Jeweling Wax - Definition

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Too me An AIO polish is polish with sealant/wax.
Cleaner wax is wax with cleaners , non abrasives

A few years ago a forum member that was banned of AGO tried to make the case that AIO's were NON-abrasive and cleaner/waxes contained abrasives and his claim was that it was this difference that separated AIO's from cleaner/waxes.

I then posted examples of AIO's that had abrasives and AIO's that didn't have abrasives and cleaner/waxes that had abrasives and cleaner/waxes that didn't have abrasives.

The point is there is NO difference they are just different words for the same category of products. That is products that will do three things,

1. Clean
2. Polish
3. Protect

In one step.

Both can have glaze .

The word glaze is now days... a catch-all-term. Companies use it to describe one-step cleaner/waxes and synthetic sealants and also polishes.

Two examples of TRUE glazes in the historical sense of the word are,

3M Imperial Hand Glaze
Meguiar's #7 Show Car Glaze

Jeweling wax just combined a cleaner wax with an AIO polish..

I'm going to stick with this definition from the first post of this thread,

Jeweling Wax

Definition: An ultra fine cutting polish and wax combination that when used with a soft foam finishing or jewelling foam pad will maximize paint gloss, shine, depth and clarity while leaving behind a layer of protection.​

I started a thread about jeweling with a DA months back...just assumed any polish on the chart rated with a 1 could be considered for jeweling.. Yet none were actually "jeweling waxes"

There are jeweling polishes and to me this would be two things,

1: An ultra fine cut polish.
2: An ultra fine cut polish that uses top notch abrasive technology.

Just because a polish exists with the word ultra fine cut doesn't mean it actually is on the same level of quality and performance as all quality ultra fine cut polishes.

To bring up a question that really wasn't answered in said thread

What would be the best for jeweling with this new product?
Something like car pros gloss pad?

Or non abrasive wax pad?

Because like most compounds, polishes and cleaner/waxes you can simply vary the level of cut or NON cut by the aggressiveness or NON aggressiveness of the pad used the same applies to a jeweling wax.

If you're using it as a stand-alone product for production detailing, that is you're not doing any other compounding or polishing steps BEFORE using a jeweling wax as I share in the first post then you could use a foam polishing pad.

Perfect product for high quality production detailing[/B]
Production detailing usually has a negative connotation associated with it and sad to say all to often when a car is machine buffed using a one-step product by machine the results are either hologram scratches, buffer trails or micro-marring that leaves the clearcoat hazy looking.

The culprit for mediocre results when doing a one-step process to the paint by machine using a one-step product is either the product, the pad or the tool and in some cases all three factors.

With a true jeweling wax you can restore a shiny finish using only a foam polishing or finishing pad with just about any machine polisher for customer pleasing results. A true jeweling wax will remove the risk of mediocre results which are common in the production detailing world while providing technicians with a simple and easy to use product. The key to doing high quality production detailing always starts with setting the expectation of your customers and that's means educating them with a minimal understanding of the paint on their cars and the paint restoration process.

If you're using it as your LAST machine polishing step to perfect the paint after a dedicated compounding and polishing step or after say only a dedicated polishing step (with something like a medium cut polish), then you could use it with a foam finishing pad or a foam jeweling pad.

 

[David Fermani]

Looks like we'll need to add this new term to the description of HD Speed!

*AIO
*Cleaner Wax
*Gloss Enhancer
*Hybrid Sealant Wax
*Glaze
*Final Polish
*Jeweling Wax

For the last several months I've actually been using HD Speed post correction & polishing with a final finishing or waxing foam pad via a rotary buffer with exceptional results. This by all means is my end all, be all of final finishes on end high paint correction treatments. It adds extra gloss and uniformity to the finish and really makes a difference. And to reiterate one more time....this really needs to be performed with a rotary buffer.

 

[Pats300zx]

Looks like we'll need to add this new term to the description of HD Speed!

*AIO
*Cleaner Wax
*Gloss Enhancer
*Hybrid Sealant Wax
*Glaze
*Final Polish
*Jeweling Wax

For the last several months I've actually been using HD Speed post correction & polishing with a final finishing or waxing foam pad via a rotary buffer with exceptional results. This by all means is my end all, be all of final finishes on end high paint correction treatments. It adds extra gloss and uniformity to the finish and really makes a difference. And to reiterate one more time....this really needs to be performed with a rotary buffer.

David.

With what pads and speeds are using using HD Speed with a rotary???

 

[David Fermani]

Speed 2 on my Makita with either a black or red B&S foam pad.

 

[7.3powerstroke]

David.

With what pads and speeds are using using HD Speed with a rotary???

I want to know this also but did not want to get off topic. Maybe David has to do another thread about it. Everyone here loves SPEED, so im sure many would like to know about the process.

Edit: looks like David beat me to it :xyxthumbs:

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Looks like we'll need to add this new term to the description of HD Speed!

*AIO
*Cleaner Wax
*Gloss Enhancer
*Hybrid Sealant Wax
*Glaze
*Final Polish
*Jeweling Wax

Hey David, glad to hear you like the idea. I think it's just part of the evolution of car care products.

For the last several months I've actually been using HD Speed post correction & polishing with a final finishing or waxing foam pad via a rotary buffer with exceptional results.

This by all means is my end all, be all of final finishes on end high paint correction treatments.

At a minimum, following a compound and polishing, or just compounding or just polishing with a jeweling wax is at a minimum a time saver and if the product truly works then a great finishing step.

It adds extra gloss and uniformity to the finish and really makes a difference.

I made the word uniformity bold because this is important. I've met guys that say they get great results by ending with only a polish. I've met guys that say they don't believe in wax or sealants (or coatings) and that they get the best shine with just finishing with a quality polish.

While I agree you can get stellar results by finishing only with a high quality polish, hell I've done all my life, but the fact is the application of a a wax or sealant creates a more uniform looking appearance and just as important... the application of a wax or sealant creates a uniform appearance that hold up longer over time than just finishing with a polish.

Most pro-grade fine cut and ultra fine cut polishes are body shop safe and this means they tend to be water soluble and don't include protection ingredients. Thus finishing with only a polish means the appearance results you see immediately after wiping off the polish won't hold up as long as a the results created by the application of a wax or sealant when both surface are exposed to repeated exposure to liquids like quick detailers, rain or car washes.

That's what I've seen in my life. So "yeah" finishing a polishing process with some form of LSP in my book is better than stopping after the polishing step for reasons of uniformity and longevity.

And to reiterate one more time....this really needs to be performed with a rotary buffer.

This is where I respectfully disagree. I'm more of a big tent guy in that there are thousands of guys that don't own rotary buffers but do own quality orbital polishers and I fully believe a person can use a jeweling wax to jewel the paint to a high degree using an orbital polisher.

In fact... we just did that with this car...


McKee's 37 = Winner BEST PAINT!


The McKee's 37 was applied using both the Flex 3401 and the simple but tried and true Porter Cable 7424XP and the results spoke for themselves.

Plus, because a wax or a sealant fills in, coats over and leaves itself behind, it is this characteristic that becomes the equalizer appearance wise between tools and results for this last machine step.


But for those with a rotary buffer and specifically rotary buffers that dial down to 600 RPM then definitely get a soft foam pad or even ultra soft foam pads and give a jeweling wax a try using your RB.

 

[David Fermani]

I totally appreciate & understand your view difference with this Mike. :xyxthumbs: In fact I also noticed how you wrote that you used the Flex 3401 & PC to obtain these final finishing results on that project. Is it me, or do you also feel that a shorter throw machine will achieve a bit greater final results than a longer throw DA with regards to this jeweling wax stage? I totally get that many times they are superior for the initial cutting stage and leaves a pretty nice level of gloss after, but I usually see better results when finishing with my short throw DA after the initial leveling step has been completed. Perhaps the tighter pattern it makes adds that little bit extra amount of gloss that a longer throw lacks at times. Or maybe its better to say they leave less surface marring behind!

Anyways, I've been resorting back to my rotary more and more these days when I have the extra time to experiment with things. In fact, I almost forgot how much fun slapping on a 5 inch foam pad and going in circles was! There's been many times recently that I've compared the results against a DA and was pleasantly surprised how much more clarity and warmth could be achieved with a rotary with the right pad/polish combo. Despite what many people fail to understand, I feel that paint is at it's optimal clarity before a human or a machine ever touches it. And after that it's a race to leave the least amount of marring/hazing behind.

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Who cares? It's a product that's supposed to bring out a lot of gloss. Try it and see if you like it.

 

[7.3powerstroke]

David, are you cutting with the rotary a lot or just finishing with it? And do you top SPEED when you are done jeweling or leave it by itself?

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I totally appreciate & understand your view difference with this Mike. :xyxthumbs: In fact I also noticed how you wrote that you used the Flex 3401 & PC to obtain these final finishing results on that project.

Is it me, or do you also feel that a shorter throw machine will achieve a bit greater final results than a longer throw DA with regards to this jeweling wax stage?

I totally get that many times they are superior for the initial cutting stage and leaves a pretty nice level of gloss after, but I usually see better results when finishing with my short throw DA after the initial leveling step has been completed.

Perhaps the tighter pattern it makes adds that little bit extra amount of gloss that a longer throw lacks at times. Or maybe its better to say they leave less surface marring behind!

Actually, I've experienced jaw dropping amazing results finishing out with the RUPES BigFoot 21 on both single stage paint, basecoat/clearcoat paints and gel-coat finishes on boats.

As long as you're using great abrasive technology, which I believe is the most important factor when it comes to polishing anything, then as long as you use the right pad for the process and good technique you can get show car results with any quality tool.

From my experience thus far, 3D uses great abrasive technology.

Anyways, I've been resorting back to my rotary more and more these days when I have the extra time to experiment with things.

I like rotary for fast correction and don't mind finishing with one but for peace of mind and perhaps because I'm lazy I'll normally finish out with any dual action polisher and be done with it.

In fact, I almost forgot how much fun slapping on a 5 inch foam pad and going in circles was! There's been many times recently that I've compared the results against a DA and was pleasantly surprised how much more clarity and warmth could be achieved with a rotary with the right pad/polish combo.

One thing for sure... buffing with a rotary buffer and a small foam pad like the Lake Country Gold Jeweling Pad is EASY. It's completely opposite of cutting hard with wool.


Easy buffing...

Tips on how to jewel paint using a rotary buffer


Less than the weight of the machine
This is showing that we're actually using a little bit less than the weight of the machine for the last few passes for this section. The idea being that polishing paint is an art form, not a grinding process. As the pad becomes wet with product it will easily compress with just the weight of the tool. For your last few passes you want light pressure via the pad contact, now heavy pressure and to get light contact you need to watch and prevent pad compression.

This is cutting hard and when cutting hard you involve a lot more muscles to control the rotary....

1965 Mustang GT Fastback - Wetsanding - Live Broadcast

Despite what many people fail to understand, I feel that paint is at it's optimal clarity before a human or a machine ever touches it.

If you get a perfect paint job either from the factory or a custom painter but what I've seen and experienced is even the best factory finish and even the best custom paint job always looks better after it's professionally buffed and in the case of a custom paint job after it's been sanded and buffed.

The reason why is simply because by the time a person takes possession of any car, new car from dealership or their own car after their own car after a custom paint job, the paint will have something on it or something in it that a perfect polishing step will correct.

Dealerships don't know what they are doing when it comes to paint and body shops don't send cars out with wax on them, only body shop safe polish, so there's always room for improvement.

For my next 3-day class I have a 1937 Chevy Coupe with a brand new custom dark brandywine basecoat/clearcoat paint job and while it looks pretty good after the body shop did their part it has swirls... and no wax... so we're going to perfect it for the owner. (waiting on pictures as I type).

And after that it's a race to leave the least amount of marring/hazing behind.

I agree with this. Polishing paint is about doing everything right for the best results and reducing any and all factors that could leave defects like marring. And to me this is one of the reasons I always say it is the abrasive technology that is the most important aspect of any paint polishing process. Not technique, not the tool and not the pad.

 

[silverfox]

Mike. What pad and setting did you use with the PC when applying the jeweling wax? Great discussion!

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Mike. What pad and setting did you use with the PC when applying the jeweling wax? Great discussion!

For the 1940 Ford Coupe the guys started out at the 6 setting for the first few passes and then reduced down to the 4-5 setting. Fast speed to start out cutting and slower setting to finish because,

Polishing paint is an art form not a grinding process

(you can quote me on that)


With the Flex 3401 we used the 2-4 speed setting since it's forced oscillation and forced rotation.


Here's the dealio though...

After compounding with the McKee's Fast Compound the paint looked perfect.

After polishing with the McKee's Fast Polish the paint looked more perfect.

By the time we machine applied the McKee's Jeweling Wax all we had to do was make a few passes to ensure a perfectly flat, smooth clear surface.

The compound and the polish use great abrasive technology as does the jeweling wax thus each step continually moves the results forward in the process - never backwards.


I practice in my life and teach in my classes to always work forward in the process, never backwards.

 

[Larry A]

Mike, can you please give us a list of jeweling waxes , or is Mcgee the only one.

 

[craigdt]

Mike, can you please give us a list of jeweling waxes , or is Mcgee the only one.

I think he will say McKee's is the only one, simply because it's the only one that uses those words in the name.

Now is it the only one that performs the unique task that it claims?
That's for us to argue about:xyxthumbs:

 

[Joe@NextLevelDetail]

I think he will say McKee's is the only one, simply because it's the only one that uses those words in the name.

Now is it the only one that performs the unique task that it claims?
That's for us to argue about:xyxthumbs:

What is jeweling ?

Jeweling is supposed to be a ultra fine mild abrasive to be used with a ultra soft pad, meant for wax,glaze or sealant.

Like menzerna 3800 (formerly known as sf4500)

If you think about the all in one's on the market.

HD Speed
Menzerna 3 in 1
Meguiars paint recon cream
Griots garage finishing sealant

Those can all take out 3,000 grit sanding marks. With the right pad.

HD Speed is HD polish with 25 percent HD poxy.

Menzerna 3 in 1 is pf2500 with wax protection.

Finishing sealant is perfecting cream with wax protection.

Those arent really "jeweling" polishes, can you jewel with them AND Get Good results sure.

but the point of jeweling is to squeeze the most shine as possible, so wouldn't it make sense to use a finer polish then the one you used in the second step ?

(In example) use menzerna sf3500 with a white pad, then menzerna 3800 with a Blue pad

My point is , McKee's 37 line gets finer and finer in abrasive technology.

Fast compound (most abrasive)
Fast polish (medium abrasive)
Jeweling wax (ultra fine abrasive)

So if this makes sense, your telling Me that Bob McKee designed jeweling wax to be the same as fast polish with wax protection behind ???????

Jeweling wax was made for the McKee's "system" it can be used as a all in one, however it was meant to compliment the whole line.

Fast polish , and jeweling wax do not carry the same abrasive.

Jeweling wax has a ultra fine abrasive, with a wax protection.

Menzerna 3 in 1, HD speed, and the others are more abrasive then jeweling wax.


IT IS THE THIRD STEP IN THIS SYSTEM.

not the second Bob McKee wouldn't make 2 products that are the same!

Fast polish, is on par with, HD polish, sf3500, griots perfecting creams, etc

The results speak for them selfs. And I only support quality products

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/showthread.php?t=99381

 

[Zubair]

AutoGlym Super Resin Polish(SRP) is an AIO, has been classified for decades as one. However the fact that it contains super fine abrasives to polish and clean and leaves protection behind in one go, it can now be classified as a "Jeweling Wax". Meguiars A1216 to an extent is a Jeweling wax too.

All this fuss over AIO's....A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet.

 

[silverfox]

Id argue that a jeweling Polish or wax or whatever used as an "effective" AIO is a stretch. Maybe it's great as a third step or second step, but I want to see it used as the ONLY product used and then pass judgement. So far I've only read threads where it's used as a second or third step after the paint is already near perfect. If there are threads where it's tested as an AIO only, post the links.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Id argue that a jeweling Polish or wax or whatever used as an "effective" AIO is a stretch.

Maybe it's great as a third step or second step, but I want to see it used as the ONLY product used and then pass judgement.

I think you're missing the point of the term jewelling. :dunno:


There are already cleaner/waxes on the market that offer aggressive cleaning or aggressive abrading or aggressive correction, (pick the term you like best).

Because they are strong on the abrading side it makes them in-effective or less effective at the jewelling side. They are too far extreme on the scale between lots of cut and zero cut.


In other words...

It's NOT supposed to offer great correction ability. There are already products that do that.




Everything is actually explained in detail in the first post on the first page.



First page and first post

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Mike, can you please give us a list of jeweling waxes , or is McKee's 37 the only one.

I haven't taken the time to give this much thought....

From memory, most LIGHT to VERY LIGHT cleaner/waxes that I've used don't buff like the McKee's 37. They are two focused on correction not polishing.

From memory I'd say the 3D Speed might fall into this category. From memory it has a long buffing cycle and does a great job of maximizing gloss and clarity of the paint.

I'd like to re-visit CarPro Essence, it might fall into this category.


One of the reasons I think there needed to be this new category is because most cleaner/waxes are best at cleaning or abrading neglected paint. And that's great as that's what we want out of them.

The McKee's 37 product excels at polishing and perfecting, not cleaning or abrading, so it works different than most cleaner/waxes that's why I didn't think it was fair to lump it together with all the cleaner/waxes on the market.

Remember MOST the waxes and sealants you'll find at the retail level of any auto parts store are cleaner/waxes and I think I do a really good job of explaining why in this article,



The Difference Between a Cleaner/Wax and a Finishing Wax
Subtitle: How To Choose The Right Wax or Paint Sealant for your Detailing Project

When you go to your local auto parts stores, most of the retail waxes on the shelves do in fact fall into the cleaner/wax category as they are targeted at the average person.

The average person is driving what we call a Daily Driver, that is the car they drive back and forth to work each day and most of the time it’s parked outside.

Over time, the finish quality deteriorates and in order to restore it with just a single product you’ll want a cleaner/wax.

As I get time I'll post my "opinion" as to which products I think would fall into the category of a jeweling wax for whatever that' worth.

 

[RPM_BR]

I wonder if a wax needs abrasives to be considered a jewelling wax.

Or else, without the small amount of fine abrasives, would be a LSP?