106FF question

[budman3]

I certainly hope thats the case. Its been suggested that the left over residue actually does something for the paint, and those left over oils shouldn't be removed. Its also been suggested that alcohol wipe downs are bad because they dry out the clear and remove the necessary oils.

Paint doesn't need any oils to replace or lubricate anything. The problem with alcohol and dawn washes is that they dry out trim and rubber seals prematurely.

 

[Russecu]

ive used it and after polishing each panel . then i did an alcohol wipe down . and there are no fillers at all!!!!just a perfect finish

If you did the wipedown right after polishing then it probrably removed any leftover product. The perfect finish is that you must have worked the polish completely and removed the imperfections.

Guys, every polish leaves something behind! The polish residue doesn't evaporate and a MF towel can't pick up all of the polish. Some of the residue from the polish will settle in the vally of swirls and sometimes a MF towel will not pick all of that up. That is why it is nice to do a S&W or alcohol wipedown to get all of the residue off of the paint. So it may seem like products are filling where its simply left over product that you didn't wipe off.... However, there are products on the market with intentional fillers....

I was thinking this today. That if the polish or imperfections are not properly polished/worked then they could be prone to gathering in/hiding the imperfections from products used. The product has to go somewhere. Let think here like Budman said using the mf towel to remove the residue will not remove it all. Like if you were using a glaze or something to hide intentionally then when you buffed the residue off then it leaves some fillers behind. Then the mf isn't removing everything. I guess you can say the same with a wax. Maybe I am thinking too deeply. But I do have the new SunCom plan (I think that is the right commercial)

Paint doesn't need any oils to replace or lubricate anything. The problem with alcohol and dawn washes is that they dry out trim and rubber seals prematurely.

I read this also that paint doesn't have oils that need to be replaced. I think it was Anthony O. that posted this.

 

[THENIZZZEIL]

which products intentionally fill swirls...id like to try it and see its effectiveness
so if you fill in swirls and then hit it with a sealer + wax what are the chances of that bonding for a good amount of time?

thanks!

 

[budman3]

I guess you can say the same with a wax. Maybe I am thinking too deeply.

You are correct. If there are any swirls (vally's in a sense) in the paint before you wax, the wax will fill in a little bit, to reduce the appearance of swirls. The thicker the wax the more it'll fill, IMO.

Zaino calls their sealants a polish yet they still have filling capabilities. The swirls / marring just get filled in with the sealant to make it seem like the swirls are gone. It's just that with Zaino, it won't wipe off with a QD like polish residue would.

TheNizzeil, Go to a car dealer and see what they use ... they are notorious for using products with tons of fillers. I personally don't care for products that contain actual fillers because it is simply false advertising. That is if you totally skip out on polishing and use fillers because you are lazy and want to save time and money. However, if you polish the paint as much as you feel comfortable, using a product with fillers to fill in any remaining swirls to achieve the best look possible then that's fine with me...

 

[D]

Paint doesn't need any oils to replace or lubricate anything. The problem with alcohol and dawn washes is that they dry out trim and rubber seals prematurely.

Thats what I thought, but some will argue differently.

 

[SpoiledMan]

Zaino calls their sealants a polish yet they still have filling capabilities. The swirls / marring just get filled in with the sealant to make it seem like the swirls are gone. It's just that with Zaino, it won't wipe off with a QD like polish residue would.

Not exactly true. Z5 is *supposed* to fill in light imperfections but doesn't do so until many many coats have been applied. It's easier to just polish them out in the first place.

 

[TOGWT]

...I read this also that paint doesn't have oils that need to be replaced. I think it was Anthony O. that posted this.

Water-based paints contain some oils that are used for paint surface lubrication.Once they have done what they were intended for there is no need to replace them. (paint cannot eat, therefore it doesn't need 'feeding') despite what Zymol marketing would have you believe.

The older solvent-based paints contained a % of oils and replacement was required to avoid the resin drying out, these paints also required a time for the solvents to outgas (so called - paints requirement to 'breath')

In summary; paints don't require feeding nor do they breath

The occasional use of a detergent wash (Dawn) will not have a detrimental effect on a paint surface or vinyl / rubber trim. Having said that other than a point of controversy that creates publicity, that was instigated by someone with thirty plus years of vehicle painting / paint systems. I see absolutely no purpose for using this type of product to prep a paint surface when there are far superior products purpose made for this,

 

[trhland]

thanks for that togwt. i believe that with detailing we must watch out for hyped up products and fancy marketing!!

 

[richy]

Water-based paints contain some oils that are used for paint surface lubrication.Once they have done what they were intended for there is no need to replace them. (paint cannot eat, therefore it doesn't need 'feeding') despite what Zymol marketing would have you believe.

The older solvent-based paints contained a % of oils and replacement was required to avoid the resin drying out, these paints also required a time for the solvents to outgas (so called - paints requirement to 'breath')

In summary; paints don't require feeding nor do they breath

The occasional use of a detergent wash (Dawn) will not have a detrimental effect on a paint surface or vinyl / rubber trim. Having said that other than a point of controversy that creates publicity, that was instigated by someone with thirty plus years of vehicle painting / paint systems. I see absolutely no purpose for using this type of product to prep a paint surface when there are far superior products purpose made for this,

TOGWT...your posts are always so informative..thanks!!

 

[Absolute Detail]

I think you will find that the menzerna line carrys no fillers I moved over to menzerna a few months back and cant say enough about it and I thought optimum was good and still do having polished around 26 cars the last week I can safely say via cyclo or buffer this product is the best around at the moment .
Going back to fillers there is a need for them sometimes on my older Mercedes for one straight black is very hard to get perfect so fillers here and there are ok in my book when the job needs it.

 

[Atlas]

Saw it mentioned earlier but only in passing. How does the 106ff compare to the PO85RD (not the SIP version, the other one, so confusing these days) in both correction and gloss? They seem to be designed for similar tasks?

 

[D]

106FF has more cut then 85rd, both give the same level of gloss, maybe a slight nod to 85rd in some instances.

 

[Atlas]

So SIP followed by 85rd, no need/advantage to picking up 106ff/fa for now?
Thanks D&D

 

[D]

You could go that route. Im going to use 85rd for my car, but I need 106 for cars with light imperfections that would be too much for 85rd.

 

[Atlas]

Gotcha. Guess I'll pick up a bottle and try it out. One more favor? :cheers:
Please check out my thread about 2 below this one in this section. Not sure what to order and don't want to take this one OT.
Thank you.
Atlas

 

[dontsleeponit]

lots of good info from everyone in this thread, big thanks to everyone

got my 106ff today, I will post my results with it whenever it is I can get around to using it.

 

[TOGWT]

ive used it and after polishing each panel . then i did an alcohol wipe down . and there are no fillers at all!!!!just a perfect finish

From paint renovation / Detailer who's opinion I have a lot of respect for -

Quote: I know everyone has there own opinion on this and think people that say it has fillers just do not know what they are talking about, but these issues were actually from TOP pros that will remain nameless and they know what they are doing. They had contacted me knowing I have extreme knowledge in paint correction. Trust me....they are not crazy... they really are getting filling capabilities and it's not just SIP/106. It just shows up faster with mainly 106 and there is a reason why! Rydawg -

 

[budman3]

TOGWT, you have taken that quote out of context... you should have added the first two lines as well ... specifically stating "I know a lot of people here claim that most polishes do not have fillers and most do not, but the solvents/lubes will however act as fillers on certain paints and there is a reason why" which is basically what I said earlier, about the polish not being 100% removed when wiped off with a MF towel. It's not like Menzerna adds a special ingredient to fill in swirls and not remove them ... but if the polish is not worked in long enough or doesn't break down 100%, then the nature of the polish (solvents and oils) will settle in the swirls and wouldn't be removed with a MF towel. An alcohol wipedown will remove this residue giving you the actual finish.

 

[dontsleeponit]

hey guys, any harm in spraying the panel with 50/50 alcohol before you initially wipe away the polish residue, instead of another wipe down after wiping the residue away, to kinda save a step...

if that made any sense haha

 

[budman3]

hey guys, any harm in spraying the panel with 50/50 alcohol before you initially wipe away the polish residue, instead of another wipe down after wiping the residue away, to kinda save a step...

if that made any sense haha

If I remember correctly that is what Menzerna says to do on the bottle of Intensive and Final Polish to aid in product removal. There is no harm but you may need an additional MF towel or two because it'll probably get saturated with the water & alcohol mix along with polish residue.