Griot's ROP that much more powerful the PC 7424XP?

Would there be a user error for why the Griot's bummed out? Or just like all technology, there's always a bad egg every now and again?
 
I see at as buying a car. I wait after the first year of a new model. THere are bugs in a new design. They, for the most part, get worked out.
 
I've seen a lot of posts about problems with the Griots. The PC has been around since the dawn of time with few problems.
The only problems seen with the PC is when people try to use the KB method. Meaning way too much pressure to blow the motor.

I wrote this a while back in reference to the path of destruction left by guys using the "KBM":

From the detailingbliss forum:

As for all the grease splatters, busted shafts, wheezing and whirling noises surrounding these poor little machines... :doh:

I recommend that if you are experiencing these problems, you could do a few things about it. First- if you are finding all sorts of information on the forums telling you how to build a platform on your random orbital so that you can stand on it to add some "pressure", don't do it. The whole "pressure" thing has been overblown. The amount that should be used is dependent upon upon many factors. The buffing pad and buffing liquid types are certainly at the top of the list. Pad rotation is almost always mentioned when the "method" is discussed because it should be used as a gauge to help determine whether the combination you are using is working efficiently.

If you are having to press down extremely hard to notice an improvement in defect removal versus a normal amount of pressure, you need to either use a smaller diameter pad, a shorter pad, or a pad utilizing a different material. Another reason you may not be seeing a big improvement in defect removal may have to do with the machine's stroke diameter. If you are using a small stroke machine (3/32" or 3/16" is pretty small), try using a machine using a 5/16" or 3/4" orbit diameter.

FYI- The DeWalt DW443 and the Festool Rotex RO150 FEQ each have a 3/16" stroke, the Meguiar's G100/G110/G220, and the Porter Cable machines use a 5/16" stroke, while the Makita BO6040 has a 7/32" stroke diameter. The Dynabrade 61379/61384 Dual Action Buffing Head features a 3/4" stroke (talk about a random orbital on steroids!).


The original Griot's machine featured a 1/8" stroke and ample power: http://www.griotsgarage.com/text/pdf/10925.pdf
The new Griot's machine features a 5/16" stroke and ample power.: http://www.griotsgarage.com/text/pdf/10750.pdf

For some reason I thought the original Griot's featured a 3/16" stroke, but there it is in black & white on the specification sheet... 1/8"!
 
Just used the new version Griot's ROP and got stellar results! Im the MAN
 
For some reason I thought the original Griot's featured a 3/16" stroke, but there it is in black & white on the specification sheet... 1/8"!

Thanks for the good info Kevin... (as usual)


Just to comment...

I know a lot of people put a lot of emphasis on the orbit length of a dual action polisher as this is reflective of how aggressive a cutting or polishing action a tool can have. But we can't leave the rotating factor out as it's just as important a contributor to defect removal as the orbit factor.

Will everyone generally and even specifically agree with these statements?


For those that are experienced with using a rotary buffer, can we all agree that one of the reasons the rotary buffer is so effective at removing serious paint defects quickly and effectively is because it is a direct drive tool. This means the pad will rotate under pressure against the paint, (no matter what), when the trigger is squeezed?

That's assuming the rotary buffer is being used with some type of pad and product, which both offer cutting or abrading ability?

Does that make sense? Do we all agree? Can I get a second?


:)
 
I wrote this a while back in reference to the path of destruction left by guys using the "KBM":

From the detailingbliss forum:

As for all the grease splatters, busted shafts, wheezing and whirling noises surrounding these poor little machines... :doh:

I recommend that if you are experiencing these problems, you could do a few things about it. First- if you are finding all sorts of information on the forums telling you how to build a platform on your random orbital so that you can stand on it to add some "pressure", don't do it. The whole "pressure" thing has been overblown. The amount that should be used is dependent upon upon many factors. The buffing pad and buffing liquid types are certainly at the top of the list. Pad rotation is almost always mentioned when the "method" is discussed because it should be used as a gauge to help determine whether the combination you are using is working efficiently.

If you are having to press down extremely hard to notice an improvement in defect removal versus a normal amount of pressure, you need to either use a smaller diameter pad, a shorter pad, or a pad utilizing a different material. Another reason you may not be seeing a big improvement in defect removal may have to do with the machine's stroke diameter. If you are using a small stroke machine (3/32" or 3/16" is pretty small), try using a machine using a 5/16" or 3/4" orbit diameter.

FYI- The DeWalt DW443 and the Festool Rotex RO150 FEQ each have a 3/16" stroke, the Meguiar's G100/G110/G220, and the Porter Cable machines use a 5/16" stroke, while the Makita BO6040 has a 7/32" stroke diameter. The Dynabrade 61379/61384 Dual Action Buffing Head features a 3/4" stroke (talk about a random orbital on steroids!).

The original Griot's machine featured a 1/8" stroke and ample power: http://www.griotsgarage.com/text/pdf/10925.pdf
The new Griot's machine features a 5/16" stroke and ample power.: http://www.griotsgarage.com/text/pdf/10750.pdf

For some reason I thought the original Griot's featured a 3/16" stroke, but there it is in black & white on the specification sheet... 1/8"!
Have you used that festool rotex? I'm interested, espeacially with the option to switch from DA to forced rotation w/a switch.
 
Just to comment...

I know a lot of people put a lot of emphasis on the orbit length of a dual action polisher as this is reflective of how aggressive a cutting or polishing action a tool can have. But we can't leave the rotating factor out as it's just as important a contributor to defect removal as the orbit factor.

Will everyone generally and even specifically agree with these statements?

I agree but would like to add to this.

In the realm of paint polishing, orbit speed seems to be limited to upwards of 12,000 OPM/RPM. One oscillation IS one rotation of the drive spindle, unless the machine features some sort of gearing (I know of none commonly used for paint polishing). Most of the time, we are using machines that deliver a maximum of about 7,000 RPM. I surmise that there are more than a few reasons for these "speed limits". Trying to avoid a long post here so I won't jump into these "reasons" as they are merely observations.

Anyway- all other parameters being equal, a machine featuring a large stroke will create more centripetal force than a machine featuring a small stroke.

This is a big deal because centripetal force is the primary element that causes the backing plate to rotate. Therefore, if you use a machine with a large stroke size, you should generally see an increase in random pad rotation versus an identical machine featuring a short stroke.

Another thing about orbit size:
If the orbit size is doubled, the speed the in which the backing plate moves increased by two, but the cutting power more than doubles. That's a BIG statement, and it is not completely accurate because there is so much to consider. Like what?

Is the pad skimming or biting into the paint?

Are the abrasive particles attached to the pad and thus moving at the same rate of speed as the pad, or are the particles free to move about between the pad and paint surface?

Is the pad transferring the machine motion, or is the pad deflecting its shape, effectively negating the motion and converting the energy it into heat?


And on and on and on. Since there are so many things to consider, it is often easier to simplify or generalize specifications or statements.

FWIW- This is the kind of boring stuff I am putting into my paper. Im the MAN

Funny, but this reminds me of the whole random orbital "clutch versus no clutch" discussion. The idea of using a mechanical clutch to better explain how a random orbital works (as far as I know) was to relay to the average guy that the random orbital motion was akin to having a clutch in the machine that would engage or disengage when the pad was put under excess pressure. Thus, a statement that was originally similar to this:

The random orbital is safe to use because the machine acts like it has a "clutch" or features a "clutch-like action".

This was eventually changed to a statement was deemed to mean the machine literally employed a clutch.

So yes- I agree with the statement:

I know a lot of people put a lot of emphasis on the orbit length of a dual action polisher as this is reflective of how aggressive a cutting or polishing action a tool can have. But we can't leave the rotating factor out as it's just as important a contributor to defect removal as the orbit factor.

I agree, but I added all the extra stuff to avoid oversimplifying things. This is all REALLY cut down to the basics and we could debate this or that, and add all kinds of qualifiers and stuff... but wow would that make for a really long thread.

Thanks for helping the guys on this forum, Mike.
I'm sure the site has seen a dramatic increase of action since you joined the AG team! :dblthumb2:
 
Last edited:
Have you used that festool rotex? I'm interested, espeacially with the option to switch from DA to forced rotation w/a switch.

I have used it, and it is a BAD MAMMA-JAMMA!!! :buffing:

It has serious cutting power and is comfortable to use. If I were so inclined to want a dual mode machine, it is the one I would get. It has a high giggle factor.:wave:

Well, technically the Dynabrade #61379/#61384 Dual Action Buffing Head falls into the "dual mode" category, so it would be a must have, too!
 
I see at as buying a car. I wait after the first year of a new model. THere are bugs in a new design. They, for the most part, get worked out.
I didn't buy the first year(2006) of the C6 z06. I bought a 2007 z06 because they eliminated the flying roofs that the 06's had. The roof would literally fly off when you're driving! :eek:
 
I didn't buy the first year(2006) of the C6 z06. I bought a 2007 z06 because they eliminated the flying roofs that the 06's had. The roof would literally fly off when you're driving! :eek:

That was on the removable roofs not the roofs on the Z06 that are not removable.
 
That was on the removable roofs not the roofs on the Z06 that are not removable.
No.

That was a problem on the 06 z06's without the removable roof. The fixed roof(glued to the frame) was flying off. The 06 roofs were made of polycarbonate and had to be replaced with SMC roof panels. I'm a huge Corvette buff, I know. :xyxthumbs:
 
No.

That was a problem on the 06 z06's without the removable roof. The fixed roof(glued to the frame) was flying off. I'm a huge Corvette buff, I know. :xyxthumbs:

So am I since having 5 of them. I have never heard of the Z06 roofs coming apart though.
 
I you're curious, search "flying roof" on corvetteforum. There's tons of threads.

I read those when they first came out and never saw anything about the Z06 at the time. I guess the posts about the Z06 fixed roof came after I stopped reading the threads.
 
I saw the comments about Festool and have a friend who is a sales rep for them. (No I can't get a discount on them, I already asked.)

Anywho after seeing question popup a couple of times, I called him to see if he had a demo machine. And he actually owns one and will let me use it for a week or so. I'm going to start another thread about it. I have a test panel and if anybody would like to see anything specific, post and I'll try to accommodate.
 
I saw the comments about Festool and have a friend who is a sales rep for them. (No I can't get a discount on them, I already asked.)

Anywho after seeing question popup a couple of times, I called him to see if he had a demo machine. And he actually owns one and will let me use it for a week or so. I'm going to start another thread about it. I have a test panel and if anybody would like to see anything specific, post and I'll try to accommodate.
Get the Rotex 150
 
Get the Rotex 150

That's what he said he has. Said he would try to drop it off tomorrow night or synch up on Sat. I started a separate thread as to not hijack this one anymore. If you have any ideas of what you'd want to see from a test, please post.
 
Back
Top