FG400 Question

He Hate Me

He Hate Me

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Hello all,

So I decided to pull the trigger on some Menzerna FG400 after all the good reviews I've read around here.

I loaded it up on a newly bought LC CCS Orange pad and it just doesn't have the cut like the Megs UC that I used on my wife's truck. I did a one step on her 4-Runner and it came out pretty darn good with a Hex-Logic Orange pad. I am using it on my car this time (2008 Mazda) and it is still not cutting enough. I did notice using the Hex-Logic Orange pad it cut a LITTLE better but not what I would expect from this product and all the praise it gets. I really feel like I should have picked up Megs M101 like I had originally planned too...At this point, I'm just kinda shell-shocked that Megs UC (a $10 bottle) did better than a $30 bottle...

I use a PC 7424XP, 5 speed and definitely go slower than most, I am also working a 2x2 section. I prep my pad and clean it often. Any suggestions? Should I pick-up a MF pad (It seems like after some searching the MF does cut better, but substantially?) Any suggestions on MF pad? I've only used foam as I just started using machines.


Thank you for any suggestions and help.
 
I use the same machine. I use it with LC yellow flat pads and it works great. It does have a lot of oils in it. Are you using too much product possibly? I have M101. The FG 400 has better cut IMO. At least with the pads I'm using.mthe hex logic pads may be holding too much product???

How many section passes and what kind of pressure?
 
DaveT435 said:
I use the same machine. I use it with LC yellow flat pads and it works great. It does have a lot of oils in it. Are you using too much product possibly? I have M101. The FG 400 has better cut IMO. At least with the pads I'm using.mthe hex logic pads may be holding too much product???

How many section passes and what kind of pressure?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply DaveT435! I use 4 pea sized dots on my first run and then after that I do 3 every time. I do 3-4 (mostly 3) section passes (same amount I used with UC) should I be doing more with FG400 with all the oils it has?
 
Bump to speed six with 15 lbs pressure, then reduce machine speed and arm pressure after 4 passes. Yes, micro f pads do cut better.
From my experience, fg4oo has better cut than UC.
 
When I used speed 6 I noticed a lot more dusting (which I'm sure any product eventually does).
 
I prefer the LC flat orange pads and have had exceptional one step correction results with FG400 with that pad combo and running at 6 w/ no dusting.
 
I would try more section passes...6. Speed 5 or 6 I usually use 5. Medium pressure on the first four then lighten up a little on the last two.

I assume you are using 5.5 inch pads. Try just a little more product.
 
Thanks for all the suggestion guys, really appreciate you taking the time to help!

I'll do some more section passes. I really do want this stuff to work better than UC! I feel like I got the jist of the DA after doing my wife's truck, but maybe the paint is just a lot different on my car.
 
One thing to keep in mind when comparing 2 different products, is you are also using it on 2 very different paints. Toyota tends to be on a softer side, versus Mazda (Ford) tend to be a medium hardness clear. So to compare 2 products on 2 different vehicles, isn't a fair comparison for anyone.

Secondly, I would not recommend more than 4-5 section passes on FG400. If you can get it to last long enough to stay lubricated for 6 section passes, you are using too much product (at speed 5 or higher). FG400 doesn't like to be worked for that long in my experimenting. FG400 and an orange cutting pad can kill some serious defects, so let me ask you a few questions.

How are you prepping your pad? How are you cleaning your pad? How often are you cleaning your pad?
 
He Hate Me said:
When I used speed 6 I noticed a lot more dusting (which I'm sure any product eventually does).
Click to expand...

If you are noticing a lot of dust, either too much product is being used or your speed is too high causing the product to get hot and dry up. Again, FG400 does not like to be worked for too long or it will dust if it hasn't been broken down properly. You have to treat it much different than Meg's UC as it is a DAT product versus SMAT product.
 
Corey@OptimalDetailing said:
If you are noticing a lot of dust, either too much product is being used or your speed is too high causing the product to get hot and dry up. Again, FG400 does not like to be worked for too long or it will dust if it hasn't been broken down properly. You have to treat it much different than Meg's UC as it is a DAT product versus SMAT product.
Click to expand...

That's interesting, I never have a problem running 6 section passes. I do use a lower speed though. I'll have to do some testing stepping up the speed and use less passes and see what kind of results I get. I have been loosely following the "smack" method. He said he goes 6 to 8 passes.
 
DaveT435 said:
That's interesting, I never have a problem running 6 section passes. I do use a lower speed though. I'll have to do some testing stepping up the speed and use less passes and see what kind of results I get. I have been loosely following the "smack" method. He said he goes 6 to 8 passes.
Click to expand...

You can go 6-8 passes, but you really have to utilize the slower speed (aka Smack Technique). Mike and I have discussed a bit as far as his technique is concerned and using a slower speed allows FG400 to break down properly without drying up. Speed 5 or higher on a PC will not allow the product to break down and stay consistent with its lubricity. But running at a higher speed I have had FG400 dry up and dust using a high speed and it doesn't cut OR finish near as well, for obvious reasons.

I back up Mike's (Smack technique) theory 100% and use it personally, so I know it works.
 
Corey@OptimalDetailing said:
You can go 6-8 passes, but you really have to utilize the slower speed (aka Smack Technique). Mike and I have discussed a bit as far as his technique is concerned and using a slower speed allows FG400 to break down properly without drying up. Speed 5 or higher on a PC will not allow the product to break down and stay consistent with its lubricity. But running at a higher speed I have had FG400 dry up and dust using a high speed and it doesn't cut OR finish near as well, for obvious reasons.

I back up Mike's (Smack technique) theory 100% and use it personally, so I know it works.
Click to expand...

Ahhh...I misunderstood what you were saying. After re reading it I got it. your just saying if you can get that many passes at speed 5 or higher your using too much product.
 
Corey@OptimalDetailing said:
One thing to keep in mind when comparing 2 different products, is you are also using it on 2 very different paints. Toyota tends to be on a softer side, versus Mazda (Ford) tend to be a medium hardness clear. So to compare 2 products on 2 different vehicles, isn't a fair comparison for anyone.

Secondly, I would not recommend more than 4-5 section passes on FG400. If you can get it to last long enough to stay lubricated for 6 section passes, you are using too much product (at speed 5 or higher). FG400 doesn't like to be worked for that long in my experimenting. FG400 and an orange cutting pad can kill some serious defects, so let me ask you a few questions.

How are you prepping your pad? How are you cleaning your pad? How often are you cleaning your pad?
Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply Corey!

I had kinda thought that there would be a difference in paints and definitely would be unjust to expect the same results.

I am prepping my pad by spraying 2 sprays of CG Pad Conditioner and I am cleaning my pad by spraying it liberally with CG Pad Cleaner and rinsing and scrubbing it with water then drying it by putting it on the DA and turning it on and letting the water fly off away from everything. I do this every 2 panels. Should probably do it every 1 though... but still wasn't seeing the result I wanted with a clean pad.

So speed 3-4 with 4 section passes would be good?
 
He Hate Me said:
Thanks for your reply Corey!

I had kinda thought that there would be a difference in paints and definitely would be unjust to expect the same results.

I am prepping my pad by spraying 2 sprays of CG Pad Conditioner and I am cleaning my pad by spraying it liberally with CG Pad Cleaner and rinsing and scrubbing it with water then drying it by putting it on the DA and turning it on and letting the water fly off away from everything.

So speed 3-4 with 4 section passes would be good?
Click to expand...

I would try speed 4/5 with 5-6 section passes. On the last 1-2 section passes, lower your speed to 3/4 with minimal pressure. This will allow you to make sure the FG400 is properly broken down and to finish the way it should.

I assume after cleaning your pad you are allowing it to air dry? If not, applying product to a moist pad can affect it's cutting capabilities. Just making sure I am understanding your cleaning method correctly. Other than that, I have learned to practice, play, and perfect different methods with different products. If you have time, break a hood down into 4-6 sections, taping each section off according to size. Use different pads, speeds, product amount, etc. You'll be amazed at what certain products will do in different circumstances.
 
Definitely slow your machine speed down a touch to like 4.5 / 5 on the PC. FG 400 does not like to be worked too fast.

Working a 2 x 2 section is too big - I assume you are using 5.5" pads (IMO a must on the 'underpowered' PC) - if so, tap out an area 3 pads long x 2 pads wide and work in that area.

SLOW arm speed. Like 1 to 1.5 " / second

6 to 8 passes

Remember that on your first couple of passes is where the abrasives are at their most effective as far as cut goes, so really slow down on them.... you can speed arm speed up a little and ease off the pressure a little for the last couple to help refine the finish.

I would also NOT be priming your pad initially with a pad conditioner, but that's just me - I find it just helps the polish to clump and gum up to much.

Dry pad, 4 small drops, tap out the work area, spreadh the polish on speed 2. Machine up to speed 4.5 and do your section passes. Clean the pad. Put 3 small drops. repeat.

I then like to change out to a fresh pad after every 4 to 6 sections...
 
A lot of great feedback given on getting the most from FG400.

I would like to add that DAT based polishes are more effective with a flat faced pad rather than those Hex Logic pads.

Also in my testing I found that FG400 will in fact dust up pretty badly when run at speed 6. When getting the machine down to speed three the effectiveness of FG400 really shines. After all, the recommended speed for FG400 is 900-1200rpm. And SF4000 like 1500-1800.

These speeds are contradictory to what we are used to. Normally you would compound at speed 5-6 and polish at 3-4. With Menzerna polishes it is backwards. Compound slow and polish fast.

For pad recommendations for the 7424XP, I would suggest the Lake Country Hydrotech pads in the smaller 5.5x7/8 thickness. The smaller pads allow more of the machines energy to transfer through the pads. Also IMO, Menzerna polishes as well as Wolfgang polishes are more effective with the closed cell designed pad rather than the open cell design featured on many other pads. The closed cell design allows more of the polish to stay on the face of the pad rather than being saturated into the pad.
 
When I went to a detailing class we were taught how to correctly use a DA and a rotary. The test hood was supplied by the Menzerna distributors who conducted the class themselves. The hood was intentionally swirled up infront of us and the products used were FG400 on its own, SF4000 on its own and FG400 followed by SF4000, all three seperate taped sections to see the differences. Most common errors by all of us attending the class was:

* Too fast an arm speed
* Too much product used
* Not enough working time of the product as Menz has a "long play time" and alittle polish goes a long way,good value for money but has to be broken down properly till its almost clear.

The FG400 finished superbly and we all agreed we didn't need a follow up step as defects were all removed and gloss was outstanding. Till we saw the SF4000 finished after FG400 next to the FG400 test side only, the SF4000 really made a noticeable difference. One would never have known were they content with the FG400 side only.
 
What size pad are you using? With the PCXP, speed 5 is fine. Clean your pad on the fly with a pad conditioning brush(after every section) instead of the pad washer. Start with a "X" on a fresh pad, then follow with 3 drops thereafter. Use enough pressure to keep ample backing plate rotation, but don't use too little pressure.
 
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