zmcgovern45
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Lesson Learned... Still Not Over It..
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b0b
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Just called the local body shop... Taking it tomorrow to get a quote on getting bumper repainted. Not very happy at all..
Needless to say, I learned my lesson and I will NEVER EVER EVER take my car to a dealership without signs posted everywhere on my car.
This has been awful, makes me want to just sell the car and start over. All because of a car wash!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I really can't believe it. If my hood isn't fixable and it needs repainted...... It's unbelievable..
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Needless to say, I learned my lesson and I will NEVER EVER EVER take my car to a dealership without signs posted everywhere on my car.
This has been awful, makes me want to just sell the car and start over. All because of a car wash!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I really can't believe it. If my hood isn't fixable and it needs repainted...... It's unbelievable..
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zmcgovern45
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Unfortunately your troubles most likely wouldn't be over if you have to get an area repainted. Body shops are notorious for leaving dull, poorly finished paint after resprays. You will often find sanding tracers, pigtails, holograms, and an overall hazy appearance. This is best treated by a professional detailer... and obviously, those panels that are painted will need to be re-coated with OC Pro.
Sucks that you've had to go through this
b0b
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The one thing that today has taught me is that these message boards have an incredible amount of USEFUL information. I watched all day and didn't learn anything new. In fact I wanted to correct them on a few things at times like letting microfiber on floor and stuff that's unacceptable if you're a part of these forums.
If the body shop messes up the paint, I'm confident I could fix it and if not, with the help of AG I think I could. This body shop painted my old car after I hit a deer and did a pretty good job.
I watched one of your videos recently about arm speed, Zach, and ever since then my work looks so much better than ever before.
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If the body shop messes up the paint, I'm confident I could fix it and if not, with the help of AG I think I could. This body shop painted my old car after I hit a deer and did a pretty good job.
I watched one of your videos recently about arm speed, Zach, and ever since then my work looks so much better than ever before.
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zmcgovern45
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Just wish more car owners were more educated. Then dealers, detailers and body shops would be better trained and equipped. If every customer came in furious about swirls in their paint, then they'd modify their processes. They probably just seriously don't know any better!
cardaddy
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Unfortunately your troubles most likely wouldn't be over if you have to get an area repainted. Body shops are notorious for leaving dull, poorly finished paint after resprays. You will often find sanding tracers, pigtails, holograms, and an overall hazy appearance. This is best treated by a professional detailer... and obviously, those panels that are painted will need to be re-coated with OC Pro.
Sucks that you've had to go through this
:iagree:
I have a customer with a 2012 black mica Mazdaspeed wagon that I did a Level 1.5 correction on earlier this summer. Well his dad was driving a couple months ago, fell asleep and did $12K worth of damage! Took 6 weeks in the shop and TWO supplements (adjustments to the original repair estimate) before he finally got it back.
Once he did, he calls me to come look. The good part was the paint color matches. Other than that it was pretty bad. The sourced a crash part on the front bumper cover and hood, same color. But the spot corrected the hood. The side was orange peel from front to back with bad dry spray behind the gas cap. He wasn't too worried and just figured I'd fix it. I told him however that he shouldn't be paying me hundreds of bucks to do it as THEY should have done it to begin with. What's a "Lifetime Warranty" good for if you can't get them to correct it a week out.
Luckily for him I know the body shop manager (big Buick, Mazda, GM dealership) so I told the kid I'd call him to let him know what was going on and I'd go up there with him. Plus the shop manager obviously didn't see it because I know the guy, and THAT is NOT the quality he lets slide day in, day out.
After our meeting there he took it back in, got a new Buick SUV loaner for two days, and it looks really good now.
Just been waiting for it all to cure so I can go back over it and remove a few holograms then put a new "Black Label Diamond Coating" on the whole car.
rops:Yeah but 95% or more of all car owners don't WANT to be more educated. I have a buddy I went to school with in the 70's that I did a 2 stage correction for on his wife's Lexus back in March. He didn't care at all for what it took, didn't want to spend the time doing it, and moreover thought it was a TOTAL WASTE OF TIME for the two of us to spend 2 days together (on a man's weekend while she was out of town on business) making her car be what it should be.
When I approached it and asked him what the second most expensive thing he had ever bought in his life, other than his homes and his answer was "my cars" even THEN he didn't understand why ANYONE would want to spend a few hours keeping them up "like this".In their eyes, it's a drive through car wash and whatever sprays out on it. He kept telling me, "She keeps this car up. She keeps it waxed. She's REALLY picky about this car. This car is HER baby. She keeps it washed." Yet while it was relatively clean, I challenge anyone to find any wax on it.
A few months later he was looking at selling his 08 Corolla that he drove for work. Car had high miles on it, but being a non smoker it was a clean car. Swirled to heck and back, but clean none the less. So we ran the 'book' on the car and even with the miles on it, he could have easily gotten $7K for it. That is if the outside had been clean and shiny and swirl free like the inside was. I told him I'd do it for $250, remove 90% of the swirls, and put a layer of M21 2.0 on it. Furthermore I'd guarantee that he would double his money from what he spent or I'd give him half of it back.
So what did he do?
He sold the car for SIX thousand, easily losing $1000 or more (well $750+ after the detailing cost) because he - didn't - care what it looked like and "wanted to get rid of it quickly".
Gets to looking too bad. Trade it in!
It's that mentality that drives the marketplace.
zmcgovern45
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b0b
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The whole car??
What's the deal? Did they do test spots? What products did they use for compounding and polishing previously? Didn't you say they had already sprayed OC Pro on the car?
Man, these guys' reputation is going down, down, down!
They used D300 with a meg's microfiber pad. Also, they used optimum primer? Searched for it but couldn't find anything of that nature. They simply didn't use a finishing polish is my opinion..
No test spots and they didn't check work using lights...
This time I asked him if I could do work with him, and only him. We used Menzerna 4500 with my red hybrid pads and went to town. The whole car looks so much better. The first test spot I did with it looked like we had a tape line 50/50,that's how big of a difference it made...
He then asked me if I wanted to just wax it instead.... Lol no I paid for opticoat so I left the car and he's coating it now. Picking it up tomorrow morning. I'm really happy with how it looks, it's just a poor reflection of that place Bc I had to work on it to help fix it. Afterwards I went around the whole car with my light and showed him all the spots that we're missed and did an entire iso wipedown this time.
The guy is a really nice dude and was more than willing to help me get my car the way I wanted. My one concern is that he'll just throw on some wax instead of eating the opticoat price. Anybody have any tips to ensure that the car was indeed re-opticoated? Unfortunately I couldn't wait there all day like I did yesterday. I just polished, made sure it was all removed (lights and sun) , and left.
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zmcgovern45
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OPT primer is a new product that is being used to prep the surface before OC Pro - no IPA required before coating if using primer apparently... I have no experience with it, but I have heard about it from other installers. I do not know if it has much or any cut to it.
No test spots? Sounds like a rookie mistake! Jumping straight to D300 on MF cutting pads on soft lexus paint is a bit extreme... especially since your paint was apparently very thin given the issues they had with spot sanding. Proper finish polishing is KEY when using any sort of compound on soft paint, they should be VERY well aware of this if they are working on such nice cars as what is shown on their website. I would even bet that OPT would be interested to hear about this very poor experience from one of their authorized installers. The surface clearly was not properly prepared, and if you are receiving a warranty with your OC Pro, this (imo) would be grounds for a claim to have the car repolished and recoated (as you are doing now).
If they were inspecting their work with a brinkmann, or similar, they would have easily noticed the haze remaining from compounding.
I understand that this guy is a nice guy, and it is awesome that he is helping you out, but if one of my customers came in and insisted that he had to show me how to do my job (and did a better job than me!) I would be thoroughly embarrassed.
Do a thorough citrus wash and IPA wipedown on the car after the coating has cured for a month. If you notice the coating has been compromised, then it either wasn't ever applied, or was not applied correctly.
I would express all of these concerns to the business owner, and in fact point out that you should not be required to pay the full amount due to the poor workmanship that you had to point out and then you had to help correct!
Again, I would be embarrassed if I was that guy. It's seriously unfortunate the bad luck you have had with this process.
tdekany
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Just wow! So sorry that you had to go through all of this BS. TSS was a regular on Autopia for a long time. What you have described, is not how he should be running his business. I would have stopped him as soon as I saw the first red flag. I don't even know what to think about you not trusting him with OC. Do you think he would do that? Put a wax on instead?
Couple of things: The primer is an Optimum product called Hyper Polish slightly modified. It has cut.
If TSS used a wax or sealant on your finish, the paint will feel very slick. Optimum is not slick. Not grabby, but nothing like most waxes/sealants. That way you can tell. Good luck!!!!!!
Customers (of any kind) should always remember, that: good work is never cheap, and cheap labor is very rarely good enough.
Couple of things: The primer is an Optimum product called Hyper Polish slightly modified. It has cut.
If TSS used a wax or sealant on your finish, the paint will feel very slick. Optimum is not slick. Not grabby, but nothing like most waxes/sealants. That way you can tell. Good luck!!!!!!
Customers (of any kind) should always remember, that: good work is never cheap, and cheap labor is very rarely good enough.
b0b
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Thanks, it has sucked quite a bit..
He is knowledgeable about detailing don't get me wrong. I think he just understands that most people won't notice the difference between a 3 hour detail and a 10 hour detail... From a business standpoint, I'm sure I'm one of the first customers to have issues with him..
I wish that his employee had the same knowledge and skills as he did. I don't think he would do that (swap for wax) I'm just nervous he doesn't have it in stock or something because he said he had to order mine previously.. And he asked me to go with wax without changing price. We agreed to do OC again and I'm trusting that he does it.
I paid $600 which isn't too bad, but I definitely expected better work initially. Like I said, he handled everything to my liking thus far so I can't complain too too much. I'm just happy the car is looking the way it was before.
Are there better shops out there? Sure. But I'm sure there are much much worse too.
zmcgovern45
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^This mentality is similar to your average body shop or dealership that still utilizes old rotary machines and wool pads for everything, is it not? Someone pays for a true detail, but all they get is a compounding because chances are they won't notice the haze left behind. While it may be the case, it's just not ethical to me. If he's going to do a one-step, he should be able to pick a product and pad combo that finishes down appropriately.
b0b
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Also he said the problem was with the primer. He said opti coat says you do not need to use iso after using that and they simply didn't get all the product off, then opticoated over it. Either way it's looking much better now which is more than I could say this whole month..
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tdekany
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100% agree, but I am a bit shocked, based on his previous posts on Autopia. I thought he was a true Autopian. I guess not.
I automatically assume, that if you spend time on these dedicated forums, you at least follow good habits.
b0b
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It was the 2.0 not to the Pro.
There are too few detailers that have the standards that most of us at AG have. People get caught up in doing acceptable work fast instead of taking your time and doing great work. Most times it boils down to the dollar...
And like Zach said, it really is unethical because inside you know what you are doing is not in the best interest of the customer. Sure, most people dont know the difference but you are the professional, the one who is supposed to educate the customer and not just accept the fact that you can do work better than the person who owns the car and settle at that.
There are too few detailers that have the standards that most of us at AG have. People get caught up in doing acceptable work fast instead of taking your time and doing great work. Most times it boils down to the dollar...
And like Zach said, it really is unethical because inside you know what you are doing is not in the best interest of the customer. Sure, most people dont know the difference but you are the professional, the one who is supposed to educate the customer and not just accept the fact that you can do work better than the person who owns the car and settle at that.