Women suing Honda for bad gas mileage..

I think she has about as good a chance of winning that case as I do winning the lottery.

Personally I feel EPA ratings should be based on how real people drive. So I get why she is angry. But she really Doesn't have a case...
 
Honda has already acknowledged the issue with their batteries that causes more reliance on the gas engine over time, which of course affects the advertised mileage.

A settlement of the class action lawsuit has already been reached, with the lawyers getting the bulk of the monies (approx $8MM), while each owner gets about $100 if they choose to settle.

This owner is a former lawyer though, and is not accepting the settlement. By taking her case through small claims court, she cuts out the lawyers and can get a bigger settlement for herself.

Many people are watching this case...
 
tw33k2514 said:
I think she has about as good a chance of winning that case as I do winning the lottery.

Personally I feel EPA ratings should be based on how real people drive. So I get why she is angry. But she really Doesn't have a case...
Click to expand...

I agree. Many people I ride with or see driving have bad driving styles on the thruways therefore why this case could have been started.

embolism said:
Honda has already acknowledged the issue with their batteries that causes more reliance on the gas engine over time, which of course affects the advertised mileage.

A settlement of the class action lawsuit has already been reached, with the lawyers getting the bulk of the monies (approx $8MM), while each owner gets about $100 if they choose to settle.

This owner is a former lawyer though, and is not accepting the settlement. By taking her case through small claims court, she cuts out the lawyers and can get a bigger settlement for herself.

Many people are watching this case...
Click to expand...

Didn't know that Honda already addressed the battery issue. That could play a role in this case.
 
This lawsuit and ones similar to bug the hell out of me. Why has our society found it necessary to sue every and anyone? Why can we not just accept daily life inconveniences and discrepancies and go on with our daily lives? Am I saying lay down and let companies and other people walk all over us? No not at all, however I am saying there is more important things in life to be worried about then not getting the ESTIMATED MPG that a car company claims.

When we were little and did something wrong we were pacified and excused because we were little, we were growing up, we were learning. Once we became adults (we all were excited when that day came) we not only inherited freedom and the ability to do whatever we desired but we also attained more responsibility for our actions.

I think people who file claims like this have an ulterior motive, I do not think its for justice or for showing the company they are wrong or to keep companies honest. I think it boils down to the attention these people get for these lawsuits and the monetary compensation.

This lady is a perfect example, if it was for the "principal" (which lately supposedly is everyones "just cause" (I am raising my BS flag to that too btw)) she would have entered the class-action suit and got awarded her measly $100 or whatever. She was not happy with that and wanted more money, wanted more retribution for her inconvenience. Guess what lady after the first tank that you realized you did not get the MPG you wanted you should have traded it in. Instead you decided to keep driving it and then complain about it. You cannot even argue the point of her not having the money to spend on trading in the vehicle because if you have the money to spend an extra 7 or 8g on a "green version" then you have the money. Why in their right minds would Honda allow her to trade in the car for a different one? I am sure they would be glad to do it at current market value but she probably wants what she originally paid but hearing about the battery diminishing (which by the way princess if you ever owned anything battery operated, you know this) which all batteries do as they get older, that car probably has some age on it.

Also, car companies watch their butts they say EPA estimated, an estimation is not a concrete number, semantics. Im sorry its lawsuits like this or false insurance claims, false workman comp claims, unemployment claims, all this stuff is why our economy is so bad. Its easy to blame the other guy to point the finger but when we cost the company millions of dollars or the govt millions of dollars, that money has to come from somewhere. It comes from the customers because the company has to increase its costs to maintain profitability to sustain life.

Its all about accountability and us accepting less and less every day. Its sad such a simple and basic concept can be abused and forgotten so quickly when we are having a bad day...
 
Tundra_10 said:
This lawsuit and ones similar to bug the hell out of me. Why has our society found it necessary to sue every and anyone? Why can we not just accept daily life inconveniences and discrepancies and go on with our daily lives? Am I saying lay down and let companies and other people walk all over us? No not at all, however I am saying there is more important things in life to be worried about then not getting the ESTIMATED MPG that a car company claims.

When we were little and did something wrong we were pacified and excused because we were little, we were growing up, we were learning. Once we became adults (we all were excited when that day came) we not only inherited freedom and the ability to do whatever we desired but we also attained more responsibility for our actions.

I think people who file claims like this have an ulterior motive, I do not think its for justice or for showing the company they are wrong or to keep companies honest. I think it boils down to the attention these people get for these lawsuits and the monetary compensation.

This lady is a perfect example, if it was for the "principal" (which lately supposedly is everyones "just cause" (I am raising my BS flag to that too btw)) she would have entered the class-action suit and got awarded her measly $100 or whatever. She was not happy with that and wanted more money, wanted more retribution for her inconvenience. Guess what lady after the first tank that you realized you did not get the MPG you wanted you should have traded it in. Instead you decided to keep driving it and then complain about it. You cannot even argue the point of her not having the money to spend on trading in the vehicle because if you have the money to spend an extra 7 or 8g on a "green version" then you have the money. Why in their right minds would Honda allow her to trade in the car for a different one? I am sure they would be glad to do it at current market value but she probably wants what she originally paid but hearing about the battery diminishing (which by the way princess if you ever owned anything battery operated, you know this) which all batteries do as they get older, that car probably has some age on it.

Also, car companies watch their butts they say EPA estimated, an estimation is not a concrete number, semantics. Im sorry its lawsuits like this or false insurance claims, false workman comp claims, unemployment claims, all this stuff is why our economy is so bad. Its easy to blame the other guy to point the finger but when we cost the company millions of dollars or the govt millions of dollars, that money has to come from somewhere. It comes from the customers because the company has to increase its costs to maintain profitability to sustain life.

Its all about accountability and us accepting less and less every day. Its sad such a simple and basic concept can be abused and forgotten so quickly when we are having a bad day...
Click to expand...

Couldn't have put it any better. The thing that annoys me is that people I know go by what the Average MPG computer says. The instant MPG display is a lot better but I still don't think either one is very accurate. So I am wondering if this lady is reading her fuel mileage computer and sees it says 30 MPG and assumes that is what she gets. Or if she actually did it the old fashion way with a full tank of gas and using your odometer :)
 
The MPG issue annoys me to no end, as well. My complaint is that the government wants to put all kinds of requirements on car companies; however, I can drive my same exact car on the interstate and get at least 10mpg better mileage than in this town with zero traffic flow that the state and county government people designed. And all they do is continue to add stop lights, which only hurts mileage even worse. I can try to drive as efficiently as possible, but I have a limited amount of control. I'm actually impressed that I get as close to the advertised averages as I do. I'm far from a Honda or auto industry advocate, but I don't know how any car company could be expected to estimate with pin-point accuracy how a certain model will perform given all the conditions it will be driven in.
 
Tundra_10 said:
This lawsuit and ones similar to bug the hell out of me. Why has our society found it necessary to sue every and anyone? Why can we not just accept daily life inconveniences and discrepancies and go on with our daily lives? Am I saying lay down and let companies and other people walk all over us? No not at all, however I am saying there is more important things in life to be worried about then not getting the ESTIMATED MPG that a car company claims.

When we were little and did something wrong we were pacified and excused because we were little, we were growing up, we were learning. Once we became adults (we all were excited when that day came) we not only inherited freedom and the ability to do whatever we desired but we also attained more responsibility for our actions.

I think people who file claims like this have an ulterior motive, I do not think its for justice or for showing the company they are wrong or to keep companies honest. I think it boils down to the attention these people get for these lawsuits and the monetary compensation.

This lady is a perfect example, if it was for the "principal" (which lately supposedly is everyones "just cause" (I am raising my BS flag to that too btw)) she would have entered the class-action suit and got awarded her measly $100 or whatever. She was not happy with that and wanted more money, wanted more retribution for her inconvenience. Guess what lady after the first tank that you realized you did not get the MPG you wanted you should have traded it in. Instead you decided to keep driving it and then complain about it. You cannot even argue the point of her not having the money to spend on trading in the vehicle because if you have the money to spend an extra 7 or 8g on a "green version" then you have the money. Why in their right minds would Honda allow her to trade in the car for a different one? I am sure they would be glad to do it at current market value but she probably wants what she originally paid but hearing about the battery diminishing (which by the way princess if you ever owned anything battery operated, you know this) which all batteries do as they get older, that car probably has some age on it.

Also, car companies watch their butts they say EPA estimated, an estimation is not a concrete number, semantics. Im sorry its lawsuits like this or false insurance claims, false workman comp claims, unemployment claims, all this stuff is why our economy is so bad. Its easy to blame the other guy to point the finger but when we cost the company millions of dollars or the govt millions of dollars, that money has to come from somewhere. It comes from the customers because the company has to increase its costs to maintain profitability to sustain life.

Its all about accountability and us accepting less and less every day. Its sad such a simple and basic concept can be abused and forgotten so quickly when we are having a bad day...
Click to expand...

Thank you! :dblthumb2:
 
Tundra_10 said:
This lawsuit and ones similar to bug the hell out of me. Why has our society found it necessary to sue every and anyone? Why can we not just accept daily life inconveniences and discrepancies and go on with our daily lives? Am I saying lay down and let companies and other people walk all over us? No not at all, however I am saying there is more important things in life to be worried about then not getting the ESTIMATED MPG that a car company claims.

When we were little and did something wrong we were pacified and excused because we were little, we were growing up, we were learning. Once we became adults (we all were excited when that day came) we not only inherited freedom and the ability to do whatever we desired but we also attained more responsibility for our actions.

I think people who file claims like this have an ulterior motive, I do not think its for justice or for showing the company they are wrong or to keep companies honest. I think it boils down to the attention these people get for these lawsuits and the monetary compensation.

This lady is a perfect example, if it was for the "principal" (which lately supposedly is everyones "just cause" (I am raising my BS flag to that too btw)) she would have entered the class-action suit and got awarded her measly $100 or whatever. She was not happy with that and wanted more money, wanted more retribution for her inconvenience. Guess what lady after the first tank that you realized you did not get the MPG you wanted you should have traded it in. Instead you decided to keep driving it and then complain about it. You cannot even argue the point of her not having the money to spend on trading in the vehicle because if you have the money to spend an extra 7 or 8g on a "green version" then you have the money. Why in their right minds would Honda allow her to trade in the car for a different one? I am sure they would be glad to do it at current market value but she probably wants what she originally paid but hearing about the battery diminishing (which by the way princess if you ever owned anything battery operated, you know this) which all batteries do as they get older, that car probably has some age on it.

Also, car companies watch their butts they say EPA estimated, an estimation is not a concrete number, semantics. Im sorry its lawsuits like this or false insurance claims, false workman comp claims, unemployment claims, all this stuff is why our economy is so bad. Its easy to blame the other guy to point the finger but when we cost the company millions of dollars or the govt millions of dollars, that money has to come from somewhere. It comes from the customers because the company has to increase its costs to maintain profitability to sustain life.

Its all about accountability and us accepting less and less every day. Its sad such a simple and basic concept can be abused and forgotten so quickly when we are having a bad day...
Click to expand...

I am the first to admit that society in general is quick to "sue" and that litigation for everything seems to be the reaction of "du-jour" BUT, look at it this way.

YOU droped down $24k plus on something and it DID NOT live up to the #1 reason why you purchased the item (mileage). We are not talking about the quality of the stereo here we are talking about the #1 selling point for this vehicle. In regard to EPA estimates - 50MPG (as advertised) vs. 20MPG (what this person claims she is getting) is a huge disparity! One that variation due to estimation can not account for.

Don't get me wrong, it sickens me to see how quick people are to sue but I'm not sure if I feel that way on this one
 
I wonder if her driving style could have anything to do with it.

A friend of mine bought a used Honda Impulse Hybrid three months ago. It's a 2005 and is in perfect condition. He has gotten a low of 42mpg and a high of 62mpg since he got it.

And I have an old beater Toyota that I have done a few MPG tests on.

Worst mileage. 20.22mpg. All street driving, every start was a Formula One race, and the AC was on all the time.

Best mileage. 40.25mpg. All freeway driving at night, no AC, windows always up. Very gentle starts, never drove faster than 60mph and never encountered any traffic.

So style of driving can halve or double a cars mileage.
 
dont those hybrids switch from electric to gas when they exceed 70mph or something like that ? people i know that have them have told me that if they go over that particular speed and it switches to gas that the mileage goes to hell pretty quick. shes probably got a lead foot.
 
Deep Gloss Auto Salon said:
YOU droped down $24k plus on something and it DID NOT live up to the #1 reason why you purchased the item (mileage). We are not talking about the quality of the stereo here we are talking about the #1 selling point for this vehicle. In regard to EPA estimates - 50MPG (as advertised) vs. 20MPG (what this person claims she is getting) is a huge disparity! One that variation due to estimation can not account for.

Don't get me wrong, it sickens me to see how quick people are to sue but I'm not sure if I feel that way on this one
Click to expand...

I completely and whole-heartedly agree with you. There is comprehension of the truth, implication of application and desired results, assumed and expected performance and so many other factors as to why we consume and purchase different things. Companies have (to a certain extent) an obligation to uphold and present their offering and product in a ethical way and should stand by their product if it fails.

However, what proof has this woman shown (which by the way I would love to see) to prove or disprove the numbers Honda says the car should produce? What if she is doing a lot of highway driving but as others have commented she is driving erratically, what if she is doing a lot of city driving, what if she lives where its very windy and causes more drag on her vehicle? There are so many real-world factors that could cause problems. Heck, what if she is not keeping her tires inflated or not keeping up with vehicle maintenance like air filters or oil changes? What if she is using ethanol or even premium if the car is actually calling for regular?

I am going to stand my ground on this one until I hear more to prove me otherwise. Honda did not become as popular and as respectful as they are because they sold inferior products. I do not know much about the class-action suit but I bet they figured it was going to cost them less to settle,or just assume the loss then it was to fight it.

Unfortunately for Honda is that its a large high-profile company and if someone has a problem with a company such as this we tend to always feel compassion for the "little guy" and wave our fingers at the "big guy".

So as I agree with you that the difference in numbers are huge, that a car of that caliber should be able to provide a higher MPG, especially being such a specialty vehicle, however I would like to see more information regarding her driving habits, the condition of the car and how she is collecting the data before I side with her.
 
Tundra_10 said:
I completely and whole-heartedly agree with you. There is comprehension of the truth, implication of application and desired results, assumed and expected performance and so many other factors as to why we consume and purchase different things. Companies have (to a certain extent) an obligation to uphold and present their offering and product in a ethical way and should stand by their product if it fails.

However, what proof has this woman shown (which by the way I would love to see) to prove or disprove the numbers Honda says the car should produce? What if she is doing a lot of highway driving but as others have commented she is driving erratically, what if she is doing a lot of city driving, what if she lives where its very windy and causes more drag on her vehicle? There are so many real-world factors that could cause problems. Heck, what if she is not keeping her tires inflated or not keeping up with vehicle maintenance like air filters or oil changes? What if she is using ethanol or even premium if the car is actually calling for regular?

I am going to stand my ground on this one until I hear more to prove me otherwise. Honda did not become as popular and as respectful as they are because they sold inferior products. I do not know much about the class-action suit but I bet they figured it was going to cost them less to settle,or just assume the loss then it was to fight it.

Unfortunately for Honda is that its a large high-profile company and if someone has a problem with a company such as this we tend to always feel compassion for the "little guy" and wave our fingers at the "big guy".

So as I agree with you that the difference in numbers are huge, that a car of that caliber should be able to provide a higher MPG, especially being such a specialty vehicle, however I would like to see more information regarding her driving habits, the condition of the car and how she is collecting the data before I side with her.
Click to expand...

I agree - she bears the burden of prooof that her driving conditions / habits / style /vehicle maint. are not over and above what the estimated MPG were based on.

If she is able to demonstrate these variables and if they are consistent with what is recomended for the 50MPG claim from Honda then and only then should he suit carrying any weight.

BTW: funny sig!
 
Maybe her beef should be with the EPA. It is their testing methods the car mfrs have to follow.
 
Deep Gloss Auto Salon said:
I am the first to admit that society in general is quick to "sue" and that litigation for everything seems to be the reaction of "du-jour" BUT, look at it this way.

YOU droped down $24k plus on something and it DID NOT live up to the #1 reason why you purchased the item (mileage). We are not talking about the quality of the stereo here we are talking about the #1 selling point for this vehicle. In regard to EPA estimates - 50MPG (as advertised) vs. 20MPG (what this person claims she is getting) is a huge disparity! One that variation due to estimation can not account for.

Don't get me wrong, it sickens me to see how quick people are to sue but I'm not sure if I feel that way on this one
Click to expand...
I'm with you. I hate sue people happy, but this lady is legit.
  1. It's a recognized issue.
  2. She's legitimately not getting what is stated, or anywhere within the "as high as" and "as low as" numbers.
  3. She spent money on a product that did not perform as advertised. While it's easy to say suck it up this isn't a 20 dollar wax we're talking about, it is a 20k+ vehicle. She paid a premium to save money in the long run. Not to get something that isn't doing what it should, and it's completely unreasonable to think that SHE needs to take the hit by trading it in because honda screwed the pooch.
  4. She's tried being reasonable and has tried negotiating out of court to simply swap out her vehicle, as well as for smaller sums than she is currently asking.
  5. She's only asking for enough money to offset costs incurred. She isn't looking for some ridiculously over inflated sum.

Is what she's doing that unreasonable?
 
Tundra_10 said:
I completely and whole-heartedly agree with you. There is comprehension of the truth, implication of application and desired results, assumed and expected performance and so many other factors as to why we consume and purchase different things. Companies have (to a certain extent) an obligation to uphold and present their offering and product in a ethical way and should stand by their product if it fails.

However, what proof has this woman shown (which by the way I would love to see) to prove or disprove the numbers Honda says the car should produce? What if she is doing a lot of highway driving but as others have commented she is driving erratically, what if she is doing a lot of city driving, what if she lives where its very windy and causes more drag on her vehicle? There are so many real-world factors that could cause problems. Heck, what if she is not keeping her tires inflated or not keeping up with vehicle maintenance like air filters or oil changes? What if she is using ethanol or even premium if the car is actually calling for regular?

I am going to stand my ground on this one until I hear more to prove me otherwise. Honda did not become as popular and as respectful as they are because they sold inferior products. I do not know much about the class-action suit but I bet they figured it was going to cost them less to settle,or just assume the loss then it was to fight it.

Unfortunately for Honda is that its a large high-profile company and if someone has a problem with a company such as this we tend to always feel compassion for the "little guy" and wave our fingers at the "big guy".

So as I agree with you that the difference in numbers are huge, that a car of that caliber should be able to provide a higher MPG, especially being such a specialty vehicle, however I would like to see more information regarding her driving habits, the condition of the car and how she is collecting the data before I side with her.
Click to expand...
If Honda wanted to they could plug into her computer and pull out ALL sorts of data such as average speed, average rate of acceleration, time idling, etc... This isn't a 4 barrel from the 70's it's a hybrid with computers more advanced than you could even imagine. The data IS available and it's quite likely that Honda is choosing to keep the data locked up. It's not uncommon for a manufacturer to be aware of issues and do nothing about it.
 
She is just another sue happy American citizen that wants everything for free.

That is as dumb as the woman that sued McDonald's about spilling the hot coffee in her lap and she claimed there was no warning label!!
Hello, Coffee is not served cold!!!
 
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