Flex 3401 or rupes bigfoot.

StuDLei said:
Hey at least you're honest!!


The 3401 is the only polisher I've ever used but I have a hard time understanding people that claim the Rupes corrects better. I mean the Flex is forced rotation. You can stand on the damn thing. IDK…. most people mention the MF pads which I have no experience with either. Why are they better? And why can't you just use them with a Flex?

MF pads sound like they don't last and sound like a pain to clean between sections.
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Hi,

Gotta agree to disagree with you! By the way, I have some use on MF pads and at least the Meguiar's discs (both) and the Lake Country DA MF pads are great.

I do use them a bit differently (that may be subject to another topic), mainly brushing the pad frequently and adding more product to the pad with the brush, like re-priming the pad.

I only add product to 'semi-dry' sections of the pad, but brushes it entirely.

The trick part of MF pads is to maintain them neither wet or dry, every extreme will make it behave less than optimum and hard to clean between sections. That's why brushing with product helps a lot.

AREA for correction should be small (generally).

Polisher SPEED is also important, as MF pads 'likes' lower speeds, it means speed 4 on Meg's DA and maybe 3 on the Flex.

Lower speeds doesn't means barely rotating. As MF discs are THIN, DA polishers have plenty of power to spin them considerably fast, specially the 5" version. I would go with 6" for the Flex, but also will try the 5".

Pressure is not high, it's FIRM.

Arm speed is really SLOW.

Passes are no more than 6.

Fact is, I'm pretty sure I'll keep using MF pads on the Flex, they have their space and cut smooth through hard paint. It's just like treating them a bit differently than foam pads.

Mainly you haven't felt the need for it yet because comparing Foam with a random orbital vs Foam with forced rotation, you can already do really well with Foam pads and the Flex. Free spindle DAs are relying on MF to achieve higher degree of correction.

MF cuts great and can use virtually any existing compound and proper technique. If any haze, 3-4 passes with a WHITE polishing pad and a finer polish may refine the finish even more.

They last, and are easy to clean if you soak them and brush with proper soap till clean, letting them air dry or spinning them dry.

The MF resists much better to the pad brush and this makes it resistant and easy to clean.

Nowadays they are my 2-go for cutting, but I haven't received the LC Orange Hybrid pad + FG400 yet... !

There's a video of Mike Phillips with Meguiar's 'guys' showing MF DA system. Observing the technique applied by them was crucial for me to start enjoying MF the much I do.

Some time in the video, 'Mike P.' says: 'you've done what, 4 passes?!'. Great instructional video indeed.

Hope I've helped,

Kind Regards.
 
Rupes Big foot - 21mm throw is unrivaled...

this cannot be stressed enough....

can i get an AMEN! from the congregation??
 
I love those topics, we always learn a lot on them and discussion is flexible. Looks there aren't any 'Maniac' on board, and everyone at least Respect both products.

However, it ends like any 'blonde or brunette' discussion... it's great to have both (polishers for my wife's knowledge!).

Kind Regards.
 
I love those topics, we always learn a lot on them and discussion is flexible. Looks there aren't any 'Maniac' on board, and everyone at least Respect both products.

However, it ends like any 'blonde or brunette' discussion... it's great to have both (polishers, for my wife's knowledge!).

Kind Regards.
 
My 2 cents.. They are both great machines but if it was me I'd choose the Flex. 2 reasons:
Track record of the Flex
While the larger "stroke" makes flat surfaces faster... Most vehicles (especially the newer ones) are contoured...so in my opinion..the Rupes is less suited for smaller detailed areas.
 
StuDLei said:
I have a hard time understanding people that claim the Rupes corrects better. I mean the Flex is forced rotation. You can stand on the damn thing
Click to expand...

You can't stop the Griots 6" from spinning (hardly) and it's not really a debate which of those two correct better. Brute power isn't necessarily going to give the best results IMO. The whole thing with the Rupes' machines is that they do more "work" due to a the longer orbit. Less passes are required. Little downward force is needed.

The pad will also stay cleaner longer. The effect of the larger diameter orbit is quite significant. The thing that really sold me on the Rupes is the easy of use and how much work the machine is actually doing (read Kevin Browns stuff) due to the larger throw.

So, some people seem to have an issue with keeping the machine spinning on concave panels. I have experienced this, but it only a minor annoyance for me. The benefit far outweighs this rare instance for me.

When it comes to detailing (hobby), I want to use the easiest and most enjoyable stuff out there. Maybe if I was doing it for a living I would feel differently. I don't think many would argue the Rupes isn't the smoothest machine out there with their pads. Their machines basically only need to be guided over the paint. A lot of pros are using Rupes' stuff almost exclusively now as well.
 
The rupes with the washer mod is a whole different machine than without. On a 5 inch pad you have to be really aggressive to stop the pad from spinning.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using AG Online
 
VP Mark said:
The rupes with the washer mod is a whole different machine than without. On a 5 inch pad you have to be really aggressive to stop the pad from spinning.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using AG Online
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Interesting. I WM'ed my Rupes but am waiting for the big thaw out to use it with the WM. Without the WM it worked fine as well.
 
swanicyouth said:
Interesting. I WM'ed my Rupes but am waiting for the big thaw out to use it with the WM. Without the WM it worked fine as well.
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IMO, the WM doesn't make THAT big of a difference on non-flat panels. It helps. It doesn't turn it into forced rotation, not even close. However, you will get better correction.
 
bimmer325! said:
While the larger "stroke" makes flat surfaces faster... Most vehicles (especially the newer ones) are contoured...so in my opinion..the Rupes is less suited for smaller detailed areas.
Click to expand...
I agree, even with mini. With grooved areas, you're screwed with the Rupes. Flex 3401, nope!
 
FivePoint.0 said:
IMO, the WM doesn't make THAT big of a difference on non-flat panels. It helps. It doesn't turn it into forced rotation, not even close. However, you will get better correction.
Click to expand...

Have to disagree here, it makes the machine completely different. Nothing will make it forced rotation but that is what I have a rotary for.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using AG Online
 
swanicyouth said:
You can't stop the Griots 6" from spinning (hardly) and it's not really a debate which of those two correct better. Brute power isn't necessarily going to give the best results IMO. The whole thing with the Rupes' machines is that they do more "work" due to a the longer orbit. Less passes are required. Little downward force is needed.

The pad will also stay cleaner longer. The effect of the larger diameter orbit is quite significant. The thing that really sold me on the Rupes is the easy of use and how much work the machine is actually doing (read Kevin Browns stuff) due to the larger throw.

So, some people seem to have an issue with keeping the machine spinning on concave panels. I have experienced this, but it only a minor annoyance for me. The benefit far outweighs this rare instance for me.

When it comes to detailing (hobby), I want to use the easiest and most enjoyable stuff out there. Maybe if I was doing it for a living I would feel differently. I don't think many would argue the Rupes isn't the smoothest machine out there with their pads. Their machines basically only need to be guided over the paint. A lot of pros are using Rupes' stuff almost exclusively now as well.
Click to expand...


This is a great post that summarizes things well.

I know Scottwax switched to a Rupes pretty much exclusively.
 
Tato;1034568 - Edited said:
Just waiting for shipping confirmation on my 3401 from AG.

I'm not against Rupes polishers and system, in contrary, I'm a huge fan. I do plan to have at least one of their options, be it the 21 for larger panels or the mini for the spots, or both.

Indeed, I had to choose to order only one first, and being that said, I believe Flex 3401 alone can handle more than a Rupes 21 alone. Now, if we are talking about a guy who has 6 different sized Rupes, well, maybe this guy doesn't need a Flex!

To inform, I'm upgrading from Meguiar's G220v2. I like my polisher and believe I achieve decent results. Doing more cars recently made necessary to upgrade equipments both to handle the job faster, better, and more professionally.

It was very difficult to decide, and I'm sure I wouldn't be disappointed by the Rupes if I've chosen it instead. It'll have it's place in my Garage, just later.

Good luck to everyone being on this 'dilemma'. I've been there, and it can be a very tough decision.

My tip is to read a lot, see a lot of videos, and try both if you have the opportunity. Another important factor was sending PM to some forum members, everyone answered me with impartial insights and suggestions, that made my choice even easier. Thanks AGO members!
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Updating with selfish quote (lol).

The above message was placed when I ordered my Flex. It was a sure shot, couldn't be happier. It made the job better like I expected. I'm relying only on it to do entire cars, and the parts I cannot fit with 4" pads I doubt I would be able to handle with 'mini polishers'. So I'm sticking with the Flex.

However, like I advanced in later january, I would add a Rupes to my arsenal, and that was possible this week.

Like the start of quote, here I go again:
Just waiting for shipping confirmation on my Rupes 21 from AG.

In no way I plan to get rid of the Flex, since it's a very capable machine, a pleasure to use.

I just found myself using it much more with 4" plate and 5" hybrids than larger pads.

My expectations for the Rupes are:

1 - Tackling large flat panels
2 - Have it as a spare (secondary polish if something odd happens to my 3401 in the middle of a job)
3 - Use it for second / finishing step when I may focus on larger pads and overall surface polishing.
4 - Work on several soft paints for 1-step where I generally need multiple steps with the 3401.
5 - Get advantage of MF pads
6 - User Comfort and Ergonomics is a very convincing appeal, for me.

Although the Flex 3401 can be easy handled, it may be tiresome when detailing all day, for consecutive days, particularly doing many steps on vertical panels when using large, heavier pads and pressure. I'll try to benefit from Rupes smoothness to easy out on my body when needed as well.


I've ordered Rupes pads in 6" and 7", LC pads, 5" plate and will try with and without the washer mod.

My best will is being able to hang around without the washer, but if I feel the need I'll not hesitate to insert it.

Although some very experienced detailers instructed me to pair the flex 3401 with a PE-14 (and I can't disagree with them), I've chose to keep relying on DA's safety for the refinishing work I do. 'Those experienced who I'm talking about' trusts more I'd be able to 'wheel a car's finish' more than myself, so I decided it's just not my moment for the rotary thing, yet.

As a campaign compromise, I'll state here I'll grab a Flex Rotary directly from AG when I go to US for some training.

Overall I'm very excited to receive the '21, since it's an 'ADDITION' to my arsenal, exchanging Flex for Rupes (or vice-versa) are not in my plans. Using both, that's what my thoughts are all about.

Again, asking many forum members personally helped me a lot getting the confidence needed for the order, also received many recommendations of products to use with.

I'll also try to put a review as soon as I get it, and make my comparisons with the Flex 3401 I actually use a lot, and modesty apart, have a decent skill with.

Can't wait... can't wait!

Thank you everyone for this thread, since I went through it over again when deciding to add the Rupes to my tools.

Kind Regards.
 
I have a LHR15 and a Flex 3401. The Flex is superior in every way. Best DA on the market IMO. The LHR15 barely has more power than a PC. Heck- the Harbor Freight has more power than the Rupes and it's a fraction of the price. Flex for the win!!
 
Mach1USMC said:
I have a LHR15 and a Flex 3401. The Flex is superior in every way. Best DA on the market IMO. The LHR15 barely has more power than a PC. Heck- the Harbor Freight has more power than the Rupes and it's a fraction of the price. Flex for the win!!
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The "power" facts are true. I agree there. However, "power" doesn't equal "results". The large throw of the BF means you can do more "work" in less passes. Of course, if the pad ain't spinning - you ain't doing ANY work.

However, that's rarely the case with the BF. Only on a rather complex area. Almost ALL the Rupes pads/polishes finish down LSP perfect with their machine - including their most aggressive foam / compound.

Not to mention the no brainer of simply using the right Rupes pad with their correct polish. So, IMHO the Rupes has the ability to cut and finish a bit easier - maybe more reliably due to the pre-determined system approach.

There has been more than one person who has posted they have been left with holograms when finishing with the 3401 on soft paint here. I'm guessing this is due to forced rotation of the machine and soft paint. The machine seems to be more sensitive to this. I can't remember ANY Rupes threads like this.

IMHO... The 3401 may be better for severely jacked up paint, because the forced rotation can muscle through stuff that requires wool or MF pads to cut. But, it's also my opinion the Rupes is better for normal paint or regular polishing.
 
I have the Flex 3401, pc7424, and a 5" Craftsman d/a variable speed sander.

The debate isn't so much which machine to get, but when to get it. I plan on ordering the Flex Rotary, and the Rupes Duetto. I've been using rotaries since 1998, so I assume that's why the 3401 doesn't bother me. I love the PC, and the Craftsman machines. I've never had a problem accomplishing my goals with any of these machines. To be honest, these are kind of like "toys" for me that make me side money. I feel lucky to be able to have all these great machines at my access.

I have a small "traveling" polishing kit that I love to keep on hand. It all fits into a smaller tool bag. In the bag I have the 5" Craftsman d/a, Orange, Green, and Blue CCS pads, microfiber towels, 8oz each of SCG Beyond Clay, Nano Seal, and Barrier Reef Wax, applicators, clay, and detail spray. That kit has been getting the most use.
 
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