From "stay tuned" to T U N E D !!

First off, I will say your brain gets used to the changes and your perceptions become recalibrated. When I moved from my GTI to the 435 I picked up 150-ish HP and about the same in torque. It felt like a rocket for the first couple of months. After a year or so of ownership I began to think it wasn't all that quick and I wanted more power, but it still was quite quick when driven properly.

A tune is software and it will apply the same settings to the ECU every time. The code doesn't change. What might change is how the engine and the mechanical bits hold up to the change and how other sensors nor included in the tune might adjust/react as well. Many ECU's "learn" so a problem might not show up right away after being flashed.

Also, mods aren't always cumulative, e.g. the more you add the more they improve performance by a specific amount. That's where it becomes a slippery slope and one you have to plan really carefully. Some mods might compliment each other, others nullify each other, and others might actually be detrimental. I remember a TV show years ago where they dyno'd heavily mod'ed cars and then analyized the results based on the build. Of the few episodes I watched I remember quite a few owners being rather disappointed in the results of their builds. It was quite eye-opening to me and left a lasting impression whenever I think about engine mods. Of course suspension mods are no different. You can throw a bunch of bits at a car that all seem to make sense and not end up with the result you hoped. For this reason I take a very slow/deliberate approach and only do one thing at a time, and even then don't really do too much.

I'd love to hear Oneheadlight's thoughts as our resident mechanic.
 
Thanks Desert, as you know it was a low boost tune with other adjustments made and "safeties" left alone, a "stockish" intake and larger TIP. I also added coils that were "supposed" to better and colder plugs, OEM coils back in, all done at once...for the record.

I too am waiting to hear from him and greatly appreciate YOUR input as well

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Yeah true about the but dyno settling down. I was never a modern America can car guy. Love the classics but never thought I’d be a Mustang/Camaro/challenger guy. Love the refinement of a Japanese car. A Japanese v8 was ultimate goal.

Wasn’t till my buddy had me drive the mustang that I got the bug. It had more HP than anything I had modded or tuned.

When I got the Camaro the lot I was at I went to go look at a Q50 redsport. The Mustang was fun but back to my roots. Till the guy points the Camaro out. Now I had seen it as I drove buy it and liked the color combo.

What I had not known was it was Procharged. I figured why not drive it. The thing got squirrelly in third flooring it. Car scared me. Never drove anything that fast, 600HP at the rear wheels. I drove the redsport after and no contest….

It felt “too fast” for about a month and now years later it seems mundane…. Like I feel like I need more HP….

You’ll always get use to and familiar with any HP gains


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Coatingsarecrack said:
When I got the Camaro the lot I was at I went to go look at a Q50 redsport.
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Was pondering a Q60 AWD Redsport before I ran across the Cayman. Sounded like a good all-season fun car. Probably lucked out passing on it as they seem to eat their turbos on occasion. Fun car ain’t a fun car if it becomes a PITA.

Did you drive the Q50?


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BudgetPlan1 said:
Was pondering a Q60 AWD Redsport before I ran across the Cayman. Sounded like a good all-season fun car. Probably lucked out passing on it as they seem to eat their turbos on occasion. Fun car ain’t a fun car if it becomes a PITA.

Did you drive the Q50?


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I did. Just wasn’t as fun after the Camaro. Also the 3.5 liter v6 Nissans been using has been a tank. Not sure of the new 3.0 liter.


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Coatingsarecrack said:
I did. Just wasn’t as fun after the Camaro. Also the 3.5 liter v6 Nissans been using has been a tank. Not sure of the new 3.0 liter.

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The new 3.0's are not nearly as bulletproof. Loved mine, still feel it's a great looking design, although quite dated, but when I got mine the price was beyond great. Did a mild piggy back then a full AMS Tune then sold it to cash in on Covid Stupidity and am glad I did. Onced the boost was bumped, the intakes sounded great and the Sport Exhaust, which is an amazing deal/option, roared like a dragon. I miss the sound. Didn't have quite the Speed or HP of my Stage III Audi but it was fun in a different way.

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I still think the Q60 coupe is one of the best looking two-doors on the road today. The sedan looked good, but the coupe is a head-turner for me.
 
Desertnate said:
I still think the Q60 coupe is one of the best looking two-doors on the road today. The sedan looked good, but the coupe is a head-turner for me.
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Especially in that dark blue with the off-white interior

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I haven't heard anything about my car today, guess the ECU didn't come in....or did they find something else, stay "tuned"

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Well I got a txt from my SA about an hour and a half ago and she said my EN was done. They replaced the ECU and both horns

I just don't feel right about the repair (ECU replacement) as it was doing what it did last July when they replaced the knock sensor. This time the screen said ECU but the OBD reader said 1326 (knock sensor)

Now our resident techs and those in the know, can a bad ECU throw a code for the knock sensor or when it was ECU tuned something happen 5 monthes later to made my tuned ECU go bad and/or throw a 1326 code

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Maybe our techs can decipher the abbreviations here

Got the EN back and while I didn't put my foot in it it felt great to be back behind the wheel of 300 hp again

What's coming next....stay "tuned"
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So now I've got a decision to make:

(A) Take advantage of the free reflash on my original ECU

-decide on Stage 1 or 2, the latter calling for upgraded HPFP ($550) also makes a little more power.

(B) Buy what my buddy Marcin has, Stillen TruControl piggyback, doesn't call for upgraded HPFP.

(C)

Choice (A) has me salvaging some of the $1500 I spent w/N75, possibly spending more if I were to go Stage 2. I've already swapped out those MSD coils, not 100% sure they were even the problem on the dyno, maybe the tune was bad then, going bad, car not warmed up, etc

Choice (B) was dyno proven right infront of me (330 whp/353 wtq) The piggyback doesn't leave a trace of anything on the ECU

Choice (C) has me laying down next to my bowl and playing it safe and running my N Performance intake and Shark Racing turbo inlet pipe and Stillen mid-pipe, possibly adding the axle-back afterwards

I see/hear so many people with tunes having ZERO issues and enjoy that little extra making their driving experience a little more special when the time is right...WHY CAN'T I ENJOY THAT

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Plan D

Tune ECU… sell it…. Get Stillen set up. You see it being run in real life with no effects.

Or plan E… LS swap


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Washed the EN before the Super Bowl today...then the code came back...again

They replaced the ECU, even though the code was for the knock sensor...again

We dropped it off, I left a note in the car and with the drop off box. God knows when it will be done, you'd think the knock sensor would be in stock

Here's the rentals...my buddy had the highlighter green one, I had the black Kona N-line, maybe the Sante Cruz this time
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That's so frustrating, it's like your own private hell, to have a car you love, that goes hard, but if you wash it, it throws a code at you, like, almost out of spite.

We don't get the Santa Cruz over here, yet. But it might be coming, they say Kia is developing something off the same platform for our market. They'd be crazy not to, the top 3 selling vehicles in Australia are all Utes (pickups), Ford Ranger is top, then Toyota Hilux, and Isuzu D-Max in third, so there's definitely a market for a smaller urban utility vehicle.

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You said it all Dave!

The thing is my confidence is waining right now, between parts quality/engineering, diagnosis issues and the fact that car washes over time have worn the knock sensor out

I'll be on the phone with Hyundai corporate about this recurring issue. It's not the 3rd issue with the same problem but this is absolutely ridiculous

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Well this is frustrating. Consistently getting the same error every time the car gets wet makes no sense unless that sensor or the wiring between it and the next step in the engine control system it is taking on water and causing a signaling issue. To make things even more complicated, sometimes the error code being shown may not always indicate the problem assigned to the code. However, I've usually see than when it's multiple codes showing up at once, not a single one.

I did a little Googling to try and decrypt the acronyms on your service report. From what I can tell, the mechanics plugged in their laptop with Hyundai's diagnostic software, and the ECU (or ECM, same thing) not only triggered an error of some sort, but it also couldn't even pull the VIN off the ECU. Getting the VIN off the ECU I think is the first step in the software synching up with the car. Essentially, the car couldn't even give the mechanic it's name. That seems a little strange, but it does point to something not good in the ECU. No idea if that was due to a failure during the tune or the ECU failing on its own.

Once they get all of these issues sorted, I don't think I'd mess with flashing the ECU again. A piggyback isn't a bad option, and probably a safer way to go. While I don't doubt the integrity of your tuner, I can't help but think that the tuning of N cars is still a fairly new thing since they haven't been on the market all that long. There can still be some "growing pains" as the vendors and market learn more about the engines and the cars. Unlike some JDM and German tuners who have been working on the same brands for decades, the Koreans are fairly new, uncharted territory.

Keep us posted on what you find out!
 
Sorry for the late check in.

I usually only have time to sit down and do posting during my lunch break, but lately I've been working through logistics of a thing I'll be building (might post in the non-detailing related, not that it's that exciting).

So, as a dealer tech they always wanted your story to have the 3 C's - Complaint, Cause, Correction. Reading your invoice, I read it basically as Desertnate did.

My read - because this is a repeat issue, they typically will escalate to contacting their manufacturer tech assist line. This puts them in contact with in house experts to help with diagnosing issues. This can also lead to them connecting with actual engineers from the company if answers can't be found.

During their connecting with the car, they found the ECM did not have the VIN populated which was the first red flag for them. Next was the fact that the fault would set on start up, not even requiring a drive cycle. (Side Note: JB tuners on BMW's will nuke communication with scantools unless the tune is disabled - this is likely a different issue than what you're having).

New ECM in, programmed as required (new control modules frequently need to be told what car they're in so they know what other stuff in the car they're looking for; IE: Manual/auto/etc. Plus certain modules get the VIN burned into them so they get locked to a specific vehicle - Due to immobilizer/component protection most German stuff won't let you swap modules between cars). As far as tech experienced, thought it was good.

I did a little poking around in the info I had available through our shop software, though really not much a lot was there for your N-Line. I ended up switching to a standard Elantra to see what I could see. Their trouble shooting table for the knock sensor is pretty basic, so not terribly surprising it's parts throwing time.

As far as I see it, options for the issue (especially since it's happening with stock ECM):
- Connection issue at the Knock sensor or ECM - they should check what's called "Pin drag" - make sure there's sufficient tension in the electrical contacts of the connector. Sometimes factory harnesses had issues with wire crimping at the terminals, sometimes just from being repeatedly plugged in/unplugged you can end up with loosened contacts. There's also a thing called "Fretting corrosion", where you get microscopic corrosion in the terminals just from the 2 pieces expanding and contracting at a microscopic level.
- Wiring issue - something in the copper between the knock sensor and the computer - There needs to be more than a simple open circuit (both ends unplugged) ohm check. A suitable load (light bulb) should be substituted in and the voltage drop measured for each wire. See below.
- Knock sensor issue - either a bad sensor or an improperly torqued sensor. Knock sensors are incredibly sensitive little guys that generate voltage from vibration; Too tight or too loose and they can be damaged or simply provide an incorrect signal.
- Computer processing issue - Seems like this should be off the table since it's new.
- An actual knock issue. Hate to say it, but if all other elements are functioning correctly, then the knock sensor could just be doing it's job and reporting that it's hearing noise it shouldn't be. Timing or timing chain issues, piston slap, or excessive bearing clearance could cause this. I saw a procedure in the repair info that they have a tool for testing for excessive bearing clearance ( https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2021/MC-10190044-0001.pdf ). This is concerning because it means it's a thing they've seen enough to make a way to test for it. That might be a question to ask your service peeps and see if they can let you know what engines they've been seeing that on.

In your shoes, I'd be sure to ask the Service Manager (we're at too many visits here in my opinion for this to be a service writer discussion) to put their best diagnostician in the shop on it as you're tired of the repeat issues and make your loss of faith (politely) known. Unfortunately sometimes there are hard problems - it's all in how the experience of handling them goes.

Not sure this is of any help, but wanted to get back to you.


Below: My best attempt to explain voltage drop - A single strand of copper will pass a resistance (ohm) test, but you make that wire carry power in a live circuit and it turns into a heating element using up power. Basically a wire with corrosion or not enough material to carry the current turns into a consumer. Have a corroded engine ground? Car won't start because even though the starter is good, the ground cable is om-nomming all the juice (and likely getting toasty warm in the process).
 
Oh! And back to a previous post of tunes "going away" on their own - I think I remember hearing about old BMWs where they would unlearn reflashes, but this is mid/late 90's stuff when it was an early concept. Can't say I've heard anything about it recently. Again, all my experience comes with a huge disclaimer that I'm only plugged into BMW/Audiland.
 
Desert and One headlight...THANK YOU!

So because this is triggered by the carwash, although not every single wash as the first knock sensor, original one, lasted till July 2023 (1 calender year of using the carwash multiple times a week, 2nd knock sensor one from Mid July 2023 till Jan 30th of this year) the techline is suggesting a special dialectic grease that had to be ordered and should be here Sat. I promised not to run the car through the wash and they cleared the code, road tested it and said I can pick it up after work.

Now when I cleared the code on the 30th of January myself it lasted 4 days and 47 miles before coming on AND no carwash either, just an FYI.

What do the 2 of you think about this "fix" from the techline

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