is a flex 3401 good for a beginner???

Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
The Flex will try to "Walk Away" if you hold it with more pressure on any one edge so it teaches you to hold it flat which is good technique in the first place.
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The was my whole idea behind the Flex being a bit harder to control on *non* flat panels. Logically thinking, if you're polishing a curved panel, it seems it would be pretty hard to keep the pad completely flat. This has been my experience. Polishing on Flat panels is a breeze with the Flex. I do not get this same "walk away" feeling on non-flat panels when polishing with a true DA. That's enough proof to me that forced rotation is harder to control at times.
 
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I have and use a Makita rotary, a flex 3401 and a Megs V2....

They are all good machines and I sometimes use all 3 on one vehicle...

I could never survive with JUST the flex due to the inability to use 4" pads....

The surbuf pads make correction a breeze with the Meg's V2

If your flex is "walking" on you that is because you are not holding the pad flat which, is not a fault of the machine but rather technique related
 
Deep Gloss Auto Salon said:
If your flex is "walking" on you that is because you are not holding the pad flat which, is not a fault of the machine but rather technique related
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I disagree. The Flex does not walk on me on flat panels, it's a breeze. On curved or any non flat panels, it tends to wander. I'm not saying it literally makes me feel like I'm completely out of control, it's just a drag to me. I do not have this problem on ANY panels with a true DA.
 
07 z-oh-6 said:
I disagree. The Flex does not walk on me on flat panels, it's a breeze. On curved or any non flat panels, it has a mind of its own. I'm not saying it literally makes me feel like I'm completely out of control, it's just a drag to me. I do not have this problem on ANY panels with a true DA.
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Interesting, I get NO walking with my flex or my rotary... but that was not always the case

Some questions:

Any techinical thoughts on why this is happening to you (walking with flex but not GG)...

If a Porter Cable/GG/Megs V2 and a Flex are both dual action machines how/why would one walk on you and the other not?
 
Deep Gloss Auto Salon said:
Some questions:

Any techinical thoughts on why this is happening to you (walking with flex but not GG)...

If both a Porter Cable/GG/Megs V2 and a Flex are both dual action machines how/why would one walk on you and the other not?
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The G110v2, GG, and PCXP are *true* dual action polishers. The Flex has a DA motion, but it also has forced rotation, the others do not. It's a "hybrid". I believe the forced rotation has a lot do the flex wandering. Could have something to do with the counter clockwise rotation as well. Makes sense to me. :)
 
07 z-oh-6 said:
The G110v2, GG, and PCXP are *true* dual action polishers. The Flex has a DA motion, but it also has forced rotation, the others do not. It's a "hybrid". I believe the forced rotation has a lot do the flex wandering. Could have something to do with the counter clockwise rotation. Makes sense to me. :)
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The forced rotation is so the user can still have rotation even after applying loads of pressure to the machine - (no bogging down :xyxthumbs:).


If it is making the same "motion" I don't see why one would walk and another not?

Not saying you are wrong, just thinking things out here... I am not saying you are not having an issue with the machine walking but rather, do not buy into "why" the machine walks on you...

The machine "walking" is not something that I had an issue with after tuning my techinique.
 
Deep Gloss Auto Salon said:
The forced rotation is so the user can still have rotation even after applying loads of pressure to the machine - (no bogging down :xyxthumbs:).


If it is making the same "motion" I don't see why one would walk and another not?


The machine "walking" is not something that I had an issue with after tuning my techinique.
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Even when I polish on a flat panel with a DA, if the pad is not completely flat, it won't try to wander like the Flex 3401. That should say something about whatever the makes the Flex different(not exactly sure what it is, but I think it's the forced rotation).

What I do know, is that I do not have problems with a DA trying to walk on me on any panel. It could be I never fine tuned whatever I needed to with my technique with the Flex, but that doesn't matter anymore because I just sold it. :)
 
07 z-oh-6 said:
That should say something about whatever makes the Flex different (not exactly sure what it is, but I think it's the forced rotation).
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One of the reasons a Flex 3401 has this walking-effect is because of the larger throw or orbit the tool offers.

If you purposefully hold the Flex 3401 on edge, as you're running it you can feel the whomp, whomp, whomp of the tool as it tries to walk away, the PC style tools have a much smaller throw and also the Free Floating Spindle Assemble that pretty much stops the pad from rotating when on edge anyways so you don't experience this effect.

Again, good technique is holding the pad flat to the surface and the tool itself has a way of training you to do this as you use it.

It's not really a negative feature, just a different characteristic that goes with it's positive attributes.

Everyone's different and each person finds their own way in the detailing world....


:)
 
FWIW

From this thread dated 9-21-2009

1957 Chevrolet Belair Extreme Makeover - Flex 3401 & Wolfgang Smackdown!


This was the first time I ever buffed out an entire car using only the Flex 3401 and from this one experience here's just one observation posted to the above thread...


Mike Phillips said:
The Flex 3401 is easier to learn and control than a true rotary buffer but more difficult than a Porter Cable style dual action polisher. The key to keeping the tool easy to use is keeping the pad flat whenever you're working on flat surfaces.
57TuqChev080.jpg
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So like any tool, a big part of how it performs, how you like it and the results you get all start with using good technique.


:)
 
I'm a newbie, I have a bum shoulder. I've used the Flex and the GG. The Flex is far easier to use. IMHO.
 
07 z-oh-6 said:
Even when I polish on a flat panel with a DA, if the pad is not completely flat, it won't try to wander like the Flex 3401. That should say something about whatever the makes the Flex different(not exactly sure what it is, but I think it's the forced rotation).
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Could be due to the flex having more orbits/power... could also be due to the throw as Mike mentioned... Either way, I just wouldnt want to see someone be turned off to the flex due to reading an account of the machine walking when that is not a weakness of the machine but due to keeping the pad flat...

Please don't take this as me picking on you but rather a situation where I experienced the same thing and resolved it....

Jason
 
Deep Gloss Auto Salon said:
I just wouldnt want to see someone be turned off to the flex due to reading an account of the machine walking when that is not a weakness of the machine but due to keeping the pad flat...

Please don't take this as me picking on you but rather a situation where I experienced the same thing and resolved it....

Jason
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:iagree:

As I mentioned earlier, I used the Flex this past weekend and it was my very FIRST time using ANY type of machine polisher. I had NO problem. Although I did experience the machine "walking" a couple of times, it did not concern me. It is nothing to be discouraged about. It isn't a feeling that the machine is going to go out of control and run away from you. It is more of a slight "pull" the machine gives. I never once felt like I didn't have the machine under control. As long as you are paying attention to what you are doing and using both hands you shouldn't have a problem.

I am very happy I went with the Flex. Although I don't have experience with any other machine, if I had gone with the PC, GG or Meg's V2 I would always be wondering if the results I got could have been better if I went with the Flex.

Furthermore, I did not have a problem with the 6.5" sized pads. The places that were too small to get with the Flex, I simply did by hand and those places were very few. If smaller pad size is important I would suggest starting with the Edge Adapter and pads from the beginning before putting a lot of money into a collection of LC pads. With the Edge adapter you can easily swap between the different sized Edge pads with a simple push on the release button. Plus the Edge pads are automatically centered on the Flex without any fuss. :xyxthumbs: Although I didn't go with the Edge Adapter and pads, it may be something I do in the future.
 
i left for 8 hours and got 2 more pages of info wow what a great forum. well after reading im still leaning towards the flex. the "walking" makes me somewhat nervous but i think after 1 panel i would get the hang of the machine for it wont have that slight pull. also thanks mike for the excellent write up link it made me more aware of the differences of the machines. preparing to get a flex, what else should i look into??? any weights or adapters that are a must have?
 
Also, I mentioned earlier in this thread, I'm in the very few percentage of people who didn't like the Flex as much as others. To the OP, the odds are definitely in your favor that you will like the Flex 3401. :xyxthumbs:
 
Guys, you can use 3"/4" foam pads on the flex. I do all the time. It is even more effective!
 
07 z-oh-6 said:
Also, I mentioned earlier in this thread, I'm in the very few percentage of people who didn't like the Flex as much as others. To the OP, the odds are definitely in your favor that you will like the Flex 3401. :xyxthumbs:
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I don't think I've seen anybody else say that they didn't like the Flex...


tdekany said:
Guys, you can use 3"/4" foam pads on the flex. I do all the time. It is even more effective!
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Going down to 3" with a backing plate that much larger can be a risky business...
 
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