Lesson Learned... Still Not Over It..

Wow! The DISO must have been really really bad. Sorry to hear you have to go through this :( Hopefully you can get it worked out.

Doubt it was "really really bad"... Looking at Todd's site, I bet that quote is just for a 2 step correction and full coating (paint and wheels).
 
Doubt it was "really really bad"... Looking at Todd's site, I bet that quote is just for a 2 step correction and full coating (paint and wheels).

Good point. You get what you pay for, and in that case, top quality workmanship.
 
I have a meeting with a corporate guy on Wednesday. The service manager lost his cool with me the second I questioned their washing technique...He lost it.. Anyways, another gentleman came over to help and basically just told me what I wanted to hear to get me out of there. When the first manager asked me what will make it better, I responded with getting it fixed by a detailer of my choice.

He said his shop performs work on the same level as anyone around so I decided to ask five questions. Their guy in charge of detailing was there so I thought it would be a good example as to why I dont trust them working on my car.

1) What is a DA polisher?
- Did not know

2) What is the difference between wax, sealant, and coating?
- We use sealant, doesnt know what coating is or what the lifespan differences are between waxes, sealants and coatings

3) Have you ever heard of Menzerna?
- No

4) How many pads do you use in a two-step correction?
- No answer

5) How many towels do you use and what type?
- "We dont use towels. We use a microfiber and chamois"

I printed off all of my AG receipts and brought them in so they could see how much money (more than I thought...) was put into maintaining the finish that they destroyed in 10 minutes. I claimed that it would not be fair in anyway to give my car anything less than it was when I brought it in to them. I used much more expensive products and took over ten hours to detail it last time.

Im hoping for a good meeting Wednesday, its all upsetting and they show zero remorse for the swirls or what they did. The guy had the audacity to look at some rock chips on my front bumper and say I dont get why you care about these scratches when you have these awful looking chips.

Also, he asked me what the quote was from the detailer I found and he responded to me with "You are off your freaking rocker". Thanks for the tip of going to Todd, I have a correction and coating set up with him for the 4th and 5th pending the meeting on Wednesday. His shop looks amazing from his site.


b0b,

Thank you for sharing the above, it shows that you are way more knowledgeable about car detailing than any of the managers at this dealership and you went into this meeting armed to the teeth with your knowledge.

Knowledge is Power


I would either print this thread out or e-mail them the link to it.




Todd is known as one of the best in the world for a reason... your car will be in MORE than capable hands :dblthumb2:


I would agree with you on that. I've never seen Todd's work first hand but I've met Todd a couple of times now at SEMA and have always been very impressed with his professional demeanor. He's also a very good writer on the topic of car detailing.



All they do is prep them and get them out, that usually is just cleaning them up and putting a fast coat of wax on them with a Rotary buffer...... What they do is squirt wax on the cars in various places so they can go over the whole car quick without stopping. Takes like a few mins per car.

Yep... that's how a lot of dealerships do it... been there, seen it myself. Absolutely horrified me to think of all the damage being done to a clear coat finish that is thinner than a 3M Post-it Note.


I have a very good article on the above topic here,


The story of 3 H's - Horrendous, Horror Story and Hack Detailers...


Horrendous
Here's my definition of horrendous...

Horrendous004.jpg







Well they offered 300 and the quote to fix it and protect it from Todd in Columbus is $2,000. Next step is small claims court

That's a lot less than a quality new paint job.


:xyxthumbs:
 
Yep... that's how a lot of dealerships do it... been there, seen it myself. Absolutely horrified me to think of all the damage being done to a clear coat finish that is thinner than a 3M Post-it Note.


I have a very good article on the above topic here,


The story of 3 H's - Horrendous, Horror Story and Hack Detailers...


Horrendous
Here's my definition of horrendous...

Horrendous004.jpg



:xyxthumbs:


Yeah I have seen it too and more than a few times at different places.

All I could do is shake my head and laugh because all it's doing to the cars finish is like what your picture shows.
 
Just an update: Instead of taking it to small claims we settled somewhere in the middle. I'm taking my car to a shop that I found locally that looks like they do solid work. I checked it out today and they agreed to let me stay and watch/learn/ask questions.

Ever since I have been on AG I've been restricted to learning from YouTube videos and articles and these message boards so it will be cool watching someone else do it and learn.

Anyways, I am getting the paint correction (he's thinking one step) and then opti coat 2.0. Also, I'm getting some other areas wet sanded to fix other defects.

I'll post some pictures when it's done, hopefully Thursday or Friday

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Oh yeah, I washed it for the first time since Lexus washed it and it was horrific. The sun peaked out and it was depressing. Oh well can't wait to get it fixed Thursday

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Just an update: Instead of taking it to small claims we settled somewhere in the middle. I'm taking my car to a shop that I found locally that looks like they do solid work. I checked it out today and they agreed to let me stay and watch/learn/ask questions.

Ever since I have been on AG I've been restricted to learning from YouTube videos and articles and these message boards so it will be cool watching someone else do it and learn.

Anyways, I am getting the paint correction (he's thinking one step) and then opti coat 2.0. Also, I'm getting some other areas wet sanded to fix other defects.

I'll post some pictures when it's done, hopefully Thursday or Friday

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Sounds like it worked out well, to your favor in fact. :dblthumb2:

Getting it repaired to your satisfaction = rewarding.

Being able to be a part of the process, looking, learning, asking questions = PRICELESS. Im the MAN

Can't wait for the photos! :)
 
xxxxxxxxx in Cincinnati. Google them I dk if putting website link up is allowed here or not.

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xxxxxxxxx in Cincinnati. Google them I dk if putting website link up is allowed here or not.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


Just curious, through this whole ordeal I don't think we've seen you post any pictures? You know the old saying, a picture is worth a thousand words. I'm sure we'd all like to see them.
 
xxxxxxxx in Cincinnati. Google them I dk if putting website link up is allowed here or not.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

Hmmm, interesting site. He's doing OC, lifetime coverage for $600. WOW, that's a bargain!
Be interesting to see if he's polishing with a rotary or a DA first. :dunno:
I know a lot of guys are getting that and then some for a single stage buff and a WOWO sealant. Throw in OC or CQuartz and it'll hit $850 in a hurry. I'm willing to bet that Black Label 850 will be in that lineup sooner rather than later. :props:

I've always found it a bit funny that the 5 year warranty asks for no recurring maintenance yet the 'lifetime' warranty requires "ANNUAL VISIT TO DETAILER/INSTALLER FOR THE FOLLOWING SERVICES: HAND WASH & DRY. SURFACE INSPECTION. PAINT DECONTAMINATION IF NECESSARY".

Wow, don't have to wash the car but once a year to qualify. :rolleyes: For an extra $100 that's a no brainer. :) OTOH, I'd be doing the 5 year, washing it weekly and sealing it probably every 2~3 months. But I'm weird like that. :rolleyes:
 
Hmmm, interesting site. He's doing OC, lifetime coverage for $600. WOW, that's a bargain!
Be interesting to see if he's polishing with a rotary or a DA first. :dunno:
I know a lot of guys are getting that and then some for a single stage buff and a WOWO sealant. Throw in OC or CQuartz and it'll hit $850 in a hurry. I'm willing to bet that Black Label 850 will be in that lineup sooner rather than later. :props:

I've always found it a bit funny that the 5 year warranty asks for no recurring maintenance yet the 'lifetime' warranty requires "ANNUAL VISIT TO DETAILER/INSTALLER FOR THE FOLLOWING SERVICES: HAND WASH & DRY. SURFACE INSPECTION. PAINT DECONTAMINATION IF NECESSARY".

Wow, don't have to wash the car but once a year to qualify. :rolleyes: For an extra $100 that's a no brainer. :) OTOH, I'd be doing the 5 year, washing it weekly and sealing it probably every 2~3 months. But I'm weird like that. :rolleyes:

FWIW - All warrantied coatings are subject to following proper maintenance guidelines.

opti-coat.net said:
Warranty Will Be Deemed Invalid If The Following Transpire
-Neglect to maintain the vehicle according to the standards and techniques recommended.
-Damage caused by abrasive compounds and polishes and third party products.
-Damage, either accidental or malicious, including but not limited to fire, flood, extreme weather conditions and secondary effects that may result from the foregoing.
-Failure to repair and re-#treat surfaces subject to accident damage.
-Failure to adhere to requirements listed under the terms and conditions of this warranty.

The above statement applies to both the 5 year warranty and the Lifetime Warranty. It is the job of the installer to educate the customer on proper maintenance. Best case scenario is that the customer simply allow the installer to maintain their car on a regular basis.

Warranty
 
Just curious, through this whole ordeal I don't think we've seen you post any pictures? You know the old saying, a picture is worth a thousand words. I'm sure we'd all like to see them.

Honestly haven't had the opportunity to take a good photo in the sun. The sun highlights every single one of the nasty swirls. Alot of them are scratches too not even swirls. It looks like the wash mitt or rag had rocks in it because all the scratches go in ways that coincide with washing a car...

Anyways, I took some photos late last night (did my best anyways). When I get home I'll post them up.

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FWIW - All warrantied coatings are subject to following proper maintenance guidelines.



The above statement applies to both the 5 year warranty and the Lifetime Warranty. It is the job of the installer to educate the customer on proper maintenance. Best case scenario is that the customer simply allow the installer to maintain their car on a regular basis.

Warranty

It's not that I haven't seen the warranty verbiage before Zach, just that it's ambiguous at best. I mean sure; no commercial vehicles, non transferrable, no accident damage is covered, etc. etc. etc.

But.... in accordance with the MINIMUM standards:
****************************************
The following forms the minimum requirements for the Optimum Maintenance Plan. Additional services are available at clients’ request. Contact your Opti-­Coat agent for pricing.
ANNUAL VISIT TO DEALER / DEALERSHIP FOR THE FOLLOWING SERVICES: HAND WASH & DRY. SURFACE INSPECTION. PAINT DECONTAMINATION IF NECESSARY.

****************************************

Sure, there is the vague statement that you should keep it up "according to the requirements of the Optimum Maintenance Plan", but that is above. A single visit and hand wash once a year. :eek:

I do suppose the 'saving grace' is "Line 1" of the General Terms & Conditions": "Any application, re-­application, repair work or other work carried out on the coated surface must be applied/reapplied or repaired by an authorized Opti-­Coat agent."

In other words, if ANYBODY touches the "coated surface" to apply ANYTHING there is an 'out' where as an authorized installer I/you/he could say "But you polished it with a black pad and a non-abrasive paint cleaner. Then you put a sealant on top, how DARE you." :rolleyes: :laughing:

It's just me being nit-picky, but I'd rewrite that to read; Customer must maintain a minimum of one hand-wash at least once a month during non raining season, followed up by once a week during snow, ice, rain, sleet or high winds and dusty conditions brought on by the Santa Anna winds, Gulf Stream winds, Canadian polar winds and/or Tropical breezes by the original dealer. Any failure to maintain this schedule would result in a fine equal to or greater than the original installation fee paid in cash due on or before the 7th of any month ending in a "Y" or "R". :D
 
I believe you are misinterpreting their statement.

Those who have purchased the lifetime warranty must have their vehicle checked annually by an authorized installer according to the requirements you had listed above.

However, it is explained that every owner must "maintain the vehicle according to the standards and techniques recommended". These "recommended standards and techniques" are not the same as the extended maintenance plan that is required for the lifetime warranty. OPT explained this to me as I am responsible to communicate proper maintenance methods to my customer. They should follow my recommendations... ie use proper hand washing, do not use bath towels to dry it, do not take the car through auto washes, do not let the dealership touch it, etc etc etc. They could also setup a maintenance washing plan with their installer if that service is provided. If it is deemed that the customer does not follow the recommended maintenance techniques, and an issue is found with the coating, the warranty may be void and the claim denied.

I would agree with you though that the contract could use some clarification and possibly be rewritten all together... clearly many people have different ideas of what the warranty actually entails.
 
Ok so here is the damage. Like I previously said, a lot of the scratches are in the directions of the wash mitt, not as much circular swirls.

DSC0565.jpg


DSC0561.jpg



The car is getting fixed tomorrow morning. Will be posting pictures up of the whole process if everything goes as planned. Stay tuned.
 
Ok so here is the damage. Like I previously said, a lot of the scratches are in the directions of the wash mitt, not as much circular swirls.

DSC0565.jpg


DSC0561.jpg



The car is getting fixed tomorrow morning. Will be posting pictures up of the whole process if everything goes as planned. Stay tuned.

HOLY CRAP!!! JEEEEESUS.... :rolleyes:
That's not a wash mitt, looks more like a brush on a pole! My Lord what a mess.

Let's hope after tomorrow it'll all be back to where it should be. And hopefully along the way you can educated the dealership on what they did wrong, and more importantly HOW TO NOT DO IT NEXT TIME. :props:
 
Or a wash mitt picked off the ground!

Think I mentioned this already but I was up at the dealer I bought my car from and saw the guy pick the wash mitt up off the ground and immediately start washing a car with it. I also saw his rotary sitting pad-down in the parking lot.
 
Zack, I think we are driving different cars on the same road. I totally understand the verbiage as it is. Not the first time I've seen it, (or had it in my own hands direct from the source for that matter).;)

Thing is; it is so open ended that it lends itself to fairly fluid interpretation. For the qualification that the warranty stay in effect to be that the buyer/owner/end user need abide to verbal instructions from the seller/detailer/dealer at the time is a bit 'hear or there' at the very least. Especially as the only written clause is for a single hand wash once a year. Yikes! :eek:

Luckily, most (albeit not ALL) buyers of the service/product that care enough up front to invest in paint protection at this level tend to take care of their vehicles at least a bit better than your normal 'Joe'. That doesn't mean however that all of them do.

For instance I have a friend/customer that is a huge collector of vintage muscle cars, all the way to brand new sports cars/muscle cars. His SINGLE want of them all is that they are "shiny". He would indeed be a buyer for OC Pro, cQuartz (finest or otherwise), and as of this week PBL Paint, Wheel, and Glass Coating(s). Although he's also wanted sealants of the WOWO and WOWA variants along the way. (Actually he doesn't know the difference between one or the other, just 'shiny'.) Doesn't matter if it's a 60's Camaro, early 70's Chevelle's or Mopar's, all the way to newer Corvettes, Vipers, and even a GT500 (and of course a F250 Super Duty). One common denominator... they are "shiny". :)

Thing is, he isn't about to do JACK to keep the surface up after the point of sale. He doesn't abuse his vehicles, and for the most part they are all garage queens, with the exception of the F250. He'll cover them up with dedicated 'factory' car covers when not driving them, but he's never buffed a car. He'll slather whatever spray bottle product he can get 'eg' Mothers Spray Wax on them from time to time. But he'll never even SEE a swirl. Doesn't know they exist! :rolleyes: He'll want a sealant over a swirled finish, period.

Given that he'll not show up for monthly or bi-monthly inspections how would you go about enforcing that clause? But you can bet he'll also expect that warranty to be fully active till the very end!

Thing is, this type of owner is everywhere. They'll buy the product for a new vehicle (although probably not have it renewed a couple of years down the road) yet have no idea how to keep up a vehicle to the insane standards that your typical AGO member does. HEY, nothing wrong with AGO members and their insane standards, Jack! (Oh wait a minute, that's Zack, not Jack. Been watching too much Duck Dynasty, JACK!) :rolleyes: :laughing: :rolleyes:

Just playing devils advocate here. But you have to admit that there are more people out there that won't take care of their paint than those that will. Even AFTER they paid someone $600 to make it all 'shiny' for them. They'll expect it to STAY that way. After all, that's what the 'stuff' was supposed to do that they paid so much for. Right?

Like I said in the beginning. I understand the contract, and have had a copy in my hands for a year now. Just scares me as an installer with it being so open ended. Sure, there are a lot of insinuated requirements, and hopefully a thorough understanding of each and every one of them is made clear at the point of sale each and every time. Yet I'd hate to know I had a guy standing there with a $120K car, that paid $600 for a coating and be the one to tell him he is SOL because he hand polished his 'baby' 3 or 4 times over the last year and swirled it up doing so. Those guys will sick a lawyer on you in a second, Jack. ;)

Bottom line; the only reason I bring it up is that I'd rather sell the NON warrantied version, and for less money, than have to eat my services come time when he wants it 'fixed' under warranty and starts nit-picking the ambiguities of it all. :dunno: (FWIW I too was told the only difference between one bottle and the other is the price, with that 'price' having a sticker and a certificate (warranty) attached to it.) Jus' sayin'...... ;)
 
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