead to more choices and options. :D


Setec Astronomy said:
Again, I was just making some late-night observations, not criticisms.
Click to expand...

That's how I read it. Same here... I'm just sharing some observations.


Setec Astronomy said:
I think someone mentioned earlier in the thread it might be good to have a list of products by category; I think that's probably not feasible because it would be a full-time job for someone to keep updated.
Click to expand...

I know I don't want the responsibility.


:dblthumb2:
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
I know it's confusing, heck I've spent a lifetime trying to remove the confusion. :D
Click to expand...

Yeah, probably no one has done more in that regard, between your classes, books, etc., and as you stated earlier, your pioneering forum/internet activity.

There are tons of great products today, hard to go wrong with any of them, I just feel bad sometimes for the people who seem lost. The great thing is they are here on this forum which has such a great membership to help.
 
dlc95 said:
One thing that is undeniable, is how marketing, advertising, promotions, etc are very effective in engaging the customer in a transaction.

This is why I reduced the number of lines I wanted to try, and have actually sold off most of my superfluous products.

I keep in mind that on one hand there are technological advancements in tools, compounds, and pads, and the other is the fact that these companies are in business also to make money. I weigh this against my "cobbled together" systems to see if the increased price outperforms my standard. Most times it' my selection of Meguiars Ultimate line, select Buff and Shine pads, and the PC that end up making the money. There are great companies out there, that I have absolutely no interest in trying.
Click to expand...


I'm with you on that one. I tried the Ultimate line first and it worked fine. Then I decided to try a more expensive line. It did the exact same thing so when it's gone, I'm sticking with UC and UP. It works!

I found 5 or 6 products from 2 or 3 brands and they work. Not interested in trying every other product.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Yeah, probably no one has done more in that regard, between your classes, books, etc., and as you stated earlier, your pioneering forum/internet activity.

There are tons of great products today, hard to go wrong with any of them, I just feel bad sometimes for the people who seem lost. The great thing is they are here on this forum which has such a great membership to help.
Click to expand...

I remember when you didn't have these products and most clean-up or detailing materials were from the bodyshop lines as in compounds like TigerKut and Kitten Wax or Liquid Ebony (great for removing swirl marks).
But it was very limited. And you can forget UV dressings as everything was a solvent base chemical and don't get me wrong but I liked those as they did a great job and were kinda expensive but again there wasn't a site like this to show or explain detailing or the process of it.
Also I remember when we got foam pads and well? I still use wool but for finishing Foam is best but there is such a selection and machines? I still use a 2800 Milwaukee buffer and an orbital so these new DA Polisher's are nice and may take a lot of the guess work out of doing the detail work but like again there are so many choices today.
I guess we must choose wisely in what the job entails using the right product for it. . . . . Just my take on it all . . . . .
 
Riff said:
I'm with you on that one. I tried the Ultimate line first and it worked fine. Then I decided to try a more expensive line. It did the exact same thing so when it's gone, I'm sticking with UC and UP. It works!

I found 5 or 6 products from 2 or 3 brands and they work. Not interested in trying every other product.
Click to expand...

Also, what works for one person, may not work as well with another.

I always liked the idea of learning a product inside and out, and learn how it behaves in different situations.
 
As a newbie, I have to say that this is one of the best forums I've ever seen for any hobby/professional pursuit. There are many pros and very experienced hobbyists that share a lot of very good info. I appreciate that, and the reviews of different products. I stumbled on this site because I promised my rotator cuff I would never use turtle wax again and wanted an easier/better way to take care of my vehicles' apperance. I went with griots because friends use it. I'm happy, but then I start looking at DA's. Holy crap. I'm glad my mystery box came with some of the new McKee's 360 AIO because I couldn't decide what I was going to try as a starting point.

Two things I'd love to see here: A glossary. I am an instructor in a very acronym-intensive industry (aviation) and the usage of them is mind boggling at times. I've figured out many but the struggle is real. I do realize that I can't remove wax with a hoppy beer, but what does IPA stand for? Still haven't figured that one out.

Also, a comprehensive list of the product numbers for Meguiar's would be helpful. They make a ton of stuff and many of the descriptions in the AG store don't have those numbers anywhere to be found.
 
Boy, we used to have an acronym list somewhere, but since you can't go back and edit your threads, you can't really update it.

IPA is Isopropyl Alcohol
 
Follow the money...

Although products have advanced, its the MARKETING that has really advanced.
 
I welcome choices to some degree. Unfortunately, when there's no patents involved, everyone has to jump in with business opportunities/marketing and it floods the market. So when new people come into detailing it's a gauntlet and in many cases they end up throwing away money on products that don't work.

Just because you make great polishes, doesn't mean you make great degreasers, great engine bay vacuums, awesome catalytic converter polishers, the best license plate coatings, ad nauseam. A lot of it is a marketing gimmick. Company A comes out with thinner pads. Time saver! Then Company B chimes in with thicker, dodecagon-shaped pads! Revolutionary! Simply because they think there's money left on the table. If there are 1,000 ways to skin a cat (or in this case polish a car), there's 999 opportunities for everyone to profit.
 
1fastTbird said:
Follow the money...

Although products have advanced, its the MARKETING that has really advanced.
Click to expand...

It sure does feel that way sometimes!

DIY car appearance care industry has really taken off in the last ten or more years.

This would leave a ripe market for vendors, manufacturers, resellers, relabelers, etc.

I don't personally like a ton of choices these days. I'll change my technique, or approach before I change product these days. That dollar is a lot harder to put back in your pocket once it's been spent.
 
Yea. Growing up you hit the driveway....

Grabbed your bucket
No 7 powered soap
Westlys blech white
Old terry cloths towels to dry
Turtle wax or simonize or nu finish

DONE
 
Complaining... Mike you just descirbed what Internet it, a complaining Platform ;)


Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
I just want to chime in with my observation using the above two comments as examples and no harm intended.... just comments from someone that's been posting to the Internet since 1994, which in Internet years.... that's a long time. :D


The first post I can document to the Internet



I brought up the MOL forum 10 years later on January 24th, 2004. That's 10 years later...

First post on MOL



Here's my comments...


If there wasn't a lot of choices and options - people would complaint there's not a lot of choices or options.


If there's a LOT of choices and options people will complain there's too many choices and options.


Just kind of that old human nature kind of thing....


:laughing:
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top