Help me design my garage

[neuralfraud]

Dubbin1, I beg to differ with your take on lighting. Do not confuse perceived brightness with actual brightness. Color temperature is not the same as brightness. With 6500k temp, you get a very "sterile" type of light, if that doesn't bother you then by all means use 6500k bulbs.

I will give another example - There are two types of street lights - High Pressure Sodium, and Metal Halide. Both lights on their own have very different characteristics. One is very blue, the other very red or yellow. Combined they form a closer balance to white than either alone, and that is exactly what you get if you put the 2 different types of florescent bulb together. You do not lose brightness and you gain a more balanced reproduction of color throughout the entire spectrum.

Besides.. you wouldn't want an engine that provided 500 hp only between 5500-6000 rpm while from 0-5499 rpm you get 100... would you?

Same with torque curve. Builders have been fighting for decades to come up with a power curve that is as flat as possible. Sound engineers labor to reproduce the audible spectrum as flat as possible, and lighting engineers like their light as balanced as possible.

Now, does this not apply to car detailing too?

OP: This is just my opinion take it or leave it, don't meant to hijack with a personal argument over lighting

 

[vet]

Personally, I'd go with the semi-gloss white for the walls, to take advantage of the lights, and for cleaning the walls when necessary, but that's my preference. My floor is bare, and I'd like to do something with it, too. A friend has expoxy, and he told me it is SLICK when it gets wet. I don't know, but something to consider when deciding. I'm thinking a rubber type tile/mat might be the way to go. Again, I don't know, but you need to explore options, and go with what will work for you.

 

[Kurt_s]

We redid out garage when we bought our home. One of our friend's started a garage remodeling company and did all the work for us.

Paint
I recommend using a slightly off-white paint that it cleanable rather than a bright white. Easier on the eyes and not as stark. We used a flat white which is cleanable (more gloss than standard flat) with less gloss than satin. It won't show defects as much as a gloss finish. Patch your walls and throw a texture on the walls to hide what you don't smooth out, like the wall board tape lines. You might want to paint the ceiling a "ceiling white" to gain a little more reflectivity.

If you will use color on your floor, you might want to pick up that color for the contrast.

Cabinets
Our cabinets are white laminate which help make the space look larger than a darker color. Everything also looks clean and neat. I look in the Griot's catalog from time to time get lustful. Imagine polishing up a garage of those bad boys with a little Fuzion or your favorite sealant!

We have one wall with a modular hanger system for tools, hoses and what not. It really is nice to be able to customize and change your hanging system from time to time.

When the water heater goes in the garage, I will install an instant water heater and put a sink in the garage instead. That is something that I really wished with installed when we bought the house.

Flooring
We used 1/4" high interlocking tiles on the floor instead of epoxy coat. From what I have learned, the oil on your floor may be tough to remove so that the epoxy coat will bond properly. I looked at Epoxy and the flooring company was going to first clean then scrape the floor surface to remove the oils. That's why we went with interlocking tiles.

There are three downsides to the interlocking plastic tiles, 1) my concern about using floor jacks and jack stands that could cut and break the plastic tiles, 2) I can't rinse down the floor without leaving water under the plastic tiles and 3) it messed with the thresholds and bottoms of the door to the backyard. I personally wish that we had used a thinner, solid tile instead of the raised plastic for that reason.

We used a neutral light gray for most of the flooring surface and black for accent under the cabinets and workbench. It looks ok but it is still a pain to clean. I normally just use white vinegar and hot water so it doesn't get sticky from the cleaners that never really rinse clean.

Lighting
My wife wanted halogen track lighting in the garage for spot lighting. In many ways a big mistake. She's a realtor that wants pretty instead of actually using a garage, although the halogen's light color is pretty balanced. I still need to install a panel of fluorescents above my workbench as I never have enough light. I use a portable twin 500W halogen set up when I work on the car as the roll up garage panels would block any lighting I have above the car.

I'm not going to argue about light temperatures however if you use fluorescents, get the kind that are instant startup, don't take long to warm up and don't buzz. Spend the extra money since you will probably spend a lot of time in there.

Electrical
You can never have enough outlets and try to have at least two circuits in the work area. Don't forget to use GIF plugs for safety.

Work bench
I wish we didn't use the stupid laminated bench top and the drawer system we put under the workbench. I can't install my vise and the workbench is a little shorter than I like. I end up setting up a makeshift workbench outside instead.

I did invest in a nicer Craftsman roll around tool chest. I don't need to roll it around much but it makes it easier to clean behind it without lifting.

Extras
We have a small flat screen TV with cable which somes in handy when puttering. I will add a Sonos amp and speakers someday to extend our home music system to the garage. Nothing like having access to 500+ CDs plus music streaming when working in the garage. Just looking for a great deal for the amp or an S5 amp speaker.

I still need a compressor. Let me repeat. I still need a compressor. Love the idea about mounting one in the attic. I just dont' know how to drain it after using it.

Have Fun with your new garage. I like mine but learned a lot of things for the next house.

 

[Rhudeboye]

Very helpful Kurt. As they say, hind site is 20/20. I've heard before that some with tiles prefer the epoxy. I'm pretty sure that's the route I'm going. I will add the flakes and grit to provide traction when its wet.

Good painting tips as well. I'd love to see a few pics if you can.

 

[Dubbin1]

OP: This is just my opinion take it or leave it, don't meant to hijack with a personal argument over lighting

Like you said its your opinion, I have mine Trust me I have done what you said and was not happy at all with the results. The garage is MUCH brighter with the higher color temp bulbs. Any more then 6500K and then I would agree with you.

 

[Dubbin1]

Very helpful Kurt. As they say, hind site is 20/20. I've heard before that some with tiles prefer the epoxy. I'm pretty sure that's the route I'm going. I will add the flakes and grit to provide traction when its wet.

Good painting tips as well. I'd love to see a few pics if you can.

If you go with the UCoat It system then it will come with the sand and flakes. I don't recommend the flakes as it makes it hard to find small things when dropped and it makes the floor look dirty. Trust me the UCoat It is well worth the cost.

 

[Kurt_s]

Like you said its your opinion, I have mine Trust me I have done what you said and was not happy at all with the results. The garage is MUCH brighter with the higher color temp bulbs. Any more then 6500K and then I would agree with you.

I was looking at the Griot's catalog and their fluorescent lights used bulbs at 5000K which it mentioned as being closest to natural light. I would have figured that closer to sunlight would be better for detailing.

If you go with the UCoat It system then it will come with the sand and flakes. I don't recommend the flakes as it makes it hard to find small things when dropped and it makes the floor look dirty. Trust me the UCoat It is well worth the cost.

I know you've been working on your new shop (the pics look great). Does the UCoat It have problems with an oil saturated floor? If so, how did you get the floor clean?

Have you had any issues with the epoxy coming up if you use floor jacks and jack stands on it? That was the other concern I had with epoxy flooring.

Looking back on it, I wish that I could just rinse down my floor with a hose and squeegie it dry.

 

[Kurt_s]

Very helpful Kurt. As they say, hind site is 20/20. I've heard before that some with tiles prefer the epoxy. I'm pretty sure that's the route I'm going. I will add the flakes and grit to provide traction when its wet.

Good painting tips as well. I'd love to see a few pics if you can.

I can't find any pictures before 2006. I must have them on discs when I upgrade computers in 2005. We are having a party this weekend and my wife wants to use the garage for ping pong. I'll try to get pictures then.

I also wanted to take a new picture of my detailing collection as it seems that AG must have a special relationship with Santa.

 

[Dubbin1]

I know you've been working on your new shop (the pics look great). Does the UCoat It have problems with an oil saturated floor? If so, how did you get the floor clean?

Have you had any issues with the epoxy coming up if you use floor jacks and jack stands on it? That was the other concern I had with epoxy flooring.

Looking back on it, I wish that I could just rinse down my floor with a hose and squeegie it dry.

No problems at all with spills, the vette leaked both oil and brake fluid, it sat on the floor for a week and wiped right up without any evidence left behind.

Also no problems with it chipping, we have dropped more then one thing on it and it held up just fine. The epoxy in the old shop didn't stand up to much.

Oh and 5000k is way too yellow, I don;t care what their book says

 

[FUNX650]

A before pic of the garage we want: (Daytime View);

 

[FUNX650]

A before pic of the garage we want: (Daytime View);

An after pic of the same garage ( Night-time View for lighting effects): This is what we really, really want!!

 

[neuralfraud]

I was looking at the Griot's catalog and their fluorescent lights used bulbs at 5000K which it mentioned as being closest to natural light. I would have figured that closer to sunlight would be better for detailing.

You're better off experimenting and go with the choice you prefer best. Like I mentioned, I mixed two rather extremely different color temp bulbs to produce a satisfactory light output because I couldn't find anything that on it's own looked good - in my kitchen. I would personally apply the same principal to a garage, etc.

As Dubbin1 mentioned, the 5000k may be too yellow, but that isn't just personal taste...one thing I do want to mention though is that florescent bulbs do suffer from an issue which basically consists of the bulb emitting spikes at certain wavelengths, which can make things appear to be a different color whereas incandescent bulbs tend to not have this issue. That could also be one reason mixing different bulbs can help. IMHO, bulbs are cheap so buy a few different kinds, temps and experiment. I would honestly like to know what you come out with.. Whether or not we agree on the same method to achieve light perfection, we can all agree that we want to be able to see the work we're doing as good as possible

 

[Kurt_s]

No problems at all with spills, the vette leaked both oil and brake fluid, it sat on the floor for a week and wiped right up without any evidence left behind.

Also no problems with it chipping, we have dropped more then one thing on it and it held up just fine. The epoxy in the old shop didn't stand up to much.

Oh and 5000k is way too yellow, I don;t care what their book says

I'm not planning to buy a $300 light fixture from Griot's but I am looking for the right combination of fixture and light bulbs. I will keep your 6500K lights in mind. rops: Do you know the color temperature of bright white bulbs and GE reveal bulbs seem a little blue to me?

Regarding oil spills, does the UCoat It have problems bonding if not all of the oil on the floor is removed? The picture of the OPs garage floor was pretty stained and oil has a habit of absorbing into the pourous concrete. One company that I interviewed before going with the plastic tiles actually scrapes a layer off the concrete before applying the Epoxy.

 

[Kurt_s]

You're better off experimenting and go with the choice you prefer best. Like I mentioned, I mixed two rather extremely different color temp bulbs to produce a satisfactory light output because I couldn't find anything that on it's own looked good - in my kitchen. I would personally apply the same principal to a garage, etc.

As Dubbin1 mentioned, the 5000k may be too yellow, but that isn't just personal taste...one thing I do want to mention though is that florescent bulbs do suffer from an issue which basically consists of the bulb emitting spikes at certain wavelengths, which can make things appear to be a different color whereas incandescent bulbs tend to not have this issue. That could also be one reason mixing different bulbs can help. IMHO, bulbs are cheap so buy a few different kinds, temps and experiment. I would honestly like to know what you come out with.. Whether or not we agree on the same method to achieve light perfection, we can all agree that we want to be able to see the work we're doing as good as possible

I'm thinking of adding a 4 bulb fixture above the workbench which will also add light to an open engine compartment and the hood. I may try both Dwayne's 6500K and your mixed bulb suggestions and see what I like.

Happy New Year.

 

[2old2change]

Try looking at the garage journal.com for flooring and other garage info. This is a great garage guy site.rops:

 

[Dubbin1]

Regarding oil spills, does the UCoat It have problems bonding if not all of the oil on the floor is removed? The picture of the OPs garage floor was pretty stained and oil has a habit of absorbing into the pourous concrete. One company that I interviewed before going with the plastic tiles actually scrapes a layer off the concrete before applying the Epoxy.

UCoat It does sell a degreaser to help remove oil. After cleaning it you you acid etch the entire floor. There is alot of information on their site with frequently asked questions. UCoat It Do-it Yourself Floor Coatings for a Durable, Protective Finish You can also give them a call as they are more then happy to answer any question.

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

You're better off experimenting and go with the choice you prefer best. Like I mentioned, I mixed two rather extremely different color temp bulbs to produce a satisfactory light output because I couldn't find anything that on it's own looked good - in my kitchen. I would personally apply the same principal to a garage, etc.

It really depends how high your ceilings are as to whether or not mixing color temps is effective. If you have a high bay with 15'+ ceilings, the light has enough time to diffuse and disperse before hitting whatever you're looking at or working on, so mixing temps can work.

With a low bay (8'-15') the light is so intensely focused at viewing level that you will end up with a series of hot and cool spots where you'll clearly see a distinction between the two color temperatures reflecting off the surface(s) you're looking at. In these cases staying with one consistent color temp is more effective.

As Dubbin1 mentioned, the 5000k may be too yellow, but that isn't just personal taste...one thing I do want to mention though is that florescent bulbs do suffer from an issue which basically consists of the bulb emitting spikes at certain wavelengths, which can make things appear to be a different color whereas incandescent bulbs tend to not have this issue. That could also be one reason mixing different bulbs can help. IMHO, bulbs are cheap so buy a few different kinds, temps and experiment. I would honestly like to know what you come out with.. Whether or not we agree on the same method to achieve light perfection, we can all agree that we want to be able to see the work we're doing as good as possible

It is important to remember that not all fluorescent lamps are created equal in that regard. When looking for lamps to purchase, you should be paying particular attention to the CRI rating. CRI (Color Rendering Index) is the measure that determines how accurate colors appear to be when viewed under a given lamp's output. The higher the CRI, the less the lamp is affected by emitting spikes as you describe.

In pretty much all cases, a room full of high-CRI lamps in a single color temperature is going to be better than a room filled with lower CRI lamps in a mix of color temperatures.

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

I'm thinking of adding a 4 bulb fixture above the workbench which will also add light to an open engine compartment and the hood. I may try both Dwayne's 6500K and your mixed bulb suggestions and see what I like.

Happy New Year.

Kurt, there was just recently another thread about lighting that you may want to check out as well:

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-garage-accessories/30445-garage-lighting-suggestions-5.html

You'll find quite a few pics of my setup with a low bay and all 6500k lamps, as well as pics of another member's higher bay which also has all 6500k lamps.

 

[Kurt_s]

Kurt, there was just recently another thread about lighting that you may want to check out as well:

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-garage-accessories/30445-garage-lighting-suggestions-5.html

You'll find quite a few pics of my setup with a low bay and all 6500k lamps, as well as pics of another member's higher bay which also has all 6500k lamps.

I remember that thread. I keep looking at the lonely ceiling above my workbench and envision a nice bank of lights so I can see better.

I have to measure but I think that I can put the 8ft fixtures in place. Any particular place to get bulbs? I bought from ebulbs a couple years back with ok success.

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

Personally I've had success just sticking to Home Depot for 4' T8s, but if you're going to be looking for 8' T8s you might have to look elsewhere.