Flex 3401 vs. Rupes Mille/Makita P5000C, for those that are wondering.

Hi everyone. No one is mentioning the Festool Rotex 125 and 150 (and actually the 90). It's dual mode like the Makita.
Apparently the older Makita BO6040 was a design bought from Festool...

I have been using the Festool Rotex 150 since 2009 as my primary machines (I have two so as I have an assistant) .

Forced rotation mode is superb (5mm stroke). DA mode the pad "doesn't rotate" (excuse me if my phrasing isn't correct) on curves so either you have to lighten pressure or up the power. Comparing to the Meguiars DA I had at the time I think that was better...

Prior to this I had a rotary and DA combo, If you go forced rotation you will forget about the others. Near Rotary correction without the risk and holograms

Last thing, The DA mode for sanding is good. I had a Rupes electric palm sander and a 3m pneumatic and the Festool did way better for me.

You do get over the fact it feels like you polishing with a clothing iron...
 
MrQ said:
Hi everyone. No one is mentioning the Festool Rotex 125 and 150 (and actually the 90). It's dual mode like the Makita.
Apparently the older Makita BO6040 was a design bought from Festool...

I have been using the Festool Rotex 150 since 2009 as my primary machines (I have two so as I have an assistant) .

Forced rotation mode is superb (5mm stroke). DA mode the pad "doesn't rotate" (excuse me if my phrasing isn't correct) on curves so either you have to lighten pressure or up the power. Comparing to the Meguiars DA I had at the time I think that was better...

Prior to this I had a rotary and DA combo, If you go forced rotation you will forget about the others. Near Rotary correction without the risk and holograms

Last thing, The DA mode for sanding is good. I had a Rupes electric palm sander and a 3m pneumatic and the Festool did way better for me.

You do get over the fact it feels like you polishing with a clothing iron...
Click to expand...


First post...


Welcome to AutogeekOnline! :welcome:


Kind of the reason no one is mentioning the Festool Rotex is because it's not sold on the AG store, kind of goes with the forum rules... but yeah... Festool Rotex 125 and 150



:)
 
ScottH said:
Guys I spoke to a really nice guy at Makita USA (Georgia I believe) named Tony. I described the lackluster rotation we are seeing in free spin mode. I also encouraged him and the Product Developer to take one out of the box and replicate what we are seeing.

Scott
Click to expand...


Did you give him the link to this thread to see the lively and active discussion?

I wonder if he is one of the guys that brought us the prototype?


From this thread,

Review: Makita PO5000C Orbital Polisher - Gear-driven and Free Spinning - Mike Phillips


Here's some history behind the development of this new Makita orbital polish....

Back in the spring of 2014, Autogeek was contacted by Makita and we were asked if we could put together of team of experienced detailers to test out a prototype of this tool. We were told there would be 2 Makita Enineers from Japan plus an Interrupter to translate English to Japanese plus two staff from Makita, so a 5-person team in all from Makita.

Because I would need a LARGE vehicle in HORRIBLE condition to create the perfect testing vehicle for the team of detailers to put this prototype through some rigours testing, just by chance my good buddy Mike Gelter had a 1940 Ford Panel Delivery Streetrod for sale and in dire need of an extreme show car makeover.

This turned out to be the perfect testing vehicle as it was,


  1. Large
  2. All swirled out
  3. Cool



All of the guys had to sign disclosure stating they would keep the tool, the test and all related information top secret. While I have pictures of the prototype being tested by all the guys, I could not include them in the original write-up so all you'll see in the original write-up is the before and after pictures of the 1940 Ford Panel Delivery Streetrod.

Here's the link to that write up dated September of 2014


Pictures: 1940 Ford Panel Delivery - Secret Project

To keep the identity of the Makita staff, the interpreter and the Engineers secret, I took the below photos and replaced their faces with the face of Ivan, our company cartoon logo...

Here's the original....

Makita_Team_01.jpg




Here's a cropped out section of the team from Makita....

Makita_Team_02.jpg





And because I save all the pictures from our projects here at Autogeek, here's the original....

Makita_Team_03.jpg




And here's the team from Makita!
(not including the guy in the blue shirt in the background)

Makita_Team_04.jpg





:dunno:
 
Mike Phillips said:
Did you give him the link to this thread to see the lively and active discussion?
Click to expand...

Mike - yes in fact I email Tony this thread to give him more insights.

I also plan to make a brief video today just to show him what we are speaking of. Hoping something can be done about this otherwise it would be hard to consider this a "dual purpose" polisher if it has to be run "balls-to-the-walls" on speed 5 just to get some rotation in free spin mode.

Let's see...
ScottH
 
nothingface5384 said:
couldnt get to the scion XB wo where it jiggled on speed 5,, but rotated well on 3 and 4.. with 5.5 thinpro pad
heres a couple tests on kia forte with a 6.5 low pro on speed 5 and then speed 3

https://www.facebook.com/michael.robibaro/videos/321133131652865/


https://www.facebook.com/michael.robibaro/videos/321134501652728/
Click to expand...

Thanks for doing the video - I will do similar tonight and post the results. The pad rotation seems extremely slow on all speeds - that is what has me concerned. Correction (or even final polishing) at these speeds in free spin mode will take forever.

ScottH
 
ScottH said:
Thanks for doing the video - I will do similar tonight and post the results. The pad rotation seems extremely slow on all speeds - that is what has me concerned. Correction (or even final polishing) at these speeds in free spin mode will take forever.

ScottH
Click to expand...

I'll do some more most likely tommorow with the correct size pads(5.5) on the XB... my buddy isnt home and I only have 6.5 pads right now


heres forced rotation results
https://www.facebook.com/michael.robibaro/videos/321160448316800/
 
Dear Forum Members,

Here is a video of the Makita 5000C in free spin mode with a LC CCS pad on it. You will notice:

(1) with no load/pressure other than the polisher's own weight, speeds 1 and 2 have very slow rotation.
(2) in speed 3, the pads seems to orbit and not rotate
(3) in speed 4, the pad rotates but not nearly as fast as I would have expected and would make correction a time consuming process.
(4) in speed 5, the pad rotates with enough speed to do correction
(5) (pad direction) the backing plate spins in counterclockwise direction with no load, and in speeds 1 and 2. In speed 3 it seems to stall out and then in speeds 4 and 5 it spins in clockwise direction. When the pad is picked up from the surface, it spins in counterclockwise direction again. I've never seen this behavior before. FYI: In gear driven mode it spins in counterclockwise direction in all speeds.

I will share this email with Tony from Makita too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT_2sR3jVUs

P.S. Please excuse my posting to my wife's purse channel. :-)

Thoughts?
ScottH
 
When you get the pad on paint and move the polisher, it will stall with any tilt to the paint, even on speed 5. Random orbit mode is absolutely worthless, IMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
ScottM;

Have you tried this by looking directly at the pad, perhaps marking the backing plate?

Reason I ask, is that on a video, the pad does appear to rotate counter-clockwise first, then stops at speed 4 (slight clockwise rotation), and then clockwise at speeds after that. But this may nor be the "real world" rotation, just what is seen in the video. I am wondering if it isn't the same effect as in the old western movies, where the stagecoach wheels rotated forward, then seemed to stand still, then backwards, and then forwards again. This is caused by the speed of rotation of the wagon wheels and the spoke pattern of the wagon wheels vs. the frame rate of the movie camera. I am wondering if this is what is happening here, but the rotation of that backing plate/pad and hole pattern of the pad's edge vs. the frame rate of the video camera (some sort of smartphone. I would think). The pad should only be rotating in one direction by the mechanical design of the polisher; if the orbits are only going in one direction, then the rotation should only be going in one direction, too. Putting a marker of some sort may help to show if this is the case, or if the pad is actually reversing its rotation.
 
WRAPT C5Z06 said:
When you get the pad on paint and move the polisher, it will stall with any tilt to the paint, even on speed 5. Random orbit mode is absolutely worthless, IMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

should i start the 1st bid? ;)
 
kkritsilas said:
ScottM;

Have you tried this by looking directly at the pad, perhaps marking the backing plate?

Reason I ask, is that on a video, the pad does appear to rotate counter-clockwise first, then stops at speed 4 (slight clockwise rotation), and then clockwise at speeds after that. But this may nor be the "real world" rotation, just what is seen in the video. I am wondering if it isn't the same effect as in the old western movies, where the stagecoach wheels rotated forward, then seemed to stand still, then backwards, and then forwards again. This is caused by the speed of rotation of the wagon wheels and the spoke pattern of the wagon wheels vs. the frame rate of the movie camera. I am wondering if this is what is happening here, but the rotation of that backing plate/pad and hole pattern of the pad's edge vs. the frame rate of the video camera (some sort of smartphone. I would think). The pad should only be rotating in one direction by the mechanical design of the polisher; if the orbits are only going in one direction, then the rotation should only be going in one direction, too. Putting a marker of some sort may help to show if this is the case, or if the pad is actually reversing its rotation.
Click to expand...

Yes in fact I did a subsequent test with a piece of blue painters tape on the pad. I didn't want to mark the backing plate with a Sharpie (yet) and I am 100% sure the pad changed direction, starting counterclockwise and then clockwise. Good question.

ScottH
 
ScottH said:
Here is that second test video...are my eyes deceiving me?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhG8O1tnWcU

ScottH
Click to expand...
I just did the same test. If you lift the tool in the air, it spins counterclowise on ALL speeds. When I put the polisher to the paint, it spun counterclowise on speeds 1 & 2, and spun clockwise on speeds 3-5. Looks as though there needs to be enough friction to spin it clockwise. It's very disappointing that random orbit mode bogs so easily because it's super smooth!

Forced rotation mode is beastly, though! :buffing::dblthumb2:
 
ScottH said:
Dear Forum Members,

Here is a video of the Makita 5000C in free spin mode with a LC CCS pad on it. You will notice:

(1) with no load/pressure other than the polisher's own weight, speeds 1 and 2 have very slow rotation.
(2) in speed 3, the pads seems to orbit and not rotate
(3) in speed 4, the pad rotates but not nearly as fast as I would have expected and would make correction a time consuming process.
(4) in speed 5, the pad rotates with enough speed to do correction
(5) (pad direction) the backing plate spins in counterclockwise direction with no load, and in speeds 1 and 2. In speed 3 it seems to stall out and then in speeds 4 and 5 it spins in clockwise direction. When the pad is picked up from the surface, it spins in counterclockwise direction again. I've never seen this behavior before. FYI: In gear driven mode it spins in counterclockwise direction in all speeds.

I will share this email with Tony from Makita too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT_2sR3jVUs

P.S. Please excuse my posting to my wife's purse channel. :-)

Thoughts?
ScottH
Click to expand...


Confusing ?????
Mine will be here today if it does the same ...Ebay tomorrow and back to drawing board.
 
WRAPT C5Z06 said:
Mine does the same and yours will, too.
Click to expand...
:(

Take off Fed X shipping label ....take pic for ebay...then UPS Label :)

Seriously think of canceling my direct drive ...........

Have that and my Harbor Frieght with 5/6 " Backing plates and my clone mini....

Again I got caught up in the hype :(
 
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