What the hell are these (Spots On Paint)

I have seen this happen a few times. This case may or may not be the same as I am about to try to explain but according to what you have done and tried, I feel about 85% SURE......


When the first layer of clear was sprayed, there were particles in the gun, clear or air. These particles were so small that the naked eye will not see them. As following layers of clear were sprayed the particles are still in that first layer sticking out like a tree stump if you will. When the car was wet sanded, these particles were leveled flush with the surface. When you did the correction, the particles were still in the paint but just flush. So as you were running the buffer over these areas you were basically wiggling those particles loose(Like a child wiggles his baby teeth out). In turn you wiggled some of these particles out and left a microscopic hole in the clear. When you finished polishing all looked well. As a little time and direct sun hits the vehicle, the clear surrounding this microscopic hole has lifted due to polishing oils, air, water and/or expansion from the suns heat.

All caused by dirty spray equipment or something from the person who has resprayed the clear. NOT YOU.

The microscope mentioned is a good way to look for this as a possible cause. Another way is to take some Megs #7 or perhaps some 205 and put it on a few of the spots and leave it sit over night. If the spots have gotten bigger(Take pics to compare because the difference is really hard to tell) then you can be assured that this is your situation which requires removing the clear and a proper respray!
 
I've never heard of anyone having their car re-cleared. Did the painter remove all the glass/trim? Why didn't he just sand the factory clear?

Oh yea. When he takes it back to the painter, he's going to blame you for the damage more then likely
 
I've seen reclearing done on factory paint for show cars. I think it's to improve the finish. Why not just wet sand? I can't say.

I have small specs on my door from clear pulling away from the base coat but I don't think it looks the same to me. Mine looks cloudy and I think these spots look white.
 
BobbyG said:
I've looked at your work before and I'm always impressed. I think if these were there after the full detail you surely would have noticed especially in the sun. This ones leaves me scratching my head and it seems like its all over the car now....


  • From the photos they appear to be white spots?
  • If I'm understanding you correctly you can see them but can't feel them?

This wasn't the first time the car has been left in the bright hot sun since it was cleared was it? The reason I ask if it is then it's possible that the sun has heated something up within the paint causing it to react and becoming visible.

I'm still wondering if this is surface contamination underneath the clear coat?
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First off, thanks Bobby i appreciate the support :).

Yes they are white and yes i can SEE them but not FEEL them. And i can't even FEEL a 'crevice' or spot that may have been left from something etching it. That on top of the fact that claying and compounding did ZERO, left me scratching my head too. I too am curious about the clear, it's just the time frame that throws me for a loop since it has been 1 1/2 years.

Someone on another forum suggested it might be "Artillery Fungus" There’s a fungus among us. | Car Pool Detail LLC
BUT it appears to be black and brown, not white...ALSO it appears you can FEEL it...but i on the other hand can't feel anything...

Jimmie said:
You mentioned that it was on the street. Was it parked under an elm? I've seen similar from an aphid type bug that attacks some elms. Their excretions leave little round sap looking marks. Hard to get out. You can usually tell if they are there if the asphalt appears wet around where it was parked.
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He said there were no Elms around, just Pine and Maple trees.

dchristo said:
I have seen spots like that when it has been heated.....ie rotary buffer, direct sun etc..
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See thats the other thing, the car has been cut with a rotary 3 x's since the factory clear was sanded off and a re-clear was done. So i would THINK it would have shown up before now...AND i used only DA's on the car...no rotary.
 
Dr Oldz said:
I have seen this happen a few times. This case may or may not be the same as I am about to try to explain but according to what you have done and tried, I feel about 85% SURE......


When the first layer of clear was sprayed, there were particles in the gun, clear or air. These particles were so small that the naked eye will not see them. As following layers of clear were sprayed the particles are still in that first layer sticking out like a tree stump if you will. When the car was wet sanded, these particles were leveled flush with the surface. When you did the correction, the particles were still in the paint but just flush. So as you were running the buffer over these areas you were basically wiggling those particles loose(Like a child wiggles his baby teeth out). In turn you wiggled some of these particles out and left a microscopic hole in the clear. When you finished polishing all looked well. As a little time and direct sun hits the vehicle, the clear surrounding this microscopic hole has lifted due to polishing oils, air, water and/or expansion from the suns heat.

All caused by dirty spray equipment or something from the person who has resprayed the clear. NOT YOU.

The microscope mentioned is a good way to look for this as a possible cause. Another way is to take some Megs #7 or perhaps some 205 and put it on a few of the spots and leave it sit over night. If the spots have gotten bigger(Take pics to compare because the difference is really hard to tell) then you can be assured that this is your situation which requires removing the clear and a proper respray!
Click to expand...

*SIGH* wow...thats deep lol. The only question i have on what you said is, why would this happen NOW and not when the painters buffed out the paint (they did it twice) AND he had someone else buff it out last year. They all used rotaries. Now we come in and only use DA's and these things pop up....any idea why that would happen?

Flash Gordon said:
I've never heard of anyone having their car re-cleared. Did the painter remove all the glass/trim? Why didn't he just sand the factory clear?

Oh yea. When he takes it back to the painter, he's going to blame you for the damage more then likely
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Well i might get the blame but the owner seems to be on my side...thats what matters to me.

As for WHY he had it re-cleared...first off, sanding FACTORY clear is pretty much a no no due to the fact that it is so thin. So trying to remove the orange peel from factory would leave the rest of the clear at a dangerous level.

Secondly, he wanted some custom stripes and an emblem PAINTED on the car (not vinyl stuff) and then cleared over so that way it would protect the custom paint.

Twister said:
I've seen reclearing done on factory paint for show cars. I think it's to improve the finish. Why not just wet sand? I can't say.

I have small specs on my door from clear pulling away from the base coat but I don't think it looks the same to me. Mine looks cloudy and I think these spots look white.
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Yeah they are white. The other reason as to why he recleared it and not just wet sand is because reclears are THICKER than factory so that way it can be corrected more times (if needed) without worrying about the clear wearing down...and yes to improve the finish since factory has orange peel on it.



I think someone else asked if it has set in the sun before...and to answer that question, yes it has. He's taken it to other shows...and between Az and Cali, it has had PLENTY of sun...which is how we got to detail this thing to begin with because between spray wax wipe downs and 'dusters' along with a bad buff out before...the car was in rough shape.
 
*SIGH* wow...thats deep lol. The only question i have on what you said is, why would this happen NOW and not when the painters buffed out the paint (they did it twice) AND he had someone else buff it out last year. They all used rotaries. Now we come in and only use DA's and these things pop up....any idea why that would happen?

First off when they did it after it was sprayed, the clear was softer and more pliable. Secondly, it's the wiggling effect and it doesn't always happen on the first or second polish. And a DA has more of that effect than a rotary. It woulda happened with a rotary also, maybe not this time but next polish chances are.
 
It's gotta be something topical man. I highly doubt it's a paint defect...I saw the pics after you did your correction. There were no spots like that...and they certainly would have been exposed.

It looks to me like over spray. I know you can't feel anything...but that doesn't necessarily matter. Have you tried using whatever product you would use to remove paint transfer? I use something similar to acetone. I would give that a shot. Just use something paint safe.

Another thing you can try...is claying with an APC or something of the sort. I've dealt with certain types of over spray, and sometimes the APC will help break down whatever contaminant it may be while you are claying. I know some may say this is against the "rules". But, I've done it many times...and the paint polishes out nicely afterwards. Sometimes you gotta bend rules to get results.
 
Do you think he might have sprayed something on it? I saw someone spray windex on their paint to try to use it as a QD and it spotted similar to this. I think that car was wet sanded to remove the spots.

Maybe the transporter did something similar or maybe it happened on the street
 
I'm starting to think like twister. In the last picture those spots look elongated. Are there any on any plastic; glass; etc?
 
Kristopher1129 said:
It's gotta be something topical man. I highly doubt it's a paint defect...I saw the pics after you did your correction. There were no spots like that...and they certainly would have been exposed.

It looks to me like over spray. I know you can't feel anything...but that doesn't necessarily matter. Have you tried using whatever product you would use to remove paint transfer? I use something similar to acetone. I would give that a shot. Just use something paint safe.

Another thing you can try...is claying with an APC or something of the sort. I've dealt with certain types of over spray, and sometimes the APC will help break down whatever contaminant it may be while you are claying. I know some may say this is against the "rules". But, I've done it many times...and the paint polishes out nicely afterwards. Sometimes you gotta bend rules to get results.
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I used APC, bug and tar and diluted alcohol and it didnt do anything. I didn't try claying with the APC (i have before lol) but i did try claying with the alcohol to no avail.

I might try something like acetone or spirits on it. WE THINK it is this damn Artillery Fungus now...because i talked to him earlier and he told me he parked it on the street, went to wash it and WHILE he was washing it he noticed the spots...but at THAT time the spots were black...and after he washed them away they left white spots. So it LOOKS like maybe these little f***ers had enough time to etch the paint even though the main spore was removed....still looking into it more though....

Twister said:
Do you think he might have sprayed something on it? I saw someone spray windex on their paint to try to use it as a QD and it spotted similar to this. I think that car was wet sanded to remove the spots.

Maybe the transporter did something similar or maybe it happened on the street
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Well, if you saw the swirls in the paint...THAT is what the transporter did to it lol...and THOSE were the light ones. He really ###### up the paint because apparently, after the car is loaded into the trailer, you CANT open the door...so he has to climb out the window...and it looks like he raked his foot across the door as there are a few nice deep scratches he left there.

I know he didn't use anything like windex on it lol...he actually asked me for ideas of what to use becasue the QD he was using was leaving swirls after he wiped it down at shows...he finally decided not to touch it at all until he was able to just give it a proper wash after the show. Plus the fact that these spots are like PERFECT circles..no drips or 'splatter' marks like a spray of some sort would make. Its like something attached to it.

Jimmie said:
I'm starting to think like twister. In the last picture those spots look elongated. Are there any on any plastic; glass; etc?
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Nothing on the plastic that i could see...or on the silver paint. Seems to have just hit the black. But again back to this damn Artillery Fungus...apparently it likes bright surfaces...usually silver or white paint...but this black paint was VERY reflective when we were finished so if something bright was reflecting on it....the reflection could have caught the attention of the fungus and thats why it sprung up on it.

Due to the fact that he said the INITIAL dots were black really has me starting to rule out clear failure of any kind unless someone else has an idea as to why it would appear black initially, but after washed would leave white spots...perfect little white spots. I'd think if the clear had bubbled up that it would have shown and clear or white right away, not as black.
 
Has he tried wet sanding one of the spots to see if it can be removed? If there is an abundance of clear this should not be a great risk and if this is his show car he may need a respray as a last resort option anyway. Wet sanding will indicate just how deep the spot is into the paint and what it may take to correct.
 
jfelbab said:
Has he tried wet sanding one of the spots to see if it can be removed? If there is an abundance of clear this should not be a great risk and if this is his show car he may need a respray as a last resort option anyway. Wet sanding will indicate just how deep the spot is into the paint and what it may take to correct.
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I'm holding that as my last resort, but it is surely an option. Its just the spots on the edges that make me nervous to wet sand...but we'll see.

I appreciate everyones feed back and hope one of these suggestions will stick lol
 
Just finished looking over the thread you did on the Camaro, AMAZING job on an AMAZING car!!!

Keep us updated on how this problem turns out.
 
Just for reference. This is clear coat failure. Started as a couple spots but has become much more as you can see. Click on pics to see full size.



close up
 
Twister said:
Just for reference. This is clear coat failure. Started as a couple spots but has become much more as you can see. Click on pics to see full size.



close up
Click to expand...

That looks more to me like something called pinholing. It isn't necessarily a clear coat failure...but more of a poor job done either during the paint process, or prep. Painting over wet primer, or spraying too heavy of a coat can cause a similar defect.

I think Wills issue is something very different from this.
 
Kristopher1129 said:
That looks more to me like something called pinholing. It isn't necessarily a clear coat failure...but more of a poor job done either during the paint process, or prep. Painting over wet primer, or spraying too heavy of a coat can cause a similar defect.

I think Wills issue is something very different from this.
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I'm not a painter so I can't say for sure what caused it but I believe poor prep. I have a other spot where a dime size finally pulled away so I chipped it off and touched up the edges to try to hide it. Base coat in that area looked good and smooth.


I don't think it's the same issue but I was just posting because I mentioned in a previous post that the spots looked different than the clear pulling away from the base coat on my car. I still believe something was put on the Camaro's paint that caused those spots.
 
Are the spots dotted around the vehicle as a whole, any pattern to it? -
I believe you said yes and no, and no spots on anything else. and it started to show on very warm sunny day.
I'd dare to say it's a defective clear coat application, maybe multiple coats applied to quickly over another, or the original surface wasn't prepped properly, which is causing the gassing out (pin holing) you are now seeing. It might get worse (more spots) with more aging to the (u/v- sun cured) clear coat. You have to get that little magnifier scope and have a painter look at it.
Pretty nice car, hope you get it figured out.
 
julian said:
Are the spots dotted around the vehicle as a whole, any pattern to it? -
I believe you said yes and no, and no spots on anything else. and it started to show on very warm sunny day.
I'd dare to say it's a defective clear coat application, maybe multiple coats applied to quickly over another, or the original surface wasn't prepped properly, which is causing the gassing out (pin holing) you are now seeing. It might get worse (more spots) with more aging to the (u/v- sun cured) clear coat. You have to get that little magnifier scope and have a painter look at it.
Pretty nice car, hope you get it figured out.
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It had been in the sun many a times before that day and no problems, thats why im shying away from clear coat problems. Im still keeping it in the back of my head, but the fact that he SAW black spots that he was able to WASH off ...and then after the wash is when the white spots appeared, is why i think something (sap,fungus,insect) got on it and left those marks and that it wasn't an issue with the clear at all.
 
Can he go back to where he had it parked and check out the tree and ground? I 2nd the fungus i have seen the aftermath from people trying to get it off before bringing in the car for some help. Crap is beyond a pita to remove. I can't say though on a dark colored car as ive only seen it on the light colors. Any-who, if it is indeed the fungus you should be able to find the blobs still at the parking spot.

Only thing that would lead me to think its something other than the fungus is if the owner didnt have a hard time getting the the spots off during the wash while they were still black. If they just came off like it was nothing out of the normal then i have no ideas left.
 
i have something similair on my car after wetsanding a scratch. i wetsanded, compounded and noticed these whitish spots coming out. interestingly enough, i believe this panel was re-cleared. i figured i had gone too deep in wetsanding, i might try to wetsand it again just to see what happens.

id definately try to wetsand one of those and see what happens. even if u make it worse hell have to get the car repainted either way. tbh im not sure you have another option other than wetsanding.

let us know if wetsanding does the trick :dblthumb2:

i found this online, maybe itll help:

http://www.carpaintdepot.com/docs/basf/Paint_Defects.pdf

ps, are you insured?
 
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