Coating WITHOUT Correction??

[custmsprty]

Prep is the key to a beautiful finish - do you not know that? This has nothing to do with the customer. A polished paint without protection will beat a just waxed finish. It is not only your job to educate the customer, as a Detailer, you are obligated to do the job right. There is no lsp out there at any price that doesn't perform better after a polishing step.
Most people think that "wax" is what makes paint shiny. If you are just taking advantage of their ignorance so that you can save 20 minutes by not doing at least a quick "once over" polishing step, if that is the case, you are 100% correct.

I don't know about you but I couldn't sleep well if I skipped a step on a customer's car that I would do on my own car. Especially something like a polishing step. It is the step that makes or breaks a detail.

A quick 20 minute once over polishing step? Please by all means post us up a video of you performing your 20 minute quick polishing step procedure. I for one would love to see that.

 

[tdekany]

He doesn't need me to defend him, but GSKR has polished a few cars in his time. You have no idea who your'e speaking to. LMFAO!

The other thing is not everyone who comes here to elarn does this for a living or even part time. Thier are plenty of memebers who come here to learn how to do take care of their personal vehicles. This isn't a "pros" only forum.

I am glad that you find the topic funny. I find it very sad - I thought this place was what it used to be, but it is evident that providing the best at any price point is no longer a top priority. As long as it is good enough, it is good enough. As far as your previous post, how can you even compare a free new car with a coat of spray wax slapped on it to someone paying for a detail? Are you being serious or were you just joking? I do have to thank you for a good laugh. Are you a comedian? You seem very funny.

 

[custmsprty]

I am glad that you find the topic funny. I find it very sad - I thought this place was what it used to be, but it is evident that providing the best at any price point is no longer a top priority. As long as it is good enough, it is good enough. As far as your previous post, how can you even compare a free new car with a coat of spray wax slapped on it to someone paying for a detail? Are you being serious or were you just joking? I do have to thank you for a good laugh. Are you a comedian? You seem very funny.

I'm done with you, you're just one of those sad trolls that always has to ge the last word in.

And as far as your free car comment. GTH. I said I bought it which can mean a number of things. I signed the paper work. My responsible full time college student daughter who works 30 hours a week is paying the car payment.

I've said my piece, have a nice life.

I'll be waiting for that 20 minute polishing video LMFAO!

 

[TTQ B4U]

Your lsp will wear away much faster which equals more money out of your customers pocket.

So LSP's require a polishing of the suface in order to last? Funny, I've watch my nieghbor(older retired fellow) do a traditional wash and wax of his daily every spring and his car beads water all the way though fall when he breaks out his bucket and old towels and does it again before winter.

Maybe you should try to polish paint after you did you "strong wash" and see how much extra dirt comes off from polishing.

Once I wash, decontaminate the paint I get very little in the way of "dirt" all I see is slight bit typically on the edges of my pads. The majority of what sits on the pads is product and of course clear coat. Jeep I did and posted about yesterday was last "waxed" by the dealership the day the owner took delivery in Feb 2015. It came out 100% corrected with HD Speed on Green Hexlogic pads and I'll be happy to post pics of them. If I see dirt in my pads, it's either from excessive oxidation or a need for me to do better at chemically and physically decontaminating the vehicle.

Now if you are honest with your clients and they do know that they paying for subpar results than it is ok. But I seriously doubt that you are THAT honest. And let me remind you, the op was about a coating, not some cheap mini detail.

Aain with you're continued attempts to infere words onto others. You really should stop as it isn't helping your cause. In terms of the original post......you mean like in post #56 where I tried to bring you back on topic? :laughing:

I am definitely not a know it all but I do have the basics down pretty good. You should try it sometimes. If you expect me to tip toe around big egos, you will not like me. So for that I apologize.

Well I can count more times in this thread alone where several others here have the same opinion about your and your commens vs none of my posts here ever. Enjoy your ego. Most everyone else here has checked theirs at the door and where they do exist they've earned the right to have one. However, if you wish to go toe to toe, I'm happy to ablige. Let's spare others and take it to PM though.

 

[tdekany]

A quick 20 minute once over polishing step? Please by all means post us up a video of you performing your 20 minute quick polishing step procedure. I for one would love to see that.

What do you want to see? How to polish? Do you not know?

Or are you questioning the quality of a "quick" polishing step while you are defending "skipping" the step altogether? Lol! Seems like you are also having an issue with the suggestion that a detail should include all the steps to do it right. I am guessing that you have read all the posts, but in case you missed some of the contents, PREP is the key. Whether you use a wax, a sealant or a coating, it is all the same. The purpose of polishing the paint in our case is: to mechanically clean the paint so that the lsp of your choice can adhere properly AND get the best possible gloss that your lsp locks in. So you tell me why a so called professional should skip this step. Thank you.

 

[Cruzscarwash]

no, no, im enjoying the popping corn

 

[tdekany]

No, I provide top level services worked very hard to get to where I am today, so when I see corners being cut, I point it out. I am a pro detailer on a dedicated detailing forum telling people to up their standards and you call me a troll? Lol! Thank you!

I'm done with you, you're just one of those sad trolls that always has to ge the last word in.

And as far as your free car comment. GTH. I said I bought it which can mean a number of things. I signed the paper work. My responsible full time college student daughter who works 30 hours a week is paying the car payment.

I've said my piece, have a nice life.

I'll be waiting for that 20 minute polishing video LMFAO!

 

[Octopiston]

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone-as far as I know, every customer who pays for a detail, does it to have a shiny finish. As detailiers, our job is to deliver a shiny finish. Part of detailing is to polish the paint. That is not a step you should ever skip. PREP is the key. Unless someone just wants a wash: all your packages should include a polishing step. You don't try to "sell" polishing anymore than trying to convince a customer a jiffy lube to also replace the oil filter. That would be silly. It is part of an oil change. The only difference is that most of your customers are clueless about detailing while those same people know that the oil filter needs to be also replaced. Have you ever been asked if you wanted the filter also replaced at the time of an oil change? That is in fact what you are trying to do here - don't you think it is silly? Btw, if your customer runs his/her car through car washes, and that is your reason not to polish his/her car, why do you even wax that finish? You know that the protection will be stripped in no time. Right?

As far as your justification for your standards by pointing out how cars look at car shows? I think that is the issue here. You provide a service that you charge for. You are comparing yourself to a DIY person.

Let me guess. You have never worked in another industry so this is life to you? Some people just want clean. Do you spend all your time making it shiny and not clean the interior too?
You talk about prep. Do you also wetsand every car? Prep is key and to get the most shine you want the smoothest surface, right? The hack down the street can run a buffer over the car for 20 min too......
The difference...if I'm going to get pads dirty and get the machine out, I'm going to spend several hours on the paint. My fee increases pretty substantially due to time, expertise, product, amd equipment. Most don't opt for the service with polishing. So what? I'm supposed to turn away a large protion of my customers because you think I should increase my base price to include polishing that they will never see the difference from? I will tell you what I will not do, that is some 20 min spit shine so I can tell my customers that I "polished" their car. That isn't proper prep either and yet you argue for it.... I couldn't sleep at night taking advantage of people like that.

As for the oil change analogy, if you don't polish the car, what happens? Does your engine go bad? No. Does the paint? No. It just doesn't shine as much, and that is a difference that most people will not see. I can sure go to a dentist and tell them not to polish my teeth. . Why? Because it is COSMETIC. What you are doing is telling your "oil change" customers they need all fluids/filters changed, new wipers, and tires rotated. Well, maybe they just want the oil changed.....

I also brought up the diy's because that is how people view things. You know, the majority of people, not people who detail. Sure we can make thing even better, but do they even notice it? No. They don't. I can park my fully corrected V next to a swirrled car at a show and most people can't tell that mine is polished and the other isn't. They are the customer. It is THEIR expectations that need to be met within a price range THEY are willing to pay, not another detailer's.

 

[custmsprty]

What do you want to see? How to polish? Do you not know?

Or are you questioning the quality of a "quick" polishing step while you are defending "skipping" the step altogether? Lol! Seems like you are also having an issue with the suggestion that a detail should include all the steps to do it right. I am guessing that you have read all the posts, but in case you missed some of the contents, PREP is the key. Whether you use a wax, a sealant or a coating, it is all the same. The purpose of polishing the paint in our case is: to mechanically clean the paint so that the lsp of your choice can adhere properly AND get the best possible gloss that your lsp locks in. So you tell me why a so called professional should skip this step. Thank you.

If your so busy, how is it you've had all this free time to post your "opinions" on this thread throughout the day, on a Monday too?

Must be that 20 minute polishing step freeing up your time rops:

And I'll remind you again, this forum is for every level of car enthusiast, not just your so called pro's as you refer to.

You have zero right to "tell" any one to up their standards. Who are you, the detail police?

 

[tdekany]

Do you realize that no one was arguing about paint correction? Rasky was the only one who said that every car he had ever worked on needed correction work. I for one believe him, that that is his experience - even I get lucky once in a while and work on a car that is perfect. One includes our new car. But most cars are not as lucky. If you had 4 in a row consider yourself very lucky. Btw, I had a chance to opti coat a new Bmw at the dealer prior to being picked up. It was on a Sunday when the detail department is closed so I had the whole place to myself. They we're using lots of Rupes 21s - the one rotary they had was used with a brush to clean floor mats and carpets. Their cars in the show room were mint. What is interesting about this dealership is that one of the managers had his car opti coated by me a couple of years ago. Did ask me questions about what I was using to polish and stuff.

.... You guys can carry on with your little argument, but I've heard about enough as far as the paint on brand new vehicles Always needing paint correction. The last 4 brand new vehicles to come my way have been absolutely flawless from the dealers lot.

2014 Dodge Charger: About a month old when 1st detailed it. No swirls. Needed to be clayed, from there I machine applied an AIO.

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

2016 Dodge Ram: It came to me 4 days after being driven off the lot. Absolutely perfect in every way as far as the paint. Did not need claying, no swirl to be found, I coated all the trim, protected all the fabric, and the paint went straight to sealant.

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

My brothers 2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee: 10 days after he drove it off the lot. Paint was absolutely perfect in every way. Washed it and went straight to sealant.

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

My 2014 Kia Sorento: Paint was perfect from day 1 from the dealer. No clay needed, I did a test spot on the passenger door with M205 and a finishing pad. Polished half the door, then inspected it for nearly 30min. trying to see if there was any difference, there was not. So I decided not to polish the rest of the vehicle and went straight to sealant. 2+yrs. later and the paint is still flawless.

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

Now go slap somebody... lol.

 

[Octopiston]

What do you want to see? How to polish? Do you not know?
The purpose of polishing the paint in our case is: to mechanically clean the paint so that the lsp of your choice can adhere properly AND get the best possible gloss that your lsp locks in. So you tell me why a so called professional should skip this step. Thank you.

Incorrect. Cleaning is done with soap, then the clay and spray....Aka decontamination step.

Polishing knocks down the high spots in scratches so they don't refract the light making for a smoother surface. There should be a second cleaning step to remove residue from said polish (you do this, don't you?) prior to an lsp. It is the decon steps that preps the surface for the lsp and aids adhesion.

Might want to read some more of Mike's articles.

 

[tdekany]

If your so busy, how is it you've had all this free time to post your "opinions" on this thread throughout the day?

Must be that 20 minute polishing step freeing up your time rops:

And I'll remind you again, this forum is for every level of car enthusiast, not just your so called pro's as you refer to.

You have zero right to "tell" any one to up their standards. Who are you, the detail police?

Lol! Yes this forum is for all levels to use and learn from. However it seems that learning is not a top priority any more. Don't you find it funny that amatures and weekend warriors, some of them even charging money have an issue with a pro suggesting to not skip a step, polishing at that? Do you not see anything wrong with that? Lol! I have as much right to say what I want as you do - in fact I don't even mind if you tell me to GTH. That simply means that "unfortunately" I am right.

 

[tdekany]

Incorrect. Cleaning is done with soap, then the clay and spray....Aka decontamination step.

Polishing knocks down the high spots in scratches so they don't refract the light making for a smoother surface. There should be a second cleaning step to remove residue from said polish (you do this, don't you?) prior to an lsp. It is the decon steps that preps the surface for the lsp and aids adhesion.

Might want to read some more of Mike's articles.

I am actually pretty good at this detailing, but thank you for the suggestion. Since you brought up Mike - why don't you ask him how many times did he skip polishing in his career?

 

[RPM_BR]

Coating without correction?
I've never done that. And probably, I'll never will.
I've never clayed without polishing afterwards as well.
But I think correction is a wrong term for the OP, the correct term would be polishing.
Correction, imho, means renewing the paint, fixing years of neglect and swirls, usually a multi step process.
But coating a car without polishing first, even if it seems flawless, I've never done that. And I wouldn't do it.

 

[TTQ B4U]

Incorrect. Cleaning is done with soap, then the clay and spray....Aka decontamination step.

Polishing knocks down the high spots in scratches so they don't refract the light making for a smoother surface. There should be a second cleaning step to remove residue from said polish (you do this, don't you?) prior to an lsp. It is the decon steps that preps the surface for the lsp and aids adhesion.

Might want to read some more of Mike's articles.

Agree. I remember the post from years back prior to my joining the forum whereby Mike noted that the the two most important steps that will have the impact on end results w are the claying process and the cleaning of the paint. For cars that don't need or the client doesn't want to pay for the full polish but rather just wants a good cleaning and sealing, I use Car Pro TRIX. Does a fantastic job of removing road grime and contaminants such as tar that a nano sponge or clay won't remove. Prior to rinsing each section I wipe it down with a wet MF Rag.

 

[tdekany]

Polishing will further clean the paint. Use an orange pad and a polish of your choice. See the results. On top of that you increase the gloss. Why not do it wright? So many excuses. As far as what is helping my case, we are on a dedicated detailing forum and you continue telling me that polishing is an unnecessary step to provide better results for your clients - really? And just because you have more amatures liking the idea of skipping a step.... think about it, these guys don't detail for a living, and that is the best you can come up with justifying your skipping steps? Why don't you ask pros like Mike or Rasky. See if they would skip polishing at any price point?

So LSP's require a polishing of the suface in order to last? Funny, I've watch my nieghbor(older retired fellow) do a traditional wash and wax of his daily every spring and his car beads water all the way though fall when he breaks out his bucket and old towels and does it again before winter.

Once I wash, decontaminate the paint I get very little in the way of "dirt" all I see is slight bit typically on the edges of my pads. The majority of what sits on the pads is product and of course clear coat. Jeep I did and posted about yesterday was last "waxed" by the dealership the day the owner took delivery in Feb 2015. It came out 100% corrected with HD Speed on Green Hexlogic pads and I'll be happy to post pics of them. If I see dirt in my pads, it's either from excessive oxidation or a need for me to do better at chemically and physically decontaminating the vehicle.



Aain with you're continued attempts to infere words onto others. You really should stop as it isn't helping your cause. In terms of the original post......you mean like in post #56 where I tried to bring you back on topic? :laughing:




Well I can count more times in this thread alone where several others here have the same opinion about your and your commens vs none of my posts here ever. Enjoy your ego. Most everyone else here has checked theirs at the door and where they do exist they've earned the right to have one. However, if you wish to go toe to toe, I'm happy to ablige. Let's spare others and take it to PM though.

 

[custmsprty]

Lol! Yes this forum is for all levels to use and learn from. However it seems that learning is not a top priority any more. Don't you find it funny that amatures and weekend warriors, some of them even charging money have an issue with a pro suggesting to not skip a step, polishing at that? Do you not see anything wrong with that? Lol! I have as much right to say what I want as you do - in fact I don't even mind if you tell me to GTH. That simply means that "unfortunately" I am right.

What your are is a bully. You've proven yourself to be a person who inflicts his will upon others and everyone else is wrong. It's your way or the highway. Just the way you say things proves this over and over. Quote " I'm telling you". If it makes you feel better go tell yourself you're right, but you're not......LMFAO!

 

[The Guz]

I recommend this to be read. Dylan says it best in this fantastic article.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/dylan-von-kleist/the-sniper-culture-of-detailing/1098094676895539/

 

[tdekany]

You guessed wrong. That is one. If your customer base can't see the difference between a polished paint and an unpolished paint, I'm going to suggest you take some lessons from a pro.

Let me guess. You have never worked in another industry so this is life to you? Some people just want clean. Do you spend all your time making it shiny and not clean the interior too?
You talk about prep. Do you also wetsand every car? Prep is key and to get the most shine you want the smoothest surface, right? The hack down the street can run a buffer over the car for 20 min too......
The difference...if I'm going to get pads dirty and get the machine out, I'm going to spend several hours on the paint. My fee increases pretty substantially due to time, expertise, product, amd equipment. Most don't opt for the service with polishing. So what? I'm supposed to turn away a large protion of my customers because you think I should increase my base price to include polishing that they will never see the difference from? I will tell you what I will not do, that is some 20 min spit shine so I can tell my customers that I "polished" their car. That isn't proper prep either and yet you argue for it.... I couldn't sleep at night taking advantage of people like that.

As for the oil change analogy, if you don't polish the car, what happens? Does your engine go bad? No. Does the paint? No. It just doesn't shine as much, and that is a difference that most people will not see. I can sure go to a dentist and tell them not to polish my teeth. . Why? Because it is COSMETIC. What you are doing is telling your "oil change" customers they need all fluids/filters changed, new wipers, and tires rotated. Well, maybe they just want the oil changed.....

I also brought up the diy's because that is how people view things. You know, the majority of people, not people who detail. Sure we can make thing even better, but do they even notice it? No. They don't. I can park my fully corrected V next to a swirrled car at a show and most people can't tell that mine is polished and the other isn't. They are the customer. It is THEIR expectations that need to be met within a price range THEY are willing to pay, not another detailer's.

 

[Fast Eddie]

Geez, this thread is still going. I think people take stuff way too personal sometimes. I coated a car a couple years ago without correction, and I would do it again. Guy was 82 years old and set in his ways, didn't want to pay for a polish and was more than happy with the results. I've since done 7 more coatings all for his family members (son in law, daughter, grandkids etc) All those cars got corrected before coating. Guess giving my original customer what he wanted really worked out well and gained a ton great long term clients from it. I give my customers what they ask for and it makes them happy. Been working great for the past 13 years that way. If someone on the ol interwebs wants to say I'm doing my job wrong, a bad detailer, hack, etc....I could give a crap less. It's their problem, not mine. Don't take it personal.