Rsurfer
Well-known member
- Jan 26, 2007
- 14,159
- 26
Jeweling and correction work are two different animals. Try correcting with a compound @ 600 rpm versus 1200-1500 and see the difference.
Why is everyone afraid of rotary polishers? And what's this about not finishing properly?
- Thread starter TheDetailGeeks
- Start date
Jeweling and correction work are two different animals. Try correcting with a compound @ 600 rpm versus 1200-1500 and see the difference.
Paul A.
New member
- Dec 21, 2007
- 5,276
- 1
Mike, let me personally apologize for misrepresenting what i thought i remembered.
Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
- 51,004
- 7
No apology needed. In fact because of your post I know that I need to work even harder at writing very clearly so there's simply no confusion.
:dblthumb2:
Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
- 51,004
- 7
Just to add...
The rotary buffer is a great tool and there's always times when it's the right tool and the perfect tool for the job.
I've been teaching classes at Mobil Tech Expo for 5 years now on how to use the rotary buffer.
Here's the thread for this year's Mobil Tech Expo
2015 Mobile Tech Expo Class Schedule
Class 2 - How to reduce correction time and make more money
The rotary buffer is without a doubt, the most powerful tool there is for machine polishing cars, trucks, boats and motorhomes. It’s the tool of choice for removing wet sanding scratches after wet sanding an entire car or simply an isolated repair.
In FACT, the rotary buffer is the fastest way to remove
ANY type of paint defect. Period.
The compounding or correction step takes the longest amount of time for any detail project. Learn the secrets of how to
reduce your time doing the correction step by using a rotary buffer. Then learn secret to always leaving a 100% swirl free finish guaranteed.
Presented by Mike Phillips of Autogeek.net
Thursday January 15th
10:30am to 11:30am
Curacao Rooms 3 & 4
Also taught a class on using the new Flex PE8 Rotary Polisher
Class 3 - How to do fast spot repairs after PDR
The brand new Flex PE8 is a lightweight, compact Spot Repair Polisher. It’s designed to be used with 4” pads or smaller and this makes it perfect for doing fast spot repairs after
removing dents. Mike Phillips will show you how to quickly clean-up the paint surrounding the damaged area fast with a single tool that won’t tire you out.
The compact size and lightweight features enable you to do meticulousness buffing with surgical precision.
Presented by Mike Phillips of Autogeek.net
Thursday January 15th
12:30pm to 1:30pm
Curacao Rooms 3 & 4
Last year's schedule...
Mobile Tech Expo 2014 - Class Schedule
Class 2 - How to use the Rotary Buffer
11:00-11:45am
Room: Curacao 3 & 4
The rotary buffer is without a doubt, the most powerful tool there is for machine polishing cars, trucks, boats and Motorhomes. It’s the tool of choice for removing sanding marks after wetsanding an entire car or an isolated repair.
The rotary buffer is also to blame for the majority of all the holograms you see all too often in freshly detailed cars by Dealerships, Body Shops and “yes” even supposedly Professional Detailers.
In this class you will learn tips and techniques gained over a lifetime from using the rotary buffer including compounding with wool pads, polishing with foam pads and jewelling paint for a hologram-free finish.
Using a rotary buffer to remove sanding marks on a 1965 Mustang Fastback
Removing deeper swirls and scratches out of a 2000 Lotus Esprit
Removing fiber holograms using a 3.5" foam pad with 3 extensions on a Flex PE14
I teach a dedicated class session at all my detailing boot camp classes on how to use the rotary buffer. At the last class just a few weeks ago I used a completely wiped out 1971 Chevy C10 Truck to show the class how to use the rotary buffer.
Here's before...
1971 Chevy Pickup Truck
This car is completely contaminated and the exterior feels like #40 Grit Sandpaper!
It's also been buffed out with a wool pad on a rotary buffer so all the paint is filled with swirls and holograms. Our job will be to restore a show car finish.
Paint looks pretty good in this shot....
Light em up!
Here's what it looks like with the Swirl Finder Light lighting up the paint...
This swirl pattern is called holograms, it's caused by the wrong use of a rotary buffer.
Same thing over the rest of the truck, here's the passenger side truck bed.
Here's after....
And this is the original Makita rotary buffer I purchased in 1987 when Makita introduced this model with the variable speed dial to control the RPM. (that was a new thing back then).
The wear marks are from decades of buffing out cars with it.
I keep it in the Autogeek Show Car Garage and show it to the students in all my classes and tell them that if they're going to take a class from someone that's going to teach them how to use a rotary buffer it's a good idea for the instructor to actually know how to use one and even better if they can prove it.
The rotary buffer, because of its direct driver single direction rotating action is prone to leaving it's own scratch patter in scratch sensitive clearcoat paints (and any paint or gel-coat or plastic for that matter).
Here's the good news....
Today, in the year 2015 there are more pads and products and by the word products I mean compounds and polishes, and specifically Ultra Fine Cut Polishes, that enable a person to have the best chance at leaving behind a hologram-free finish even on black paint.
At least visually a hologram free finish.
The fact of the matter is... in my opinion, anytime you physically touch paint the the potential exists to leave behind a mark of some type. That could be by using a rotary buffer or a dual action polisher or working by hand.
You would need a powerful microscope to see the marks but again, in my opinion they are there it's just they are invisible to the human eye without some type of viewing aid.
So the goal is to reduce the potential of leaving any type of mark or marring or swirling or scratching in everything you do and you do this by using the highest quality products you can obtain followed by using the best technique you can personally muster.
Marco D'Inca showed me a cool little toy when I was at the Rupes Corporate office in Milan, Italy....
From this thread,
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...-i-prime-rupes-foam-pad-rupes-polisher-2.html
This little hummer would show scratches onto a computer screen at the microscopic level. Of course, chemically stripping the paint first would probably help too...
Big picture is this...
The rotary buffer has it's place and if you want to finish out using only a rotary buffer I say go for it.
If you want to start with a rotary buffer and finish out using any type of dual action polisher you will, key word, ensure a hologram-free finish.
That's what Frank and I did with this Ferrari. The finish was HAMMERED and the paint seem to buff kind of hard. I tried to correct it using the Flex 3401 with an orange Hybrid pad and Wolfgang Uber Compound and while that was working it wasn't working fast enough for me.
So I pulled out the Flex PE14 and using a WOOL CUTTING PAD and the Uber Compound I just went in and got the job done the fastest way possible. Then Frank followed me with the Flex 3401 a dual action polisher to refine the results and to ENSURE a hologram-free finish. Then we machine waxed the paint using a Porter Cable 7424XP and Wolfgang Fuzion.
Mark's Fast Ferrari with Wolfgang Fuzion
My buddy Mark stopped by to say hi while out and about driving his 1987 Ferrari 328 GTS sporting a coat of Wolfgang Fuzion. Forum member Frank and I detailed this Ferrari back in May of this year and I'm happy to say that Mark's done a great job of maintain both the inside and the outside of his very cool Ferrari.
Good discussion guys.... keep it going...
The rotary buffer is a great tool and there's always times when it's the right tool and the perfect tool for the job.
I've been teaching classes at Mobil Tech Expo for 5 years now on how to use the rotary buffer.
Here's the thread for this year's Mobil Tech Expo
2015 Mobile Tech Expo Class Schedule
Class 2 - How to reduce correction time and make more money
The rotary buffer is without a doubt, the most powerful tool there is for machine polishing cars, trucks, boats and motorhomes. It’s the tool of choice for removing wet sanding scratches after wet sanding an entire car or simply an isolated repair.
In FACT, the rotary buffer is the fastest way to remove
ANY type of paint defect. Period.
The compounding or correction step takes the longest amount of time for any detail project. Learn the secrets of how to
reduce your time doing the correction step by using a rotary buffer. Then learn secret to always leaving a 100% swirl free finish guaranteed.
Presented by Mike Phillips of Autogeek.net
Thursday January 15th
10:30am to 11:30am
Curacao Rooms 3 & 4
Also taught a class on using the new Flex PE8 Rotary Polisher
Class 3 - How to do fast spot repairs after PDR
The brand new Flex PE8 is a lightweight, compact Spot Repair Polisher. It’s designed to be used with 4” pads or smaller and this makes it perfect for doing fast spot repairs after
removing dents. Mike Phillips will show you how to quickly clean-up the paint surrounding the damaged area fast with a single tool that won’t tire you out.
The compact size and lightweight features enable you to do meticulousness buffing with surgical precision.
Presented by Mike Phillips of Autogeek.net
Thursday January 15th
12:30pm to 1:30pm
Curacao Rooms 3 & 4
Last year's schedule...
Mobile Tech Expo 2014 - Class Schedule
Class 2 - How to use the Rotary Buffer
11:00-11:45am
Room: Curacao 3 & 4
The rotary buffer is without a doubt, the most powerful tool there is for machine polishing cars, trucks, boats and Motorhomes. It’s the tool of choice for removing sanding marks after wetsanding an entire car or an isolated repair.
The rotary buffer is also to blame for the majority of all the holograms you see all too often in freshly detailed cars by Dealerships, Body Shops and “yes” even supposedly Professional Detailers.
In this class you will learn tips and techniques gained over a lifetime from using the rotary buffer including compounding with wool pads, polishing with foam pads and jewelling paint for a hologram-free finish.
Using a rotary buffer to remove sanding marks on a 1965 Mustang Fastback
Removing deeper swirls and scratches out of a 2000 Lotus Esprit
Removing fiber holograms using a 3.5" foam pad with 3 extensions on a Flex PE14
I teach a dedicated class session at all my detailing boot camp classes on how to use the rotary buffer. At the last class just a few weeks ago I used a completely wiped out 1971 Chevy C10 Truck to show the class how to use the rotary buffer.
Here's before...
1971 Chevy Pickup Truck
This car is completely contaminated and the exterior feels like #40 Grit Sandpaper!
It's also been buffed out with a wool pad on a rotary buffer so all the paint is filled with swirls and holograms. Our job will be to restore a show car finish.
Paint looks pretty good in this shot....
Light em up!
Here's what it looks like with the Swirl Finder Light lighting up the paint...
This swirl pattern is called holograms, it's caused by the wrong use of a rotary buffer.
Same thing over the rest of the truck, here's the passenger side truck bed.
Here's after....
And this is the original Makita rotary buffer I purchased in 1987 when Makita introduced this model with the variable speed dial to control the RPM. (that was a new thing back then).
The wear marks are from decades of buffing out cars with it.
I keep it in the Autogeek Show Car Garage and show it to the students in all my classes and tell them that if they're going to take a class from someone that's going to teach them how to use a rotary buffer it's a good idea for the instructor to actually know how to use one and even better if they can prove it.
The rotary buffer, because of its direct driver single direction rotating action is prone to leaving it's own scratch patter in scratch sensitive clearcoat paints (and any paint or gel-coat or plastic for that matter).
Here's the good news....
Today, in the year 2015 there are more pads and products and by the word products I mean compounds and polishes, and specifically Ultra Fine Cut Polishes, that enable a person to have the best chance at leaving behind a hologram-free finish even on black paint.
At least visually a hologram free finish.
The fact of the matter is... in my opinion, anytime you physically touch paint the the potential exists to leave behind a mark of some type. That could be by using a rotary buffer or a dual action polisher or working by hand.
You would need a powerful microscope to see the marks but again, in my opinion they are there it's just they are invisible to the human eye without some type of viewing aid.
So the goal is to reduce the potential of leaving any type of mark or marring or swirling or scratching in everything you do and you do this by using the highest quality products you can obtain followed by using the best technique you can personally muster.
Marco D'Inca showed me a cool little toy when I was at the Rupes Corporate office in Milan, Italy....
From this thread,
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...-i-prime-rupes-foam-pad-rupes-polisher-2.html
Mike Phillips said:For those that followed the pictures I posted to my Facebook page while I was in Italy you may have already seen these pictures, if not this would be your first time.
These pictures are the clean pictures I took at the training session at the Rupes National Sales Meeting at the Rupes corporate office in Milan, Italy.
By the word clean there's nothing in these shots that show anything....
Here's some of the International Sales Staff watching as Marco D'Inca uses a tool called the Bodelin ProScope HR2 to view surface defects at the microscopic level and share them on the monitor.
Bodelin ProScope HR2
Marco has all the cool toys...
Marco is using it to view and area he just polished as part of the training session...
I don't have the before picture, I was too slow on the camera, but there were a lot of defects in the paint before this shot...
During the break I tried out the ProScope by holding it next to the yellow and blue foam pads.
This little hummer would show scratches onto a computer screen at the microscopic level. Of course, chemically stripping the paint first would probably help too...
Big picture is this...
The rotary buffer has it's place and if you want to finish out using only a rotary buffer I say go for it.
If you want to start with a rotary buffer and finish out using any type of dual action polisher you will, key word, ensure a hologram-free finish.
That's what Frank and I did with this Ferrari. The finish was HAMMERED and the paint seem to buff kind of hard. I tried to correct it using the Flex 3401 with an orange Hybrid pad and Wolfgang Uber Compound and while that was working it wasn't working fast enough for me.
So I pulled out the Flex PE14 and using a WOOL CUTTING PAD and the Uber Compound I just went in and got the job done the fastest way possible. Then Frank followed me with the Flex 3401 a dual action polisher to refine the results and to ENSURE a hologram-free finish. Then we machine waxed the paint using a Porter Cable 7424XP and Wolfgang Fuzion.
Mark's Fast Ferrari with Wolfgang Fuzion
My buddy Mark stopped by to say hi while out and about driving his 1987 Ferrari 328 GTS sporting a coat of Wolfgang Fuzion. Forum member Frank and I detailed this Ferrari back in May of this year and I'm happy to say that Mark's done a great job of maintain both the inside and the outside of his very cool Ferrari.
Good discussion guys.... keep it going...
Vegas Transplant
Active member
- Oct 11, 2011
- 4,447
- 3
As time progresses and as you reach the pinnacle in your skill set I truly hope you open the door to this wonderful time saving tool and what it can offer.
EDIT: gonna have to get a PE-8 soon myself. Gonna fit nicely in my arsenal.
:iagree::iagree::iagree:
TheDetailGeeks
New member
- Jul 10, 2013
- 63
- 0
- Thread starter
- #47
I'm not detailing for money anymore. Only doing it on my own cars now.
I stick to my real estate career these days
TheDetailGeeks
New member
- Jul 10, 2013
- 63
- 0
- Thread starter
- #48
Want it? I'm thinking about going back to a DA.
TheDetailGeeks
New member
- Jul 10, 2013
- 63
- 0
- Thread starter
- #49
Those swirls came with the car. The photos actually show a big improvement from where that panel was a week ago.
The roof (which I haven't polished yet) will give you an idea of what I started with:
A better version of the pic from page 2:
Calendyr
New member
- Jun 9, 2013
- 3,996
- 0
There are dangers with rotary buffers. It's very easy to burn through an edge if you are using an agressive pad like a wool pad.
With foam pads, you would almost have to want to cause damage. I watched a video this winter where the guy put a rotary on a single spot for something like 20 seconds and it only did a little damage.
TFTADetail
New member
- Apr 22, 2015
- 319
- 0
Rotary + Black = AWESOMENESS
I think if you are going to try it that you just have to do it. You have nothing to fear but fear itself. (I think someone else said this too. LOL) Seriously, though; I admire you for just getting out there and doing it with a rotary polisher. I bought a Flex rotary, and in the back of my mind was "If I get holograms, I'll erase them with my 3401", and that helped me with the decision to buy the rotary. I won't feel as if I can detail unless I can master a rotary polisher, and I know that I can and will make some mistakes. I'll going to do my best not to, but realistically; mistakes are how you learn and advance. I just do my vehicles, so there's a difference between me and a person who details other people's cars for a living. A mistake there can do serious harm to another's car as well as to a detailer's business and reputation. So I understand the reluctance. But for me, I HAVE to do this.