GG 6", Megs G110v2, or Flex 3401

[5.4 Shelby]

It's just very misleading on Flex's part? :dunno:

That is why I would like to hear your comparison to the GG you just bought. IS the Flex really worth the diff in cost? I am sure it is a really nice machine regardless of the stated performance, but, are the GG and Megs closer than it appears?

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Hey Kevin, thanks for dropping by and clearing up any confusion...

Hey give me a call sometime to discuss...

760-515-0444

Kevin was nice enough to give me his number and explain some good info to me. You've taken the time to do the same thing with me. You both are true PROFESSIONALS! rops:

 

[Grizzly]

Is Kevin still releasing some sort of paper, report, or article on this. Maybe I am confused with someone else, I have terrible memory.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I just read the entire thread. Wow. "OVERCOMPLICATED?" Not true. Tsk, tsk.

Hey Kevin,

I hope you didn't take my comment the wrong way, it wasn't directed at you or the KB method, it's a comment I make all the time about discussions on discussion forum because that's just the nature of the beast.

Here's what I wrote

It's the trend on detailing discussion forums to over-complicate things that are very simple. I don't know why, that's just the nature of detailing enthusiasts.

And I think that if anyone reads any detailing discussion forum for any length of time you'll see that it's true... people will tend to take something that's very simple and over-complicate it, including washing a car.

Note what I posted here below in answer to this comment,

I have seen the "KB Method" referenced a few times. Can anyone explain or link me to an explanation of it?

I've seen pages written on this when it's really very simple.

:xyxthumbs:

 

[Kevin Brown]

It's just very misleading on Flex's part? :dunno:

Oh, I doubt there was any intent on their part whatsoever.
They are likely defining a cycle differently is all. Who would have thought that a bunch of guys like us would go so far as to question and compare orbits?

Thanks for your time Kevin. It doesn't all quite add up to me but that is very interesting and if what you say is true then I would call that false advertising. In any case I suppose it doesn't matter. I love the Flex and how smooth it runs and found using a certain other DA to be taxing on my happiness. All that vibration reminds me of a jackhammer
Anyway, thanks again for breaking it down for me.

Thanks, and use what you like. To verify, all you need to do is spin the backing plate by hand and count the oscillations during one revolution... you should see a 10:1 ratio.

Is Kevin still releasing some sort of paper, report, or article on this. Maybe I am confused with someone else, I have terrible memory.

I am still working on it. I have been stuck on one small portion of it for weeks. I don't have the time to work on it non-stop, so sometimes it is difficult to pick up where I left off.I finally have the theory down now, but am writing and re-writing in order to make it as simple to understand as possible.

I don't know how well this paper is going to be received because it has become quite a read. I mean, I'm writing the thing and sometimes cannot believe how much is happening when we "buff paint". Crazy.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I posted this to the thread earlier and never got back to it...

I just took some pictures of a similar technique I use with the rotary buffer when working around edges and tight areas, I'll post them after I remove all the sanding marks out of the Elky.

Here's a little tip, anytime you're buffing next to an adjacent panel and it's possible you could run the vertical or side edge of your pad into the paint, lubricate it by working some of the product you're using on the face of the pad onto and into the foam. This will help to keep from generating too much heat and burning the paint and also in the case of these lower panels, help me to remove some of the sanding marks on the angled section.

It's this little long thin section I'm trying to improve and protect.

Picking up just a portion of the bead of product using the 10 @ 10 technique and then working it over a portion of this panel.

Note the safety glasses... don't want any splatter in my eyes...

After removing the sanding marks in the front portion of that panel I picked up my bead and tackled the rear portion...

My personal preference is not handle, if there is a handle I actually like a Stick Handle as I can quickly and easily either remove it or move it from side to side depending upon how it works best for the panel.

Before

Then Damp Sanded and Compounded and Polished

After...

Lots of this, always lots of this going on at the Autogeek Garaage...

:buffing: :buffing: :buffing: :buffing: :buffing:

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I don't know how well this paper is going to be received because it has become quite a read. I mean, I'm writing the thing and sometimes cannot believe how much is happening when we "buff paint". Crazy.

I'm positive it will be received well my friend.

A long time ago when I first started writing a Professional Copywriter told me,

There's no such thing as copy that's too long... just too boring...


What he meant was that if your content is interesting, if your content is compelling, then your reader will hang on every word and read it through to the end. He went on to say...

If your content is dry and boring, then you'll lose them after the first sentence or two...


The good news is, when you're passionate about your topic, it will come through in your writing. You have that going for you as you're always passionate about the topic of detailing cars and polishing paint specficially... that's what you and I have always had in common, we both like to polish paint.

So publish!

 

[CEE DOG]

That is why I would like to hear your comparison to the GG you just bought. IS the Flex really worth the diff in cost? I am sure it is a really nice machine regardless of the stated performance, but, are the GG and Megs closer than it appears?

I have used the GG and the Flex and the Flex is worth the difference in cost. I think even the biggest fan of the Griots will tell you that they would prefer the Flex over the Griots. I have seen huge proponents of the GG say they want to get the Flex. Most people I have talked to say "if you have the money to do it then get the Flex".

I would think that the rotation speed of these 3 machines when pressure is not being applied to them is not of much consequence. When they are being used they will have pressure applied to them for the majority of the process. At that time what is the rotation speed? The Flex is forced rotation so I would think that when pressure is applied to these machines (which is almost the entire time you are using them) the Flex is going to be turning at a higher speed)

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

I would think that the rotation speed of these 3 machines when pressure is not being applied to them is not of much consequence. When they are being used they will have pressure applied to them for the majority of the process. At that time what is the rotation speed? The Flex is forced rotation so I would think that when pressure is applied to these machines (which is almost the entire time you are using them) the Flex is going to be turning at a higher speed)

This is a very good point! I can tell you, the G110v2 and PCXP bog down pretty easy when pressure is applied, I've tried both. They *do not* compare to the Flex, IMO. I have the GG coming. It has a much more powerful motor than the G110v2 and PCXP, and even more powerful than the Flex! So, the big question is, will this powerful motor of the Griot's compare to the Flex under pressure? I can't wait to try for myself! :buffing: If it doesn't fall short under pressure, it will solve a few complaints I have with the Flex 3401.

 

[Harleyguy]

This is a very good point! I can tell you, the G110v2 and PCXP bog down pretty easy when pressure is applied, I've tried both. They *do not* compare to the Flex, IMO. I have the GG coming. It has a much more powerful motor than the G110v2 and PCXP, and even more powerful than the Flex! So, the big question is, will this powerful motor of the Griot's compare to the Flex under pressure? I can't wait to try for myself! :buffing: If it doesn't fall short under pressure, it will solve a few complaints I have with the Flex 3401.

I can't wait to see some pictures of your results you are going to get using all these machines you have.Please take some 50/50 shots and tell us which side you used what machine on and what pads.This should clear up any questions on what machine to use.:xyxthumbs:

 

[Bunky]

I have seen the many comments about the new vs traditional but I still see not much difference. There is more than one "traditional" technique. There are different efficiencies in any task like polishing.

In the "new" method, it appears that rather than putting a pattern of polish and then polishing and then the pad gets fully primed in several panels, in the new method you massage the polish thoroughly into the pad before starting to polish. I had done this to some extent without even knowing about the new method. Also, I had read it involves high pressure...I thought that was required anyway to get faster results -- as much pressure up to the point where the pad stops moving.

I get the view that the comparison is made to a polishing technique that is called traditional but we know if you do not prime the pad properly (nothing new about that) and do not apply sufficient pressure correction will take a long time.

As Mike was commenting, if you have two expert polishers using the new method versus another proven method, will one finish significantly faster with identical results? In a 8 hr job, unless the time savings is more than 1 hr is it really that more efficient?

I consider the shorter fixed working times of M105/M205 to be new. What is new about needing a primed pad?