Why is the Flex 3401 considered so powerful?

ASPHALT ROCKET said:
Just one thing to remember when purchasing a tool. You should look at the quality of the tool maker not how powerful the tool is. Just because it has more power does not mean it is a better tool. The accessories and the operator of said tool is what gets the results and most of all knowledge of what you are doing.
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I agree 100%. The "science" of tools interests me, too.
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
I completely understand, funny how sometimes a thread can go south real fast... :props:
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I'm all too familiar with that! :laughing: I definitely have a better handle on things now(I know you weren't implying me, I'm just saying). :)


Thanks Mike. :dblthumb2:
 
07 z-oh-6 said:
It only spins at 4800 MAX OPM. Even if you can't make the pad stop spinning, 4800 MAX OPM isn't very impressive. While some of you may want to post the Flex spins at 9600 MAX OPM, it's simply not true. This has been verified independently several times. So, why is the 3401 considered a "beast" of random orbital machines? :)
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LOL, who says the max speed for a Flex 3401 is 4800 OPM?
 
Thanks, but I'll stick to Flex's specifications on the machine.

I can tell you that I have a PC7424, a PC7424XP, and a Flex and the Flex is ridiculously more powerful than both machines. The PC7424XP offers only marginally better performance than the 7424, and most of that comes from increased smoothness (at every setting, the 7424XP is just a little faster and a little smoother than the 7424). I still use my Porter Cables and they have a place on my shelf, but the Flex is undoubtedly the better machine.

I'm curious how the new Griot's DA and the new G110 v2 stack up against the Flex. Sooner or later I will break down and buy at least one of them (leaning towards the G110 v2) as I have a dream of having my own army of DA machines.
 
According to my research the Flex 3401 has an R.P.M. rating of 160-480 and a Sroke rate of 3200-9600.

The mechanical design of this machine gives 20 strokes per 1 revolution of the tool's output shaft. So what I see in the research that I have done is that this tool is not rated or measured in orbits at all but in Strokes. The high side of this tool puts out 9600 "strokes per minute" or "S.P.M"
 
The Flex 3401 drive mechanism works on the same basic principle as the spirograph drawing toy that some of you may remember as a kid.

If further illustration of this fact is desired, (Flex users) simply think about the marks the Flex leaves on the paint when the polish begins to gum up in the pad. It kind of looks like a 20 pointed star.

Next pull the backing plate off and study the gears on the underside of the backing plate and inside the metal bell shaped housing, study these in relation to the tools offset where the center of the backing plate screws on. Finally go to Wikipedia and type spirograph in the search bar and study the design of the spirograph toy, you will see right away that the same basic mechanical principles are at work both with the toy and the Flex 3401 drive mechanism.

Doing this will illustrate how the 20 strokes per revolution is achieved.
 
tuscarora dave said:
According to my research the Flex 3401 has an R.P.M. rating of 160-480 and a Sroke rate of 3200-9600.

The mechanical design of this machine gives 20 strokes per 1 revolution of the tool's output shaft. So what I see in the research that I have done is that this tool is not rated or measured in orbits at all but in Strokes. The high side of this tool puts out 9600 "strokes per minute" or "S.P.M"
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SPM would be different than OPM, right?
 
I too would like to see more facts on the unit ... it clearly had an edge over the past RA's being offered and have seen nothing to suggest that it lost the entire edge.

Dave can you tell us more about these different figures and how they should be referenced.
 
CEE DOG said:
Good point! You would think with the effort put into the tool they would have sprung for a 304 SS gear but that SS is awfull pricey. I suppose with the plastics of today it may be possible to manufacture the right plastic to be a great solution. Have you found yours to show substantial wear? I haven't seen any but haven't had mine long enough either.
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If you look at and really study and understand the operating principle of the Flex 3401 drive mechanism you will see that the plastic gears really dont take much of a strain at all. Even with very little applied strain at all, stainless steel gears would heat up and shed metal shavings all over the car while polishing. I can only imagine what a mess that would make. The coefficient of friction is much better with plastics over metals.
 
killrwheels@autogeek said:
I too would like to see more facts on the unit ... it clearly had an edge over the past RA's being offered and have seen nothing to suggest that it lost the entire edge.

Dave can you tell us more about these different figures and how they should be referenced.
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I started this thread because I wanted clarification. Even though the Flex 3401 spins at MAX 4800 OPM, it's the *forced rotation* that makes it so effective. I didn't realize how much forced rotation plays a factor.
 
Raw power is not everything and is not the only scorecard for grading the capability of a polisher...

It seems as though high OPM is the new *hype* for machines just like Megapixels is for cameras
 
I took the plunge($495) and ordered the Festool Rotex 150 FEQ dual mode polisher. I'm anxious to compare it to the 3401. Festool offers a 30 day money back guarantee(no questions asked). :buffing:
 
07 z-oh-6 said:
I started this thread because I wanted clarification. Even though the Flex 3401 spins at MAX 4800 OPM, it's the *forced rotation* that makes it so effective. I didn't realize how much forced rotation plays a factor.
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I don't know if we will actually ever find true clarity simply by looking at specifications at DA machines. But I can tell you that the Flex 3401 is NOT an overpriced machine, in my opinion. But at the same time, it SEEMS that the new G110 V2 and the new Griot's DA offer better bang for the buck.
 
Emile said:
I don't know if we will actually ever find true clarity simply by looking at specifications at DA machines. But I can tell you that the Flex 3401 is NOT an overpriced machine, in my opinion. But at the same time, it SEEMS that the new G110 V2 and the new Griot's DA offer better bang for the buck.
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The 3401 is an awesome machine, no doubt. :xyxthumbs:

I've used both Griot's DA and Megs G110v2. They are both very capable polishers in the right hands. FWIW, with the Griot's, it's much harder to stop the pad from rotating.
 
07 z-oh-6 said:
I started this thread because I wanted clarification. Even though the Flex 3401 spins at MAX 4800 OPM, it's the *forced rotation* that makes it so effective. I didn't realize how much forced rotation plays a factor.
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Dave can you tell us more about these different figures and how they should be referenced.


The 3401 only spins at a max of 480 R.P.M. , To see the big picture here one would need to temporarily abandon the thought of O.P.M. because they just don't fully apply in what is creating the correction with the 3401. This can be a bit tricky to explain the mechanics of this tool in a forum but I'll try.

The 3401 has a steel gear driven shaft that comes out of the gearbox that spins at 480 R.P.M. when I say gear box I don't mean the plastic gears above the backing plate.

Mounted to the end of that steel shaft is a metal disc of sorts which has a threaded hole in the disc on an eccentric or offset if you will. The backing plate is attached through a bearing on the backing plate with the hex (allen) screw. This mounting location on the disc is the only thing that is actually orbiting. This sounds a bit contradictory because since the center of the backing plate is orbiting obviously so is the entire backing plate. and this is where the spirograph comes into play.

The drive or central output shaft is what creates the forced rotation. The disc with the threaded hole in it creates an eliptical orbit but it is still 480 eliptical orbits. (this is why I say O.P.M. doesn't fully apply with this type of tool) This is where it gets tricky, the backing plate gear (which has less teeth than the bell housing gear) and the bell housing gear only mesh in a small area at any given time. (maybe 33% of the teeth)

It is the action of these plastic gear teeth meshing during this eliptical orbit that creates the 20 strokes per 1 revolution. (see the design made by the spirograph toy)

20 strokes x 480 revolutions per minute = 9600 strokes. So the backing plate is actually stroking back and forth 9600 times combined with the backing plate rotating 480 times, this all occurs within 1 minute at speed setting #6. That makes for some pretty good correction and the plastic gears only have the strain caused by the drag of the pad against the paint which isn't much.

As far as power goes it would be like measuring the horse power at the wheels on a car, in that is is geared power. I think if I tried to grab the backing plate and pad and stop it with my hand I would have some broken or at least injured fingers. So this tool has tremendous power. much more power than that of a rotary because it is geared to spin at only 480 R.P.M. but that power has nothing (other than the ability to apply downward pressure) to do with the rate of correction.

Like I said it is a bit tricky to explain in written words, hopefully this will shed some light on your understanding of the tool. If you go to Flex's website and look at the PDF catalogs you will clearly see that they are a serious power tool manufacturer with high quality tools
 
tuscarora dave said:
Dave can you tell us more about these different figures and how they should be referenced.


The 3401 only spins at a max of 480 R.P.M. , To see the big picture here one would need to temporarily abandon the thought of O.P.M. because they just don't fully apply in what is creating the correction with the 3401. This can be a bit tricky to explain the mechanics of this tool in a forum but I'll try.

The 3401 has a steel gear driven shaft that comes out of the gearbox that spins at 480 R.P.M. when I say gear box I don't mean the plastic gears above the backing plate.

Mounted to the end of that steel shaft is a metal disc of sorts which has a threaded hole in the disc on an eccentric or offset if you will. The backing plate is attached through a bearing on the backing plate with the hex (allen) screw. This mounting location on the disc is the only thing that is actually orbiting. This sounds a bit contradictory because since the center of the backing plate is orbiting obviously so is the entire backing plate. and this is where the spirograph comes into play.

The drive or central output shaft is what creates the forced rotation. The disc with the threaded hole in it creates an eliptical orbit but it is still 480 eliptical orbits. (this is why I say O.P.M. doesn't fully apply with this type of tool) This is where it gets tricky, the backing plate gear (which has less teeth than the bell housing gear) and the bell housing gear only mesh in a small area at any given time. (maybe 33% of the teeth)

It is the action of these plastic gear teeth meshing during this eliptical orbit that creates the 20 strokes per 1 revolution. (see the design made by the spirograph toy)

20 strokes x 480 revolutions per minute = 9600 strokes. So the backing plate is actually stroking back and forth 9600 times combined with the backing plate rotating 480 times, this all occurs within 1 minute at speed setting #6. That makes for some pretty good correction and the plastic gears only have the strain caused by the drag of the pad against the paint which isn't much.

As far as power goes it would be like measuring the horse power at the wheels on a car, in that is is geared power. I think if I tried to grab the backing plate and pad and stop it with my hand I would have some broken or at least injured fingers. So this tool has tremendous power. much more power than that of a rotary because it is geared to spin at only 480 R.P.M. but that power has nothing (other than the ability to apply downward pressure) to do with the rate of correction.

Like I said it is a bit tricky to explain in written words, hopefully this will shed some light on your understanding of the tool. If you go to Flex's website and look at the PDF catalogs you will clearly see that they are a serious power tool manufacturer with high quality tools
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Good information.

Don't if you saw my earlier post, but is "strokes per minute" different than "orbits per minute" ?
 
Thinking further into this the plate actually doesn't rotate at 480 R.P.M, it would depend on the gear ratio of the plastic gears to determine how many time the plate actually spins in a minute so it would be less than 480 but I couldn't give a number for sure
 
tuscarora dave said:
So what I see in the research that I have done is that this tool is not rated or measured in orbits at all but in Strokes. The high side of this tool puts out 9600 "strokes per minute" or "S.P.M"
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:dunno:
 
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