Fell for the sales pitch - Griots Garage Orbital

I’m still amazed at how well my Rupes Mini and Rupes 15 can remove defects with MF cutting pads and a good compound. I came from a rotary and the long-throw DA’s didn’t floor me at first, but the more I use them the more I prefer the DA to a rotary.
 
Just curious......did you use 6" pads and backing plate or go to smaller plate and 5 - 5.25" pads?
The work at hand might have been more than the machine is capable of regardless of pad size but smaller pads do make a difference.
Standard 6"

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Standard 6"

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I see. A smaller Backing Plate, a 5" with 5.5" Pads will help with better rotation and less rotation bogging-stalling. Griots Garage makes a nice Ventilated 5" Plate. I have one for my Porter Cable 7424XP.

And you can go further yet. A 3.5" Backing Plate for use with 4" Pads, and even a 2-7/8" Plate can be used with 3" Pads. Again I have all these on hand. These help with the tighter areas, and smaller panels where you have better finesse and control in those areas.

One trick most us folks do, is we mark the top of the Backing Plate at the outer perimeter with a Magic Marker, or a Sharpie Pen. You can then more clearly see and keep an eye on Pad rotation as you use the machine. With no rotation, there's virtually zero in the way of correction with a D/A. With no rotation, all you have then in your hands then is one of those jiggle machine waxers from wally world.
 
Unless we're talking about the Flex 3401, or other forced rotation D/A machines, there's not one free wheeling D/A Machine that cannot be stalled.

Yeah, they're tricky, there is a learning curve where you have to pay constant strict attention to how you hold the Machine, and Pad against any panel, any curve or dip.

Truthfully, I think the Flex 3401 would've been more your personal cup of Tea with its forced rotation.

Many of us hobbyist folks here do have more than one machine. As well as most pros have a host of them for sure.

I'm just a hobbyist and I have the Milwaukee Variable Speed Rotary, 3 D/A Machines, the Griots Boss-15, the Baby Griots 3", and the Porter Cable 7424XP.

And there's probably a good chance that one day I might just get a hair up my butt, and I'll be ordering a Flex 3401 for myself. There are 2 different size Backing Plates from Flex, the standard 6", and I believe an even smaller Plate. Plus Lake Country also makes a 2-Plate Kit as well for the 3401.

What I do with my 3 machines on hand now, is the Griots Boss-15 will remain set up for use with the 5" Stock Backing Plate and 5.5" Pads. The Porter Cable with 3.5" Backing Plate and 4" Pads, and the Baby Griots with either 3" or even 2" Pads, as there is a smaller Backing Plate now available for that machine now too. (I have it)

Again, hope this helps you.
 
Standard 6"

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I can see why you were disappointed, the smaller pads and backing plate make a huge difference. Even with that it may not have been up to the task but I strongly recommend you try the smaller plate & pads before condemning the Griot's machine.
 
I have the microfiber pads with the fast cutting cream. Tried various pressures, etc. At one point I turned it up to 6 and just held it there. Nada.

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When you tackled those scratches with a rotary did you edgeing the pad to get a more isolated pressure and a smaller area where you cut those scratches? Cause that is a big downside with DA polishers that when you do that you stall the pad. With takeing out those kind of scratches with a DA you wet sanding it down by hand and then compounding those sanding marks out. And you have to overlapp with a DA as you get more correction a half inch in from the orbital coverage movement. So to get the most cutting you move the DA in center of the pad and the scratch is vertical to the movement. English is not my native language so hope I explain it right LOL.

The scratch from the tree branch seems quite deep. Do you really think it's not down in the primer?

You seemed to get the swirls out. And just had problems with the deeper scratches or did you have problem with getting the swirls out too?

The switch to the 5" backing plate is a necessary thing to do. And mark the backing plate to be seeing it's spinns as fast as possible. And there is wool pads that work on DA too. Lake Country Thin Foam Wool Pads is one option that I think cuts more than a mf cutting pad. Don't know the level of cut Fast Correcting Cream has. But Carpro ClearCut and Menzerna SHC300 and Sonax Cutmax is some compounds with a great cut from them. It could be an option to test those out. But do feel you can do what you did on your paint with a rotary polisher in both cutting and finishing. Then you would benefit from the hazzle to find out what works for you on a DA polisher.

Lake Country Thin Foamed Wool Pads
 
When you tackled those scratches with a rotary did you edgeing the pad to get a more isolated pressure and a smaller area where you cut those scratches? Cause that is a big downside with DA polishers that when you do that you stall the pad. With takeing out those kind of scratches with a DA you wet sanding it down by hand and then compounding those sanding marks out. And you have to overlapp with a DA as you get more correction a half inch in from the orbital coverage movement. So to get the most cutting you move the DA in center of the pad and the scratch is vertical to the movement. English is not my native language so hope I explain it right LOL.

The scratch from the tree branch seems quite deep. Do you really think it's not down in the primer?

You seemed to get the swirls out. And just had problems with the deeper scratches or did you have problem with getting the swirls out too?

The switch to the 5" backing plate is a necessary thing to do. And mark the backing plate to be seeing it's spinns as fast as possible. And there is wool pads that work on DA too. Lake Country Thin Foam Wool Pads is one option that I think cuts more than a mf cutting pad. Don't know the level of cut Fast Correcting Cream has. But Carpro ClearCut and Menzerna SHC300 and Sonax Cutmax is some compounds with a great cut from them. It could be an option to test those out. But do feel you can do what you did on your paint with a rotary polisher in both cutting and finishing. Then you would benefit from the hazzle to find out what works for you on a DA polisher.

Lake Country Thin Foamed Wool Pads
I'll check out the smaller pads. Me sticking more money into this orbital is dependent on whether or not I can get my hands on a rotary or if I have to buy one.

As far as that branch scratch there is one point, the initial impact, that might be too deep. Everything else I know I can get out with a foam cutting pad on a rotary without wet sanding.

The pictures I posted are from the orbital. I do not currently have a rotary.

As far as passes, the door was done in 3 sections, 6 passes (up/down side/side) with 40% overlap.

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Unless we're talking about the Flex 3401, or other forced rotation D/A machines, there's not one free wheeling D/A Machine that cannot be stalled.

Yeah, they're tricky, there is a learning curve where you have to pay constant strict attention to how you hold the Machine, and Pad against any panel, any curve or dip.

Truthfully, I think the Flex 3401 would've been more your personal cup of Tea with its forced rotation.

Many of us hobbyist folks here do have more than one machine. As well as most pros have a host of them for sure.

I'm just a hobbyist and I have the Milwaukee Variable Speed Rotary, 3 D/A Machines, the Griots Boss-15, the Baby Griots 3", and the Porter Cable 7424XP.

And there's probably a good chance that one day I might just get a hair up my butt, and I'll be ordering a Flex 3401 for myself. There are 2 different size Backing Plates from Flex, the standard 6", and I believe an even smaller Plate. Plus Lake Country also makes a 2-Plate Kit as well for the 3401.

What I do with my 3 machines on hand now, is the Griots Boss-15 will remain set up for use with the 5" Stock Backing Plate and 5.5" Pads. The Porter Cable with 3.5" Backing Plate and 4" Pads, and the Baby Griots with either 3" or even 2" Pads, as there is a smaller Backing Plate now available for that machine now too. (I have it)

Again, hope this helps you.
The problem I have with the higher end orbitals is they cost more than a rotary. That makes absolutely no sense to me. I can do everything from cutting to waxing with a rotary, I don't have issues with buffer burn, compound splatter, or any of that.

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The problem I have with the higher end orbitals is they cost more than a rotary. That makes absolutely no sense to me. I can do everything from cutting to waxing with a rotary, I don't have issues with buffer burn, compound splatter, or any of that.

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You said you bought the Griot's 6".

I have the same machine. $150 out the door. Great machines for removing light/moderate swirls or oxidation.

The "Higher end" orbitals are the longer throws. Check Flex, or the Griot's BOSS machines.

I think you read too much/didn't fully understand the scope of the Griot's 6 capabilities before purchase. No harm or foul.

In the future, if you ever need questions like this clarified, this forum is the place to start.

Any number of members here would have immediately steered you in the right direction.
 
You said you bought the Griot's 6".

I have the same machine. $150 out the door. Great machines for removing light/moderate swirls or oxidation.

The "Higher end" orbitals are the longer throws. Check Flex, or the Griot's BOSS machines.

I think you read too much/didn't fully understand the scope of the Griot's 6 capabilities before purchase. No harm or foul.

In the future, if you ever need questions like this clarified, this forum is the place to start.

Any number of members here would have immediately steered you in the right direction.
I read thread after thread of people singing high praises of the Griots 6".

That's why I bought it.

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I read thread after thread of people singing high praises of the Griots 6".

That's why I bought it.

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I certainly appreciate that. I am a guy that reads tons of reviews as well.

But starting a thread here on AGO yields much better info than just reading reviews.

The collective knowledge here is the best in the world.
 
I should have just known better. No matter how much people like them an orbital is an orbital and it'll never be a rotary.
I certainly appreciate that. I am a guy that reads tons of reviews as well.

But starting a thread here on AGO yields much better info than just reading reviews.

The collective knowledge here is the best in the world.

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The problem I have with the higher end orbitals is they cost more than a rotary. That makes absolutely no sense to me. I can do everything from cutting to waxing with a rotary, I don't have issues with buffer burn, compound splatter, or any of that.

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I understand your reasoning, and have to honor your choices. Yes, I'll agree, the high end machines are quite pricey. I think many graduate to such machines as the Flex and Rupes. Probably most have the mindset of "I've had the rest, and now I want the best".

About my only bit of a gripe I have with such costly machines is wishing they had a better-longer warrantee given with them. The Griots D/A you bought comes with a lifetime warrantee. No, the Griots is not near the build quality of the Flex-Rupes, but does give the buyer some comfort in knowing the company is going to stand behind their machines and the purchase for a long time.

Sort of like buying a $9,000, or a $18,000 McIntosh Audio Amplifier(s), then only having a 3 year warrantee sometimes doesn't instill a lot of buyer confidence-assurance in some ways, even though such high build quality Amplifiers as McIntosh can usually be handed down from generation to generation.

Your choices, just like all other detailers, it comes down to personal choice and preferences, and there's no clear cut, set in stone determination of who's right, or who's wrong with their likes of any specific machine.

That fella I mentioned earlier correcting the '69 Camaro SS, I strongly doubt he'll ever convert-switch to a D/A either.

I reckon there's a number of ways to skin a Cat. Same with detailing and doing paint correction. If one gets to the same point in the end, and with the same desired end results, I guess that's what's ultimately counts.
 
I've never used any of the Griots Polishes to comment how they are? Seems that they are good products from reading other's reviews-comments about the latest line that they now make.

Due to your past experience, and I'll assume a good deal of hands on experience, I'd probably be correct to say you've seen and done a lot more than me.

Without blathering too much, I'm sure you've noted that you cannot "edge" an Orbital D/A like a Rotary. That there's no debate that every free spinning D/A will fall flat on its face when attempting a method which can be employed with a Rotary Machine.

Other observations would be that with the scratches still there to the degree that they were, then going to a milder perfecting cream from a more aggressive polish-compound surely wasn't going to get it. That follow up and additional use with the coarser product on hand was no doubt still needed before moving on.

You mention your use of using 3M products in the past, and I have used many of theirs myself over many years. They have a vast list, and just wanted to say there's basically no harm-foul of using whatever chemical products you personally like and are accustomed to and have good experience with.

These Griots Products, while I have not tried them, may be only suited for the removal of less than substantial paint damage, and more engineered towards the removal of wash induced marring-swirling, light oxidation, and other minor anomalies rather than the removal of deeper RIDS, Water Spotting, Heavy Oxidation, etc.

It of course takes experience and a trained eye to see how a specific product and process is working in regards of removing paint damage of the various types. It's why Mike Phillips our forum guru-expert here, and wise other detailers will suggest the "Test Spot" method to find what works properly and best per any given situation. No harm-foul of a need to repeat a process again to remove deeper isolated scratches, provided those more aggressive attempts do not leave behind permanent damage that then cannot be removed-rectified with further finessing steps.

You may achieve better results by first "working" on these isolated scratches by hand with a compound or very light-mild wet sanding, then coming behind again with the D/A? The D/A should be able to remove 3000 or 2000 grit wet sanding marks no problemo.

As for the Rotary and again acquiring and using one, of course, why not!? You may be able to find a nice used one on a local hometown classifieds, or other sources thus saving some substantial money in the process. Or perhaps borrow one temporarily from a friend?
 
I removed some fairly deep scratches with my Griot's DA. I ran 4" Boss pads using Menzerna heavy cut. I'm wondering if you need a heavier cutting polish?

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I read thread after thread of people singing high praises of the Griots 6".

That's why I bought it.

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It is a good machine, I agree with everyone else that a 5" plate and pads are the way to go. I may have an extra 5" plate I can send you. If I don't have the plate I just bought 18 new pads so Incan send you some 5" boss pads so you can keep your cost down on seeing if the 5" setup gives you what you need. Nothing wrong with the pads I would sent you, I just have a lot of them and I'm trying out some new pads.
 
I've never used any of the Griots Polishes to comment how they are? Seems that they are good products from reading other's reviews-comments about the latest line that they now make.

Due to your past experience, and I'll assume a good deal of hands on experience, I'd probably be correct to say you've seen and done a lot more than me.

Without blathering too much, I'm sure you've noted that you cannot "edge" an Orbital D/A like a Rotary. That there's no debate that every free spinning D/A will fall flat on its face when attempting a method which can be employed with a Rotary Machine.

Other observations would be that with the scratches still there to the degree that they were, then going to a milder perfecting cream from a more aggressive polish-compound surely wasn't going to get it. That follow up and additional use with the coarser product on hand was no doubt still needed before moving on.

You mention your use of using 3M products in the past, and I have used many of theirs myself over many years. They have a vast list, and just wanted to say there's basically no harm-foul of using whatever chemical products you personally like and are accustomed to and have good experience with.

These Griots Products, while I have not tried them, may be only suited for the removal of less than substantial paint damage, and more engineered towards the removal of wash induced marring-swirling, light oxidation, and other minor anomalies rather than the removal of deeper RIDS, Water Spotting, Heavy Oxidation, etc.

It of course takes experience and a trained eye to see how a specific product and process is working in regards of removing paint damage of the various types. It's why Mike Phillips our forum guru-expert here, and wise other detailers will suggest the "Test Spot" method to find what works properly and best per any given situation. No harm-foul of a need to repeat a process again to remove deeper isolated scratches, provided those more aggressive attempts do not leave behind permanent damage that then cannot be removed-rectified with further finessing steps.

You may achieve better results by first "working" on these isolated scratches by hand with a compound or very light-mild wet sanding, then coming behind again with the D/A? The D/A should be able to remove 3000 or 2000 grit wet sanding marks no problemo.

As for the Rotary and again acquiring and using one, of course, why not!? You may be able to find a nice used one on a local hometown classifieds, or other sources thus saving some substantial money in the process. Or perhaps borrow one temporarily from a friend?

The reason I went to a milder polishing cream and then later to a wax was simply because after multiple passes in each direction with varying amounts of pressure (I'm talking from just enough to keep the machine on the paint to almost to the point of stalling) I knew the scratch wasn't coming out with what I had on had.

After that point I still wanted to test the polish an wax. I've demo'd some polishes from vedors in the past that looked absolutely amazing when first applied, easy on, completely removed cutting burns, deep color etc only to have all the defects return a week or so later because the polish was just fillers and didn't actually polish.

To help paint a better picture of how bad my poor truck has gotten, I was beginning to see buffer swirl from when the dealership buffed it prior to me buying it... 4 years ago. I debadged the doors and tailgate not long after buying it and those "shadows" where also starting to become visible.

The truck has been through 1 thunderstorm, sitting in constant sunlight, and will be washed again today. If the Griots compounds are more filler than compound, I should be able to start to see evidence after the wash.

I dunno if that makes sense or not.

The reason I like 3m is because I had a vendor that sold 3m. A lot of the stuff I see y'all using is retail stuff, things I've never used.

I had vendors, they'd stop by or I'd call every so often and I'd get what I needed. I never used off the shelf products. Same with new products that whatever company they were peddling for came out with. They'd give me a sample of whatever, I'd demo it on the shop truck and go from there.

As far as wet sanding I'm really hesitant about doing anything like that without a rotary on hand, nothing I've seen from this orbital inspires enough confidence that I won't be driving around a truck with shiney, sanded panels.

As far as a rotary, yes I should get one, it's just a pretty steep investment for something I'm not going to use real often.

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I removed some fairly deep scratches with my Griot's DA. I ran 4" Boss pads using Menzerna heavy cut. I'm wondering if you need a heavier cutting polish?

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That's possible. The problem I'm having right now is trying to decide what to do.

Option A) Return the machine, eat the shipping costs, and give the pads and compounds away. $250 ish dollar initial cost, I'd get $150 of that back minus shipping. Although part of that $250 was wax.

Option B) Keep it, throw more money at in in pads, backing plates, compounds, and hope they work.

Option C) Put it all in a box, put the box in a corner, cry for a bit, and order a rotary setup.

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It is a good machine, I agree with everyone else that a 5" plate and pads are the way to go. I may have an extra 5" plate I can send you. If I don't have the plate I just bought 18 new pads so Incan send you some 5" boss pads so you can keep your cost down on seeing if the 5" setup gives you what you need. Nothing wrong with the pads I would sent you, I just have a lot of them and I'm trying out some new pads.
Well lemme ask you this; if I'm going for maximum oomph wouldn't a 3" backing plate and cutting pad be the way to go?

Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate the offer, I'm just trying to limit how much more money I stick into this in case it's all for nought.

Thanks,
Ryan

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