First shot at fixing the black Vette

[J S Machine]

Picked up the last orange pad they had left at HF today. It was only like $4.50...figured it would not hurt to try it. If they would have had more I would have gotten those too, but there was just one.

 

[Hoytman]

Have you given any thought to using microfiber cutting disks instead of foam pads? Is there a Harbor freight tools location near you anywhere? Our local HF is now carrying some decent 6" foam buffing pads that look similar to the flat LC or Buff&Shine pads. They are where the abrasives are stocked in the store.

Great suggestions Dave. I was going to mention micro fiber pads to him, but forgot them. Need to make a trip to HF myself.

Since he's got some expereince with a rotary I suggested wool and M105, but obviously the micro fiber pads are much safer while giving greater cut than foam. Perhaps wool isn't the best choice, but coupled with M105 and low speed I wouldn't be afraid to try it if I thought I needed to. Obviously, proceeding from least aggressive to more aggressive is the safest policy, for sure. What I would do and what John does are two different things, of course.

I like Buff n Shine pads as well and I'd certainly try one of my yellow BnS pads on it if I didn't have micro fibers...which I do as well and I'd try that too. I've got wool as well...but my products and tools aren't going to help him. LOL!!!

I thought I mentioned to him that LC HT Cyan pads cut well but don't last long. Maybe I didn't mention it. Anywho...nice work on the roof, John.rops:

I'm pumped to see a bit of progess, even if it was slow.

 

[slapshot]

Glad to hear you are getting the paint fixed, especially after your nightmare details early on. This thread has been very good info for many of us as well. I'll be going my wife's black 335i over Thanksgiving vacation, so I read all black car threads carefully. Luckily, I don't have any big problems to correct. I will make a thread to show the before and after and product reviews as well.

 

[J S Machine]

I did some more work on the car yesterday. The HF cutting pad I bought worked out ok, but it was very stiff compared to my Lake Country pads. It also started to deteriorate after about 20 minutes of use, and started crumbling. The pad surface is OK, but it is coming apart near wear the velcro attaches on the backing plate. It is losing little foam particles whick look like specs of compound. You have to look close to see that they are peices of pad, and not compound. I would probably buy one again, but only if it was an emergency and I couldn't get a good pad.

I focused on the hatch lid for most of the afternoon. It had an abundance of small scratches. I didn't get pictures of every step, since I have already detailed all of that in previous posts. It took a good three hours to do the hatch lid because of having to go back and redo some of the sanding on some of the scratches. There were some that seemed to be a little deeper than what I had encountered on the roof and halo. It finished out well though and got a coat of paint sealant on it too.

Here is an example of one of the scratches I found on the hatch lid..

Here is a picture of the finished hatch lid. Not the drastic color difference in between the hatch and the small strip of the upper bumper cover and the fender to the left. That is one thing that is just been knocking me down... It is unbelieveable how defects in the paint can cause the light to scatter and create and illusion that the paint is changing colors in a sense. Once it is corrected and the surface is free of defects, the color deepens and really pops

I also did the headlight covers. They have the same questionable paint that the hood does, since they were painted at the same time. Remember, the last guy to detail the car actually wetsanded the whole car, including the hood. Up until this, the hood had only been compounded. It seemed to eventually show the die back symptoms again every time after a couple of weeks, but this time it is different. It seems to be holding its gloss, so maybe the wet sanding actually helped, and the symptoms were only on the surface. I'm gonna do the hood last, and I am going to redo the wet sanding. After I do it, and polish it myself, we will see how long it lasts. Just wanted to throw that in though, because I didn't want you guys to think I sanded the entire headlight for an unknown reason.

The reason I jumped to the headlights after the hatch was because I was running out of day light and I knew that I could get those done quickly. I had an hour in those alone.

Here is a pic of the headlight covers prepared and the surrounding body panels taped

And here is a picture of them after the first compounding step and then a complete wet sanding

The headlights finished out just fine and got a good coat of paint sealant. I am now 14 hours into the correction.

I'll probably take a break tonight because I have plans after work, but I will pick back up tomorrow. I am going to put in an order today for some M105 and some more cutting pads. I'm gonna have to have them because my pads are wearing quickly. There is no way the two good lake country pads I have (that are now pretty worn) will make it through the whole rest of the car.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Thanks for the sticking with your project and posting all the pictures and follow-up posts...

I told you you could do it yourself with the help of our stellar forum members!



:dblthumb2:

 

[Y2KSVT]

JS, are you cleaning your pads often? That should help keep your pads alive a little bit longer if you haven't been. Mike has videos on how to clean your pad on the fly. Essentially, using a terry cloth, apply pressure to your pad as you turn the machine on to speed 5 or 6 to remove spent product and clear coat. When your pad gets gummed up with product and clear, you'll notice the pad start to deteriorate faster in the center as that's where everything accumulates. Keep your pads clean. :xyxthumbs:

 

[J S Machine]

JS, are you cleaning your pads often? That should help keep your pads alive a little bit longer if you haven't been. Mike has videos on how to clean your pad on the fly. Essentially, using a terry cloth, apply pressure to your pad as you turn the machine on to speed 5 or 6 to remove spent product and clear coat. When your pad gets gummed up with product and clear, you'll notice the pad start to deteriorate faster in the center as that's where everything accumulates. Keep your pads clean. :xyxthumbs:

I am. I have been cleaining them on the fly. After every session of working with all my stuff, I use my pad cleaner solution and clean them in the sink. That's working pretty good too, but what I have noticed is that even though it seems all the water is gone, it really isn't. I truned a big box fan up and put them on it for almost a day Saw that in a pic on here), and there was still residual water in them. The way you know is when you first put the pad down on the paint and the thing slings watered down compound solution...

After a few section passres though they seem to clean up and work like they should.

I am going to start using compressed air..

 

[Hoytman]

Here is a pic of the headlight covers prepared and the surrounding body panels taped

And here is a picture of them after the first compounding step and then a complete wet sanding

The headlights finished out just fine and got a good coat of paint sealant. I am now 14 hours into the correction.

Glad those lights turned out great and that you're making progress, John.

I am curious though. You had the lights taped up, which are small areas, why didn't you save yourself some time and just sand them first? It seems that would have saved you time and compound, plus wear and tear on your pads. I like Mr. Phillips' philosophy of "workiing forward." I would have thought that a little closer inspection with your light would have revealed these RIDS as easily as a compound step would have made them pop out, but would have saved you time.

I know you've been doing those same steps on the entire car and it seems like that would add a tremendous amount of time and work. Makes me wonder if your light is powerful enough, or if you're spending enough time inspecting first, or both.

Not trying to sound negative, rather, trying to offer time saving suggestions. Meguiar's M105 will speed this process up for you a little, but you need to eliminate working backwards...compounding, then sanding and recompounding. Move forward by inspecting, sanding, compounding, polishing, and finally sealing.

Regardless of what you do, it is looking nice and it seems you're accomplishing your goal. I couldn't be happier about that for you.

 

[J S Machine]

Bill, If you look at this first pic from my last post, you will see the many (seems like millions) scratches in the paint, all over the surface. In addition, the hazing from the wet sanding job the last detail guy did hides alot of defects.

It's hard to tell what will come out with compounding and what will not, so that is the reason I'm doing the compounding step first. It cleans up alot of crap that I might waste time sanding. I completely see your point though, and on the headlights the compounding step was not needed since I did end up sanding them entirely. Good catch

 

[Hoytman]

I am. I have been cleaining them on the fly. After every session of working with all my stuff, I use my pad cleaner solution and clean them in the sink. That's working pretty good too, but what I have noticed is that even though it seems all the water is gone, it really isn't. I truned a big box fan up and put them on it for almost a day Saw that in a pic on here), and there was still residual water in them. The way you know is when you first put the pad down on the paint and the thing slings watered down compound solution...

After a few section passres though they seem to clean up and work like they should.

I am going to start using compressed air..

Spin them out on your rotary and then put the fan on them. Without spinning my pads it takes days for them to dry. With spinning the water out, they're dry enough to use the next day. Keep in mind that I told you how richy primes his pads for M105. Not saying you have to prime your pads like that, but the point is that his pads are damp to start with. So, a little dampness shouldn't bother the pads.

If I just squeeze out the water, then press against some paper towels to further remove water, then let them dry over night...by morning there is still too much water in them. Spinning is key imo...and I thank richy for that.

 

[Hoytman]

Bill, If you look at this first pic from my last post, you will see the many (seems like millions) scratches in the paint, all over the surface. In addition, the hazing from the wet sanding job the last detail guy did hides alot of defects.

It's hard to tell what will come out with compounding and what will not, so that is the reason I'm doing the compounding step first. It cleans up alot of crap that I might waste time sanding. I completely see your point though, and on the headlights the compounding step was not needed since I did end up sanding them entirely. Good catch

I try to pay attention.rops:
I realize you're trying to save as much clear as possible here and that has some bearing on how you proceed.

I have a question for you. In the photo what defects do you see? (Not a trick question) I have to know if we're seeing the same things.

 

[J S Machine]

In that photo, if you look at my left hand reflection, you can see multiple horizontal scratches or mar marks..and I assume those are from clogging the sandpaper while he was wet sanding, or something..

Smack dab in the middle in the reflection of my phone, I see the two scratches that look really bad. They really are not, and are simply just mar marks like the others..just more noticeable. None of the scratches so far have really been deep enough to catch a finger nail.

Also looking closer, there is a little spot right in the center of the pic. That is a place from either tree sap or bird droppings that has deteriorated the paint in that spot.

 

[Hoytman]

I just wanted to make sure you were seeing those sanding marks. I also noticed another scratch on the right side of the photo, straight down from your middle finger, and it splits the web of your thumb from the palm of your hand over and onto the camera. If you place the photo in paint and zoom in you can see it easily.

Had you compounded that spot before taking that photo? I assume you'll be wet sanding those defects on that photo?

How many spots do you think you're going to have to spot sand on either of the doors?

Regardless, Mr. Phillips and/or Dave, and others can certainly help you get this car ironed out. That's what's nice about this forum. Lots of good people willing to share knowledge and lend a hand. Many with way more experience than I have, for sure.

 

[tuscarora dave]

JS, you're doing a great job of correcting your paint. It was nice to wake up this morning (early early) and see that your project is moving forward so well. Good call on taking a night off too. It's very easy to get burned out and loose focus on a job like this, especially when you're pushing to get the work done while also working your way through multiple learning curves...(pads, products, machine etc. etc.)

It's very nice to get a bird's eye view with all of your documenting photos and well written descriptions of what you're doing, and to see the member interaction is inspiring to me as well.

No disrespect intended toward all the newbies on here, (because I remember how intimidating a sea of "new to me" products made me feel in the beginning) but it sure beats the "What's the best wax" threads.

Keep up the great work JS!!

 

[J S Machine]

I just wanted to make sure you were seeing those sanding marks. I also noticed another scratch on the right side of the photo, straight down from your middle finger, and it splits the web of your thumb from the palm of your hand over and onto the camera. If you place the photo in paint and zoom in you can see it easily.

Had you compounded that spot before taking that photo? I assume you'll be wet sanding those defects on that photo?

How many spots do you think you're going to have to spot sand on either of the doors?

Regardless, Mr. Phillips and/or Dave, and others can certainly help you get this car ironed out. That's what's nice about this forum. Lots of good people willing to share knowledge and lend a hand. Many with way more experience than I have, for sure.

Yes, I see that one too. Trust me, I see them all. I was just pointing out the obvious ones. This was a picture of the hatch after it had been washed. Nothing had been done to it at this point.

So far, with the roof, halo, and hatch lid, I've been able to get out 99% of the defects. Not much was so deep it could not be safely removed. There are, however, rock chips on the headlight covers and hood.

I hate to keep harping on the paint that was used on the hood and headlight covers for that first repair, but I have no idea what the painter did.

Just to recap, about three years ago, there was damage from an accident and the bumper cover, light covers, and hood were all repainted. The car remained like this until October of last year when I hit the deer. Then, that was when most of the car was repainted, including the nose. The only thing not painted then was the hood and headlight covers. I think the left front fender may be factory too..but anyway,

Before I hit the deer last year, the bumper (which was painted by the same guy that did the hood and headlight covers with the first repair) was covered in about 150-200 rock chips. It was almost like the paint had too much hardener mixed in or something. The reason I think this is because I pretty much daily drive this car, and since it was painted after the deer repair last year (along with most of the car), I don't have a single bad rock chip on the bumper cover.

In lamens terms:

1st paintjob by somebody recommended to me - 150 200 rock chips in about a two year period

2nd paintjob last year when the nose (bumper cover) was repainted - hardly nothing in most one year of daily driving the car..

Something was not right about the previous paint job, because the headlight covers have probably 5-7 rockchips a piece, and the front area of the hood probably has 10-15. It's crazy.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

No disrespect intended toward all the newbies on here, (because I remember how intimidating a sea of "new to me" products made me feel in the beginning) but it sure beats the "What's the best wax" threads.

Keep up the great work JS!!

I agree. This thread, together with John's previous threads are a good read and document the progress he's made from where he first started to where he is today including a text book example of how "good" forums work to see people through to success.


:xyxthumbs:

Just to recap, about three years ago, there was damage from an accident and the bumper cover, light covers, and hood were all repainted. The car remained like this until October of last year when I hit the deer. Then, that was when most of the car was repainted, including the nose. The only thing not painted then was the hood and headlight covers. I think the left front fender may be factory too..but anyway,

Before I hit the deer last year, the bumper (which was painted by the same guy that did the hood and headlight covers with the first repair) was covered in about 150-200 rock chips. It was almost like the paint had too much hardener mixed in or something. The reason I think this is because I pretty much daily drive this car, and since it was painted after the deer repair last year (along with most of the car), I don't have a single bad rock chip on the bumper cover.

In lamens terms:

1st paintjob by somebody recommended to me - 150 200 rock chips in about a two year period

2nd paintjob last year when the nose (bumper cover) was repainted - hardly nothing in most one year of daily driving the car..

Something was not right about the previous paint job, because the headlight covers have probably 5-7 rockchips a piece, and the front area of the hood probably has 10-15. It's crazy.

And this is why I prefer to drive a big, tall truck. No deer problems, no rock chip problems and no door ding problems.


:dblthumb2:

 

[J S Machine]

I picked up some microfiber pads the other day with a new order, along with some more orange cutting pads and some M105.

Any advice on trying / using the microfiber pads and 105 would be appreciated

The order should be here tomorrow 11/7.

 

[mikep288]

Just got done using the 105/ optimum microfiber combo cleaning up some Hurricane Sandy damage to my Sorento. Best advice I can share would be to invest in a pad cleaning brush if you don't already have one. The mf pads will become caked with product and become less effective as the fingers flatten out. A quick brushing and they are ready for action. They also require less pressure than a foam pad. The more you compress these pads, the less they do.

Microfiber pads have now become my go to's and I wish I had tried them sooner. When combined with m105 they are like a magic eraser for me.

Best wishes for your continued success.

 

[AutowerxDetailing]

I picked up some microfiber pads the other day with a new order, along with some more orange cutting pads and some M105.

Any advice on trying / using the microfiber pads and 105 would be appreciated

The order should be here tomorrow 11/7.

I like to mix a drop or two of D300 with a drop or two of M105 on the MF pads. That combo gives insane cut and a longer working time than just using M105 alone. M105 by itself works great with MF pads as well... I just really, really like mixing it with D300.

Regarding technique of MF vs foam pads: You are going to want to clean your pad MUCH more often when working with MF pads. Blow them out with compressed air after every single section so they don't become matted down. I use LC and Megs MF pads and I like them both. On my PCXP I typically run at speed 5 and bump up to speed 6 (in short bursts) for intensive defect removal. If you run at speed 6 the whole time you risk overheating the pad and delaminating the backing.

 

[J S Machine]

Next up was the front fender. I have been working on this a little every day for three days. Finally finished it last night. I used the new M105 and it worked better, but still not very fast. Definitely better than the Ultimate compound. This left front fender was never painted in the deer accident last year. For some reason I was thinking it had been done, but it had not. This was factory clear. Another way I can tell is because the color is slightly off..it is not as deep as the surfaces that were redone. In other words, it has faded over time. The clear was loaded with scratches from probably twelve years of abuse in it's life, as well as newer scratches instilled by the last detailer's attempt. It was especially challenging because it was the first side panel. Let's just say I took the easy way out by doing the top ones first..Wake up call...back pain for sure

Here is the fender wet sanded with the trizact pad waiting to be hit with the first compound step and M105

Here are the finished pics. The light is a regular desk lamp with one of the brightest screw in flourescents bulbs you can buy. Everything has been wiped with alcohol.

Getting into that spot where the hole is was very dificult. The small pads worked pretty good, but I still had to do a little hand compounding. That was easier than I expected it would be. I'm 18 hours in now.