Why isn't everyone using coatings if it is "better" than sealants?

[Maestro Sam]

I have done coatings for many cars and plus my car. I have repeat customers who coated their car by me and get a monthly wash. Seems like its working especially on soft paint cars. The side pillars which I coated as well is hardly swirling as much as a naked car would. Vehicles that have been coated have better paints then non coated vehicles. Trust me, I get a lot of weekly customers and wash their vehicles every two weeks or so.

 

[tdekany]

This post may not be a popular one with some members, but here it is. You have coatings like OPTI COAT PRO, or OTPI COAT PRO PLUS, that are permanent coatings. They do not require toppers, sealants etc... to prolong the product. Once this ceramic clear coat is applied to the vehicle, it becomes one with the OEM clear coat underneath it. Opti Coat stays there permanently. The initial curing time of Opti Coat Pro is 4 weeks - what does that mean? 1 - Do not wash the car for 7 days. 2 - Use ONR (OPTIMUM NO RINSE) for the first month as the only soap. (Once Opti Coat is cured/hardened it is up to you how you wash the car) Using ONR to "wash" the finish is a superior way of doing it, for a number of reasons. Anyway, otherwise, the only thing that is asked of the owner of the coated vehicle is to wash it regularly. Of course life isn't perfect and most owners stop following this one simple request. In that case, owners are encouraged to come back to the installer for an annual "clean up". That is it. Anyone questioning the durability of Opti Coat Pro, may not be aware that the oldest Opti Coated vehicle that is documented is 8 years old. The car goes back once a year for a "clean up detail" to Yvan Lacroix in Canada. Then, you have semi permanent coatings, that do wear away just like a traditional wax or sealant, but we are talking about a couple of years instead of a couple of month. But, these coatings sit on top of the OEM clear coat, just like a traditional LSP, and wear away. That is the reason why many companies who offer these "Nano Sealants" also offer "toppers" for them. I think the confusion comes from how these "coatings" are marketed. However the chemistry is very different between Opti Coat and the competition.

To learn about the differences, please listen to Podcast #6 - Dr G's explanation should provide the answer many of you are asking. OPTIMUM SYNERGY PODCAST | Opti-Coat LLC - The episode is the second one from the bottom of the page, so please scroll down. Enjoy.

I wonder if coatings are just seen as snake oil by a lot of people who are used to certain methods of detailing cars. I know when I first started detailing, I wondered if it was just too good to be true.

 

[yg1829]

This post may not be a popular one with some members, but here it is. You have coatings like OPTI COAT PRO, or OTPI COAT PRO PLUS, that are permanent coatings. They do not require toppers, sealants etc... to prolong the product. Once this ceramic clear coat is applied to the vehicle, it becomes one with the OEM clear coat underneath it. Opti Coat stays there permanently. The initial curing time of Opti Coat Pro is 4 weeks - what does that mean? 1 - Do not wash the car for 7 days. 2 - Use ONR (OPTIMUM NO RINSE) for the first month as the only soap. (Once Opti Coat is cured/hardened it is up to you how you wash the car) Using ONR to "wash" the finish is a superior way of doing it, for a number of reasons. Anyway, otherwise, the only thing that is asked of the owner of the coated vehicle is to wash it regularly. Of course life isn't perfect and most owners stop following this one simple request. In that case, owners are encouraged to come back to the installer for an annual "clean up". That is it. Anyone questioning the durability of Opti Coat Pro, may not be aware that the oldest Opti Coated vehicle that is documented is 8 years old. The car goes back once a year for a "clean up detail" to Yvan Lacroix in Canada. Then, you have semi permanent coatings, that do wear away just like a traditional wax or sealant, but we are talking about a couple of years instead of a couple of month. But, these coatings sit on top of the OEM clear coat, just like a traditional LSP, and wear away. That is the reason why many companies who offer these "Nano Sealants" also offer "toppers" for them. I think the confusion comes from how these "coatings" are marketed. However the chemistry is very different between Opti Coat and the competition.

To learn about the differences, please listen to Podcast #6 - Dr G's explanation should provide the answer many of you are asking. OPTIMUM SYNERGY PODCAST | Opti-Coat LLC - The episode is the second one from the bottom of the page, so please scroll down. Enjoy.

Does gloss coat become part of the clear like opti coat?

The reason I ask is because it also doesn't need toppers like other coatings.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[dmayer]

Interesting read. I remember years ago some guy (in England I think) did 50 coatings of Zaino on his car. The prevailing view at the time was that he probably removed a layer previously applied every time he added one. Me? I kinda liked BFWD and got a good 2-3 months out of it and it was easy enough to apply that I just kept the car slick with quarterly applications. I never got into the coating thing. I heard several folks complain the surface wasn't slick and or it was PITA to apply not to mention the price. At the time a buddy of mine swore he could coat a car with what I considered a crazy small amount of product. I know there was no way I could do that. Now that I retired from detailing and just killing time today, I see by this thread that not that much has changed. Oh, and I wash my car every 2-3 months and could care less. I moved on to trying to have the nicest lawn, and has anybody else noticed fire ants have taken over?

You're ok as long as the ant don't pile up like in the old old movie Phase IV. ha

 

[The Guz]

Does gloss coat become part of the clear like opti coat?

The reason I ask is because it also doesn't need toppers like other coatings.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

This should help answer your questions. Straight from Yvan of Optimum

 

[tdekany]

The new formula of GC is 3 years.

 

[WillSports3]

To be honest, I feel like half the time you ask some of these companies about their coatings, they take shots at other competitors coatings while basically giving you the same answer as in "Our coating is the real deal and the best one." Some companies say "Upto 1/2/3 years because every environment is different." Others say "We guarantee 2 years because of this this and this." At the same time I've seen it recommended to top Glosscoat with Optiseal to give it a slick feeling just as Reload is recommended for CQuartz as well as Gyeon Cure for the MOHS coating. Every coating company has their coating, as well as something like Reload. I don't think any coating NEEDS to be topped or rejuvenated within their durability time frame. I think it just has to be washed with something that doesn't leave any wax or synthetic protection behind to not impede the contact angle of the coating as well as impede the look of a coating but other wise, stuff like Reload, Cure and Optiseal can be used to prolong a coating. Alot of non-PBMG coatings say something along the line of "After one hour, apply Reload/Optiseal/Cure to protect the coating against waterspots and the like. But every single one of them always says something like "Well this isn't like our competitors coating because of x y and z." I just think you like whatever coating you like because you like whatever wax/sealant you like. I love Cquartz UK for ease of application and the price. Not a huge fan of Optimum Gloss-Coat just because of the price. 70 dollars versus 100 for the same quantity basically. I think Gloss-Coat performs great, but I get a lot more coating if I spend 100 bucks with many other companies, including the PBMG coatings.

 

[spazzz]

What is this in reference to? (the middle two)

 

[tdekany]

You do not need to top Gloss Coat. If any time you have any issues or questions, you can call Dr G.

He is the chemist making Opti Coat/Gloss Coat in Memphis TN. Not some "distributor" selling the product.

Did you take the time to listen to the podcast?

To be honest, I feel like half the time you ask some of these companies about their coatings, they take shots at other competitors coatings while basically giving you the same answer as in "Our coating is the real deal and the best one." Some companies say "Upto 1/2/3 years because every environment is different." Others say "We guarantee 2 years because of this this and this." At the same time I've seen it recommended to top Glosscoat with Optiseal to give it a slick feeling just as Reload is recommended for CQuartz as well as Gyeon Cure for the MOHS coating. Every coating company has their coating, as well as something like Reload. I don't think any coating NEEDS to be topped or rejuvenated within their durability time frame. I think it just has to be washed with something that doesn't leave any wax or synthetic protection behind to not impede the contact angle of the coating as well as impede the look of a coating but other wise, stuff like Reload, Cure and Optiseal can be used to prolong a coating. Alot of non-PBMG coatings say something along the line of "After one hour, apply Reload/Optiseal/Cure to protect the coating against waterspots and the like. But every single one of them always says something like "Well this isn't like our competitors coating because of x y and z." I just think you like whatever coating you like because you like whatever wax/sealant you like. I love Cquartz UK for ease of application and the price. Not a huge fan of Optimum Gloss-Coat just because of the price. 70 dollars versus 100 for the same quantity basically. I think Gloss-Coat performs great, but I get a lot more coating if I spend 100 bucks with many other companies, including the PBMG coatings.

 

[The Guz]

To be honest, I feel like half the time you ask some of these companies about their coatings, they take shots at other competitors coatings while basically giving you the same answer as in "Our coating is the real deal and the best one." Some companies say "Upto 1/2/3 years because every environment is different." Others say "We guarantee 2 years because of this this and this." At the same time I've seen it recommended to top Glosscoat with Optiseal to give it a slick feeling just as Reload is recommended for CQuartz as well as Gyeon Cure for the MOHS coating. Every coating company has their coating, as well as something like Reload. I don't think any coating NEEDS to be topped or rejuvenated within their durability time frame. I think it just has to be washed with something that doesn't leave any wax or synthetic protection behind to not impede the contact angle of the coating as well as impede the look of a coating but other wise, stuff like Reload, Cure and Optiseal can be used to prolong a coating. Alot of non-PBMG coatings say something along the line of "After one hour, apply Reload/Optiseal/Cure to protect the coating against waterspots and the like. But every single one of them always says something like "Well this isn't like our competitors coating because of x y and z." I just think you like whatever coating you like because you like whatever wax/sealant you like. I love Cquartz UK for ease of application and the price. Not a huge fan of Optimum Gloss-Coat just because of the price. 70 dollars versus 100 for the same quantity basically. I think Gloss-Coat performs great, but I get a lot more coating if I spend 100 bucks with many other companies, including the PBMG coatings.

I will post this here as well. Gloss Coat does not need to be topped. It is only recommended during the 7 day cure time. Other than that it is not needed. There is a lot of misinformation around. On top of that, Opti Seal is a dedicated sealant and not a coating maintenance product. Nothing like Reload or Cure.

Here's another

What is this in reference to? (the middle two)

Someone asked what the make up of Gloss Coat is. Now you know

Here is the original question

 

[emmjay]

Back to the thread topic.....

Here's another thread with another drawback of coatings, like PBL v2 lol. Does anyone else have this issue?

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...-pinnacle-black-diamond-v2-paint-coating.html

The more I am on this forum, the more I am leaning AWAY from coatings. hmmm

 

[Blackdevil77]

Back to the thread topic.....

Here's another thread with another drawback of coatings, like PBL v2 lol. Does anyone else have this issue?

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...-pinnacle-black-diamond-v2-paint-coating.html

The more I am on this forum, the more I am leaning AWAY from coatings. hmmm

That's why I decided to go with Gloss Coat. It gives you that layer of protection, and according to them, you can put any non abrasive wax/sealant over it that you want. I like the water behavior of collinite 845 so I was planning on topping it with that once it cures, as long as they play nice together.

 

[TTQ B4U]

That's why I decided to go with Gloss Coat. It gives you that layer of protection, and according to them, you can put any non abrasive wax/sealant over it that you want. I like the water behavior of collinite 845 so I was planning on topping it with that once it cures, as long as they play nice together.

McKee's 37 can be topped like PBL can. My S4 has 476 on top of the coating.

 

[yg1829]

This should help answer your questions. Straight from Yvan of Optimum

Thank you sir!! Perfectly answered.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

This has become a very interesting thread and I want to take a moment to interject the below...


We all love a healthy discussion and this topic on coatings is a healthy. That said, we're not going to allow this thread to turn ugly. It's not going to happen. So here's the link to our forum rules.


Forum Rules


Here's a few to take note of...

3. You are welcome to disagree but you must be polite.

4. No bashing any company or their products. No bashing other people.



Just want to make sure this thread doesn't go south.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

A comment about the word permanent...


As for the word permanent and it's definition in the context of automotive paint coatings, be they ceramic or quartz, here's something I wrote over 6 years ago. Before finalizing the copy, I called and discussed the word and the definition with my long time and good friend, Dr. David Ghodoussi. What I wrote was with both his consent and approval. It's actually an article and I've included the link to the full article and thread.


Posted on March 3rd, 2011

3-Categories: Waxes, Paint Sealants and Coatings

In an effort to help standardize terms used in the detailing industry, now that CQuartz and Opti-Coat 2.0 are mainstream, there are three general categories in the "Protection" category

• Waxes
• Paint Sealants
• Coatings

Waxes
Generally defined as any product that contains a natural or synthetic waxy ingredients that are intended to protect the paint and/or add beauty to the paint. These types traditional waxes will wear off under normal wear-n-tear, repeated washings and exposure to the environment.


Paint Sealants
Generally defined as any protection product that contains man-made or synthetic ingredients that are intended to protect the paint and/or add beauty to the paint. These traditional sealants will wear off under normal wear-n-tear, repeated washings and exposure to the environment.


Coatings
Generally defined as any paint protection product that contains man-made or synthetic protection ingredients that are intended to permanently bond to the paint to both provide a barrier-coating of protection as well as create a clear, high gloss finish. The products available in this category are considered permanent coatings because like your car's paint, they cannot be removed unless you purposefully remove them or you purposefully neglect them.

Definition of permanent in the context of sealing paint
This is kind of tricky just because the nature of discussion forums is for some personality types to read super literal into each and every single word, in this case the word permanent.

per·ma·nent (pûrm-nnt)
adj.

1. Lasting or remaining without essential change: "the universal human yearning for something permanent, enduring, without shadow of change" (Willa Cather).

2. Not expected to change in status, condition, or place: a permanent address; permanent secretary to the president.
n.

In the context that we refer to coating as permanent it means that once the coating is properly applied and allowed to cure and set-up, it will not come off under normal circumstances or via normal wear-n-tear such as careful washing. So in this context, a coating is permanent in the same manner your car's paint is permanent.

The paint on your car is not going to come off unless you abrade it, chemically dissolve it or in some other mechanical means, purposefully remove it. In this same way, legitimate paint coatings are not going to come off unless you abrade it, chemically dissolve it or on some other mechanical means, purposefully remove it.

Traditional car waxes and paint sealants will wear off under normal use circumstances or via normal wear-n-tear such as careful washing. So in the context of and in comparison with traditional car waxes and paint sealants, paint coatings are permanent.

​

It's possible that due to changes and improvement in chemistry what I wrote is no longer accurate but I just read the entire passage that relates to the word permanent and 6 years later it still reads accurate at least to me.


If anyone can point out where it's inaccurate, please explain in detail.

 

[The Guz]

Back to the thread topic.....

Here's another thread with another drawback of coatings, like PBL v2 lol. Does anyone else have this issue?

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...-pinnacle-black-diamond-v2-paint-coating.html

The more I am on this forum, the more I am leaning AWAY from coatings. hmmm

Reading that thread it seems like it was user error and the car was not dried completely. My mom's car has PBL V2 and is coming up on 1 year with PBL. It has no water spotting.

 

[Jowillie]

So does that mean "maintenance" to a coating is simply adding back any hydrophobic and gloss enhancement that may have gone away with the permanent coating?
In other words, is the coating still there, we just still need to remove accumilated contaminants? Then add back the enhancement properties?
Is that why it's recommended to use the same manufacturers maintenance products for boosting because it has some of the same "ceramic' properties to bond to the existing coating?
(This process needs to be thoroughly and simply explained without all the hype, so we can explain it to customers and justify the cost over time.)
Thanks.

 

[tdekany]

So does that mean "maintenance" to a coating is simply adding back any hydrophobic and gloss enhancement that may have gone away with the permanent coating?
In other words, is the coating still there, we just still need to remove accumilated contaminants? Then add back the enhancement properties?
Is that why it's recommended to use the same manufacturers maintenance products for boosting because it has some of the same "ceramic' properties to bond to the existing coating?
(This process needs to be thoroughly and simply explained without all the hype, so we can explain it to customers and justify the cost over time.)
Thanks.

It isn't clear from your post which coating you are talking about. If you have a pro coating that you are using, check the description - most "coatings" are NOT permanent.

 

[tdekany]

If anyone can point out where it's inaccurate, please explain in detail

Unless I am miss reading it (wouldn't be the first time) This statement below is not accurate.

Traditional car waxes and paint sealants will wear off under normal use circumstances or via normal wear-n-tear such as careful washing. So in the context of and in comparison with traditional car waxes and paint sealants, paint coatings are permanent.

Most coatings are not permanent - they sit on top of the OEM clear just like waxes and sealants and slooooooowwly but surely wear away.rops: