How Much Does Wax "Really" Do For Perfect Paint?

(Possibly?) My Final Thought On Automotive-Waxes:

Waxes are like butterflies---who are beautiful
and flutter for a day...and think it's forever.

Bob
 
swanicyouth said:
I would like to see an example of what happens to paint that is waxed or sealed that is not "cured".

Please someone post a picture of the dreadful effects of not waiting to wax your paint. Just one example. Please.
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Certainly. Crow's feet is just one of the lovely experiences that you can end up with.

crowsfeet.jpg
 
Junkman2008 said:
Certainly. Crow's feet is just one of the lovely experiences that you can end up with.

crowsfeet.jpg
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I've seen crows feet before. But, I'm not convinced they are caused by anything else than a shoddy factory paint job and a few years of UV exposure.

It seems crow's feet seem to be more vehicle/manufacturer specific than linked to someone waxing fresh paint...
 
swanicyouth said:
... It seems crow's feet seem to be more vehicle/manufacturer specific than linked to someone waxing fresh paint...
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Fresh paint has to off-gas. All of the chemicals that are added to the paint in order to make it "sprayable" DO NOT remain in the paint. They evaporate. THUS, if you attempt to seal them in, they are going to blister the paint when trying to escape. You CANNOT stop this process. It is going to happen. Why do you think that you are told NOT to seal paint before it cures? Do you think that this is some old wives tale? :confused:
 
Junkman2008 said:
Fresh paint has to off-gas. All of the chemicals that are added to the paint in order to make it "sprayable" DO NOT remain in the paint. They evaporate. THUS, if you attempt to seal them in, they are going to blister the paint when trying to escape. You CANNOT stop this process. It is going to happen. Why do you think that you are told NOT to seal paint before it cures? Do you think that this is some old wives tale? :confused:
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Dunno. Looking for someone's paint that failed or went bad after they waxed a repainted panel. I've done it on my Nissan several times - paint is fine.
 
swanicyouth said:
Dunno. Looking for someone's paint that failed or went bad after they waxed a repainted panel. I've done it on my Nissan several times - paint is fine.
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Today's paints don't need 90 days to cure. That was true with the old lacquer paints that my father taught me to use. That's why I said that my paint cured in a week. The products that I used stated that on the information sheet that came with the clear coat. There are some paint combinations that can cure in hours, however, YOU have to know how long your combination of ingredients will need to cure. So just because you didn't experience any issues when waxing your fresh paint job doesn't mean that EVERYONE else will not. You obviously waxed your paint AFTER the curing time, whatever that was. It depends on the ingredients that the painter used when it comes to the cure time.
 
Lol why does everbody love arguing with the junkman

Sent from my SPH-L710 using AG Online
 
Junkman2008 said:
Other than the sealants, what isn't? And it's not that they are not body shop safe, it's that you don't seal paint that hasn't cured. Other than that, they can be used in a body shop environment.
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This is a list of products Michael Stoops put on MOL regarding which Meguiars products are "Body Shop Safe", or as he put it "Paintable".

Body Shop Safe or Not?

The M-line has a rubber/vinyl cleaner/conditioner, as well as a synthetic detailer that are not "Body Shop Safe".

Yes, you can use whatever you want in a body shop. The label is given to advise there are ingredients in the product that can/will cause adhesion problems if on a panel that is to be painted.
 
swanicyouth said:
I would like to see an example of what happens to paint that is waxed or sealed that is not "cured".

Please someone post a picture of the dreadful effects of not waiting to wax your paint. Just one example. Please.
Click to expand...

I tried to find a pic and couldn't, but it is advised against as it can cause the finish to cloud up, and poor adhesion.
 
Hello Junkman and everyone else. Just spent over an hour reading all posts on this thread and really enjoyed it.

Junkman, I watch all of your videos and they have been a real pleasure for me. My father always told his customers to wait on waxing because, until the paint cures, there is a chance that the ingredients in the wax may cut the beautiful new shine before the paint cures. This is especially true with petroleum based products. In other words, dull the natural shine of the paint before it hardens. Some waxes act as a solvent on freshly painted surfaces. This is a pretty simple concept.

There is no question that anyone who has done this for as many years as we have know that any wax, no matter what the cost, will make a vehicle look better in the end, make washing easier, allow dirt and contaminants to slide off easier, and protect the paint from bird droppings, tree sap etc.

I am personally hooked on a lot of the high end products on the market these days. For many years we just did not have that many products to choose from. As a car waxing NUT I am in hog heaven with all of the new advancements in polishing and top coat technologies that are being released, it seems like almost every week or so something new comes out for us to try.

Thanks for the great discussion.
 
I was just wondering if there is an actual person out there who waxed/sealed paint while it was fresh and then had the panel fail prematurely.

I know the theory behind why it's not ADVISED to wax fresh paint... I was hoping to hear some anecdotal evidence of this actually taking place.
 
Go to an automotive painter's forum. You'll probably find a few instances that you can inquire about.
 
swanicyouth said:
I was just wondering if there is an actual person out there who waxed/sealed paint while it was fresh and then had the panel fail prematurely.

I know the theory behind why it's not ADVISED to wax fresh paint... I was hoping to hear some anecdotal evidence of this actually taking place.
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I've been answering questions on this topic for about 20+ years now and I've never seen a fresh paint job go bad because it was sealed to soon.

I have numerous articles on this topic to try to clear up the confusion and even state the above in the articles.

Here's my oldest article on this topic trying to clear up the confusion, it's on MOL and dates back to 2005

Paint Needs to Breathe


At the same time I share what the actual paint companies state or recommend for the paints they make and to date, I don't know of any paint company that recommends anyone to seal their paint before at least 30 days air cure.

Seems there's always people on forums, not the actual paint rep telling people to go against the paint companies recommendations? What's funny is it's always some guy telling some other guy to seal his paint before 30 days. :laughing:

With modern clearcoats, because they are chemically cured, I think it's not a huge issue and I've never personally seed a paint job fail because it was sealed too soon.

I also think that a least a part of the reason paint manufactures continue to this day to recommend a waiting period is for a type of insurance for them and the people spraying their brand of paint to pro-actively prevent any possible problems caused by the lowest common denominator in society.


I also asked a very highly respected chemist about this topic and here's what he told me,

If you pick up your car from a body shop after it's been painted and drive it home and park it in your garage and close the garage door. Then come back a couple of hours later he said chances are very good you're going to smell the odor of fresh paint.

That odor is the outgassing of solvents used to thin the paint. The molecules are in the air and that's what you're smelling.

His point to me in our conversation about this topic was that while some people think that because modern clearcoats are not like old solvent-evaporation paints like single stage lacquers and enamels, they are still outgassing some types of solvents and other additives used in paints via capillary action and evaporation. He also said it's better to not hinder this outgassing process by sealing the surface too soon.


Now each one of us, upon getting a new paint job can seal the paint before 30 days, or fill in the blank, and it probably won't hurt anything but I always ask the question...

What's the hurry?


And by this I mean, the idea of sealing paint in this context is to protect it from attack but anything that lands on fresh paint that could in fact attack it, like a bird dropping, is also strong enough to eat through a coat of wax or a synthetic paint sealant, so IF something were to attack the paint the chances are the damage will take place whether you seal the surface or not.


So what's the hurry? :dunno:




This is like the topic of bonding, LOL it will never go away... and that's okay...

I do find it interesting though that I always find guys, posting under assumed nicknames, telling other guys that actually own the car that has been freshly painted that it's safe to wax their brand new paint job.

:laughing:



Me? If I get a brand new paint job that's because I've been working on something cool for a while and it's finally come to the point where the mechanicals are finished and it's time for the paint job. This would mean a lot of time, money, expense and energy has been invested over a course of months and possibly years.

For all my money, time and energy... I'm going to go ahead and wait... I might not wait for exactly 30 - 24 hour days to pass by but I'm going to let the paint set-up, fully dry and harden and fully outgas before I seal the surface.


:)
 
Good post on clearing it up Mike.

I agree, it's a situation where what's the worst that could happen for each situation. The off chance something does go wrong with curing, or the paint is subjected to no wax for 30 days. And we've all seen and know cars that go years without waxing and such.
 
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