I've changed something from here on out...

[WRAPT C5Z06]

I used to clay every car, regardless of color. I've noticed that when claying dark colored cars, and not polishing, there's noticeable marring. It's nothing major, I think marring from claying is normal. Most customers can't tell, but I can, and it bugs me. On light colored cars, yea, it's there, but if I can't see it, that's good enough for me. So, I will no longer clay dark colored cars unless I'm polishing after. Anyone feel the same way?

 

[maximus20895]

I wouldn't clay unless I am doing some polishing afterwords.

 

[buddhadog]

If you use a milder clay it wont usually marr. Try mothers or zaino clay bar.

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

If you use a milder clay it wont usually marr. Try mothers or zaino clay bar.

I don't see how claying using any clay won't marr the surface. You're ribbing gritty contaminants directly against the paint no matter how much lube you use. Some will disagree, but it only makes sense to me.

 

[maximus20895]

I agree!

 

[Kevin Brown]

Mark, you are right. The contaminants cause the bulk of the scratching.

But really... you telling us that YOU aren't gonna polish a car that you intend to wax?!

Unless you are hand waxing, it's just too darned easy, much faster, and quicker to wax with a DA.

So why are you not using a quality cleaner/wax, with high-grade abrasives?

Hmmmmm?

We all know this is the REAL you: :buffing:

 

[buddhadog]

I don't see how claying using any clay won't marr the surface. You're ribbing gritty contaminants directly against the paint no matter how much lube you use. Some will disagree, but it only makes sense to me.

I think you may be rubbing too hard and not using enough lube Mark.

 

[Wills.WindowsAndWheels]

Hey Mark, for me...I think claying saves time in the long run because i HATE how running a wax pad over a gritty surface feels...not to mention running a MF over it to remove the wax...I'm sure you've had the MF catch and unfold and just be a big pain in the ass like i've had happen on the bad ones.

While yes I understand your point...I'd have to go with at least claying the horizontal surfaces. I'm not sure if you've heard of or tried them (AG doesnt sell them so i hope they dont get mad), but i recently bought something called the Hi Tech Magna Sponge. Does the same thing as clay...except you can rinse it out, thus washing away the contaminants you removed and not just rubbing them over the surface like you were talking about.

Now i've only used this on one truck so far (i just bought them, like $12/ea.)...it was black, and honestly i couldn't tell you if it marred the surface or not cause this guys truck was SO jacked (he was a construction contractor) that i coulda run steel wool over it and been able to tell any difference lol. It turned out good after polishing...but one thing I LOVED about the sponge is how easily it removed paint over spray and paint transfer....and trust me there was a LOT.

I only had one spot on the tail gate that gave me trouble..and i had to use a little finger nail action to remove it cause it was more of a GLOB of paint...but the other spots came right off...so maybe you could consider that as an option?

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Mark, you are right. The contaminants cause the bulk of the scratching.

But really... you telling us that YOU aren't gonna polish a car that you intend to wax?!

Unless you are hand waxing, it's just too darned easy, much faster, and quicker to wax with a DA.

So why are you not using a quality cleaner/wax, with high-grade abrasives?

Hmmmmm?

We all know this is the REAL you: :buffing:

It would be nice to polish every car I work on, but some don't wanna pay for it.

I think I've waxed a car ONCE by hand! :laughing: I discovered the DA for applying wax and never looked back!

High grade cleaner wax? I've thought of those, but in essence, aren't you still polishing(D151 for instance)? No worky for free...lol.

Hey Mark, for me...I think claying saves time in the long run because i HATE how running a wax pad over a gritty surface feels...not to mention running a MF over it to remove the wax...I'm sure you've had the MF catch and unfold and just be a big pain in the ass like i've had happen on the bad ones.

:laughing: I couldn't agree with you more, Wills!!! Don't get me wrong, I don't mind claying, it's the consequences of claying without polishing after. Maybe I won't do anything to a car unless they'll pay for polishing!!!! Im the MAN

I'll look into the clay block. rops:

 

[VR8]

I'm in the same frame of mind. My detail packages only include a wax/sealant. In order to get a polish, even a one step polish like Meguiar's 151, it'll cost extra. On the other hand, I feel like they deserve a clayed surface if they are paying for my detail (verses just slapping wax on any old surface). On a couple of occassions I've called the customer and informed them that after washing and claying the paint was showing signs of oxidation or some other build-up and asked if they wanted me to 1-step polish. It only adds $50 so most of them will.

In a perfect world I'd be able to avoid this by signing up the customer for a polish in the first place, but there's no way to tell what the surface is going to be like when you first get it from the customer and it's dirty.

EDIT: and I've used the clay block ... I like it okay until it starts to wear around the edges.

 

[Flannigan]

IMO you should always follow up a clay with at least a paint cleaner on a polishing pad. No matter how fine the clay is there is a chance, a high one, that the paint will get marred in some form or another. I never clay unless I'm doing at least a paint cleaner following it.

For customers you need to get them on a good schedule and if you see them often enough you shouldn't need to clay except for the times that you are going to polish. There is usually no reason to clay more than a couple times a year.

 

[dougaross]

Hey Mark, for me...I think claying saves time in the long run because i HATE how running a wax pad over a gritty surface feels...not to mention running a MF over it to remove the wax...I'm sure you've had the MF catch and unfold and just be a big pain in the ass like i've had happen on the bad ones.

While yes I understand your point...I'd have to go with at least claying the horizontal surfaces. I'm not sure if you've heard of or tried them (AG doesnt sell them so i hope they dont get mad), but i recently bought something called the Hi Tech Magna Sponge. Does the same thing as clay...except you can rinse it out, thus washing away the contaminants you removed and not just rubbing them over the surface like you were talking about.

Now i've only used this on one truck so far (i just bought them, like $12/ea.)...it was black, and honestly i couldn't tell you if it marred the surface or not cause this guys truck was SO jacked (he was a construction contractor) that i coulda run steel wool over it and been able to tell any difference lol. It turned out good after polishing...but one thing I LOVED about the sponge is how easily it removed paint over spray and paint transfer....and trust me there was a LOT.

I only had one spot on the tail gate that gave me trouble..and i had to use a little finger nail action to remove it cause it was more of a GLOB of paint...but the other spots came right off...so maybe you could consider that as an option?

AG does sell Elastrofoam
I have used this and it's great. Unfortunately the way its bundled with the lube makes it expensive. I recently bought a Magna sponge but have not used it yet.

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

IMO you should always follow up a clay with at least a paint cleaner on a polishing pad. No matter how fine the clay is there is a chance, a high one, that the paint will get marred in some form or another. I never clay unless I'm doing at least a paint cleaner following it.

For customers you need to get them on a good schedule and if you see them often enough you shouldn't need to clay except for the times that you are going to polish. There is usually no reason to clay more than a couple times a year.

Do you mean a paint cleaner with some type of abrasives? Some paint cleaners are strictly chemical with zero correction ability(Wolfgang, P21, Pinnacle).

 

[richy]

Mark, have you tried my trick of heating the clay in a microwave prior to using it? Kep a mug of steaming hot water with you to dunk it in afterward. I find it helps minimize the marring you will get with clay yet does not detract from its cleaning ability.

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Mark, have you tried my trick of heating the clay in a microwave prior to using it? Kep a mug of steaming hot water with you to dunk it in afterward. I find it helps minimize the marring you will get with clay yet does not detract from its cleaning ability.

Whoa, I'll definitely give that a shot!! How long do you put the clay in the micro for? Where do you come up with these ideas??? :laughing: rops:

 

[richy]

Whoa, I'll definitely give that a shot!! How long do you put the clay in the micro for? Where do you come up with these ideas??? :laughing: rops:

Mark, I came up with that a few winters ago doing a car in my garage that was cold. I found that the clay was so unmoldable (is that a word?) and unmanageable, that I decided to try to make it more pliable and nuked it. It worked like a charm!! I included that info in my Show & Shine posts at L2D and here. (I know they are usually long-winded so maybe you missed it; I do it all the time now as I find it makes the clay better and easier to use). I nuke a 1/2 piece for about 30 seconds and then inspect it. Micro's make it softer in the middle, so I knead it and see total consistency. I nuke it a bit more if needed or use it immediately if not. The hot water helps keep it that way. I use scorching hot water and grab on to a tiny corner and dip the rest in. Hope that helps.

 

[Flannigan]

Do you mean a paint cleaner with some type of abrasives? Some paint cleaners are strictly chemical with zero correction ability(Wolfgang, P21, Pinnacle).

When used on a polishing pad with some cut it will still remove minor marring. Even P21S paint cleaner will remove marring when used on a polishing pad. I'm not talking heavy swirls, but light clay marring would be no problem.

I sell on my details assuming I'm going to clay and at the very least clean the paint. In all honesty using a paint cleaner on a car by machine takes an hour at most. So I don't mind taking a little extra time to make sure the car is perfect.

 

[BobbyG]

I used to clay every car, regardless of color. I've noticed that when claying dark colored cars, and not polishing, there's noticeable marring. It's nothing major, I think marring from claying is normal. Most customers can't tell, but I can, and it bugs me. On light colored cars, yea, it's there, but if I can't see it, that's good enough for me. So, I will no longer clay dark colored cars unless I'm polishing after. Anyone feel the same way?

I do agree with the marring Mark and ran into this on a car I was doing yesterday.

The hood was worse that the rest of the car primarily do to it being subjected to wind, rain, dirt, dust and everything else for that matter. I ended up doing a 2 stage correction and could not believe the amount of grime embedded in the paint...This car is only 3 months old!

The photo below is from 1/2 of the hood... color black.

 

[mcpp66]

I couldn't even clay my black Camaro with Pinnacle's very mild clay without marring it. Because of this I've decided to not clay that car at all, which is a decision I hate. I have the Magna Foam and the Elastrofoam (really they seem like the same thing to me) but I'm afraid of marring my paint with those tools as well.

 

[Bunky]

Do you mean a paint cleaner with some type of abrasives? Some paint cleaners are strictly chemical with zero correction ability(Wolfgang, P21, Pinnacle).

If you use a polishing pad (like LC white) it should be able to do some very light correction.