Labocosmetica 2ph system...Alkaline & ACIDIC, questions

[CleanIT]

Yeah I watched the beginning of that video, almost posted it but got busy

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I'm not sure how much weight I put on his SDS breakdowns. I get it, chemicals can be a hazard to your health. But at what dilution are we talking about? These RW products are 95% water.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I'm not sure how much weight I put on his SDS breakdowns. I get it, chemicals can be a hazard to your health. But at what dilution are we talking about? These RW products are 95% water.

Yeah, the one that he was complaining about being "fatal in contact with skin" is listed at <.0015% and the other one he didn't like, was <.05%. So those are very small percentages to begin with, and much smaller when diluted at 1:256. Still, hard to argue with wearing gloves.

I've only gotten about 10 minutes into it, what do you fellows make of the "mixing in a teaspoon of dirt" test? When Optimum did that I was a little skeptical about what that was really demonstrating--in both cases we don't know what the "dirt" is, and how that relates to what comes off your car.

 

[Klasse Act]

Yeah, the one that he was complaining about being "fatal in contact with skin" is listed at
I've only gotten about 10 minutes into it, what do you fellows make of the "mixing in a teaspoon of dirt" test? When Optimum did that I was a little skeptical about what that was really demonstrating--in both cases we don't know what the "dirt" is, and how that relates to what comes off your car.

I never wear gloves except when installing a coating

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[BrrrBrrr is verified member.]

When you say "Primus in 3pH", what does that mean exactly

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I believe he meant that Labo pushes their 3pH system and from what my understanding was of the 3pH, you spray Primus first... let dwell, rinse off.. spray Purifica on.. let dwell, rinse off.. then contact wash with Semper...

Or that's what the video showed on YouTube of them doing a teal Porsche . So that's what I did and I wasn't impressed at all with that 3pH method.

 

[CleanIT]

Yeah, the one that he was complaining about being "fatal in contact with skin" is listed at <.0015% and the other one he didn't like, was <.05%. So those are very small percentages to begin with, and much smaller when diluted at 1:256. Still, hard to argue with wearing gloves.

That's what I'm thinking. He's not taking into account that these chemicals are being highly diluted in water, to the point where 95% of the bottle you buy is water. As you said, gloves are always a safe bet but I think he's making a big deal out of nothing. I do appreciate him taking the time though to break down some of the SDS components.

 

[Klasse Act]

I believe he meant that Labo pushes their 3pH system and from what my understanding was of the 3pH, you spray Primus first... let dwell, rinse off.. spray Purifica on.. let dwell, rinse off.. then contact wash with Semper...

Or that's what the video showed on YouTube of them doing a teal Porsche . So that's what I did and I wasn't impressed at all with that 3pH method.

2 pre-washes

When I'm preppin' for something like a coating I'm going to use an iron remover on bare paint, follow with something like Descale, rinse and follow up with Bilt-Hamber Touchless and rinse and then do a 2BM

Is this what they're calling for most washes or just a decon wash

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[Setec Astronomy]

I never wear gloves except when installing a coating

As Renny Doyle pointed out many years ago, "if it's on you, it's in you". And of course...an ounce of protection is worth a pound of cure.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

That's what I'm thinking. He's not taking into account that these chemicals are being highly diluted in water, to the point where 95% of the bottle you buy is water. As you said, gloves are always a safe bet but I think he's making a big deal out of nothing. I do appreciate him taking the time though to break down some of the SDS components.

He gets a little crazy with this stuff, I was watching his Gyeon EcoWash review and he was harping on the surfactant ingredient, SLES (Sodium Laureth Sulfate). He suggests you need safety glasses and gloves, etc. First of all, it's only at 1% in the product, and USING HIS OWN REFERENCE from his comments, here is the description:

Sodium laureth sulfate (SLES) is a very effective foaming agent. It is an anionic detergent and surfactant found in many personal care products such as soaps, shampoos, toothpaste. Used in wetting agent formulations, liquid detergents, cleaners, shampoos and laundry detergents.

So if he thinks you need PPE to wash your car with this, what are you supposed to do if it's in your (hair) shampoo? Anybody who has read a shampoo or body wash label knows that this stuff and similar surfactants are in these kind of products.

EDIT: I forgot he also suggested you might want to wear a respirator while using EcoWash...I'm going to put mine next to the shower right now. Eesh. The problem with reading SDS's, and why most sellers don't want to give them to us, is that the warnings (I think) are for the neat ingredient. I'm sure 100% SLES is irritating etc., except it's in EcoWash at 1%, and therefore in my 1:256 rinseless solution at .004%

 

[CleanIT]

He gets a little crazy with this stuff, I was watching his Gyeon EcoWash review and he was harping on the surfactant ingredient, SLES (Sodium Laureth Sulfate). He suggests you need safety glasses and gloves, etc. First of all, it's only at 1% in the product, and USING HIS OWN REFERENCE from his comments, here is the description:

Sodium laureth sulfate (SLES) is a very effective foaming agent. It is an anionic detergent and surfactant found in many personal care products such as soaps, shampoos, toothpaste. Used in wetting agent formulations, liquid detergents, cleaners, shampoos and laundry detergents.

So if he thinks you need PPE to wash your car with this, what are you supposed to do if it's in your (hair) shampoo? Anybody who has read a shampoo or body wash label knows that this stuff and similar surfactants are in these kind of products.

EDIT: I forgot he also suggested you might want to wear a respirator while using EcoWash...I'm going to put mine next to the shower right now. Eesh. The problem with reading SDS's, and why most sellers don't want to give them to us, is that the warnings (I think) are for the neat ingredient. I'm sure 100% SLES is irritating etc., except it's in EcoWash at 1%, and therefore in my 1:256 rinseless solution at .004%

Here was his reply, to my reply, about the chemicals being diluted:

"“Thinking or believing” that the concentrations of possible dangerous chemical(s) are so LOW and its mostly 95%+ water in a given RW chemical formulation and should be or is safe to use is very “dangerous thinking.” Concentration dependency is one thing in chemistry mixture while dilution or dissolution of the chemical(s) in mixture is another thing and finally the choice of chemical(s) used for a given application is MOST important. A chemical’s quality (often good chemicals are expensive) plays a BIG factor how a chemical(s) works and chemically reacts for an intended or applied application(s) as well.So, lets follow the thinking pattern the concentration is so LOW that it won’t cause any harm; I’m good to go. … For example, “sulfuric acid” can be dangerous at concentrations as low as 1 mg/m3 and that is extremely less in total chemical volume from one single droplet from an eye dropper. That amount will eat your clearcoat and paint substrates very easy. To reiterate, chemical choice (chemicals selected) and not its concentration level determines how dangerous it is as there are chemical in volume less than a needle point (usually measured in microliters (µL)) that WILL cause dangerous chemical reactions on substrates regardless how diluted it is in a buffing agent like water. You may get away with a couple applications before true damage occurs or is seen as “time” on the panel truly determines the amount of damage that’s occurs as it reacts to the surface substrate (more time on panel = more damage and that's why they tell you do not let it dry on the panel). In addition, this RW chemical had two distinct chemical reactions with two different mediums made of two different substrates – so if was so safe because of the very LOW concentrations - this would NOT have happened also disproving the belief low concentration wont chemically react. The reason SDS sheet exists to identify dangerous chemicals (regardless of concentration level) to humans and ranked by a category hazard identifier. … Know, chemicals used in a chemical formulation and their “exact” chemical concentration level is proprietary to the manufacturer’s formulation recipe and that’s why a percentage range is always given. It’s always your choice, your beliefs and your health - I rather use safer detail products for my health and to do no harm to the vehicle."

 

[CleanIT]

Reggy actually responded to me. He basically said he is right, but the chemicals are neat. When diluted not as much of a concern but you should wear gloves.

He said if this guy thinks these chemicals are bad, you should what is in the DIY Standard Polish. Highly carcinogenetic chemical that no one else in the world is using. He said wait until he reads that SDS LOL.

 

[BrrrBrrr is verified member.]

2 pre-washes

When I'm preppin' for something like a coating I'm going to use an iron remover on bare paint, follow with something like Descale, rinse and follow up with Bilt-Hamber Touchless and rinse and then do a 2BM

Is this what they're calling for most washes or just a decon wash

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Woops. It was blue porsche not teal, but this was the video I watched when I first got the 3pH system.

 

[Klasse Act]

Here was his reply, to my reply, about the chemicals being diluted:

"“Thinking or believing” that the concentrations of possible dangerous chemical(s) are so LOW and its mostly 95%+ water in a given RW chemical formulation and should be or is safe to use is very “dangerous thinking.” Concentration dependency is one thing in chemistry mixture while dilution or dissolution of the chemical(s) in mixture is another thing and finally the choice of chemical(s) used for a given application is MOST important. A chemical’s quality (often good chemicals are expensive) plays a BIG factor how a chemical(s) works and chemically reacts for an intended or applied application(s) as well.So, lets follow the thinking pattern the concentration is so LOW that it won’t cause any harm; I’m good to go. … For example, “sulfuric acid” can be dangerous at concentrations as low as 1 mg/m3 and that is extremely less in total chemical volume from one single droplet from an eye dropper. That amount will eat your clearcoat and paint substrates very easy. To reiterate, chemical choice (chemicals selected) and not its concentration level determines how dangerous it is as there are chemical in volume less than a needle point (usually measured in microliters (µL)) that WILL cause dangerous chemical reactions on substrates regardless how diluted it is in a buffing agent like water. You may get away with a couple applications before true damage occurs or is seen as “time” on the panel truly determines the amount of damage that’s occurs as it reacts to the surface substrate (more time on panel = more damage and that's why they tell you do not let it dry on the panel). In addition, this RW chemical had two distinct chemical reactions with two different mediums made of two different substrates – so if was so safe because of the very LOW concentrations - this would NOT have happened also disproving the belief low concentration wont chemically react. The reason SDS sheet exists to identify dangerous chemicals (regardless of concentration level) to humans and ranked by a category hazard identifier. … Know, chemicals used in a chemical formulation and their “exact” chemical concentration level is proprietary to the manufacturer’s formulation recipe and that’s why a percentage range is always given. It’s always your choice, your beliefs and your health - I rather use safer detail products for my health and to do no harm to the vehicle."

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[Klasse Act]

Here was his reply, to my reply, about the chemicals being diluted:

"“Thinking or believing” that the concentrations of possible dangerous chemical(s) are so LOW and its mostly 95%+ water in a given RW chemical formulation and should be or is safe to use is very “dangerous thinking.” Concentration dependency is one thing in chemistry mixture while dilution or dissolution of the chemical(s) in mixture is another thing and finally the choice of chemical(s) used for a given application is MOST important. A chemical’s quality (often good chemicals are expensive) plays a BIG factor how a chemical(s) works and chemically reacts for an intended or applied application(s) as well.So, lets follow the thinking pattern the concentration is so LOW that it won’t cause any harm; I’m good to go. … For example, “sulfuric acid” can be dangerous at concentrations as low as 1 mg/m3 and that is extremely less in total chemical volume from one single droplet from an eye dropper. That amount will eat your clearcoat and paint substrates very easy. To reiterate, chemical choice (chemicals selected) and not its concentration level determines how dangerous it is as there are chemical in volume less than a needle point (usually measured in microliters (µL)) that WILL cause dangerous chemical reactions on substrates regardless how diluted it is in a buffing agent like water. You may get away with a couple applications before true damage occurs or is seen as “time” on the panel truly determines the amount of damage that’s occurs as it reacts to the surface substrate (more time on panel = more damage and that's why they tell you do not let it dry on the panel). In addition, this RW chemical had two distinct chemical reactions with two different mediums made of two different substrates – so if was so safe because of the very LOW concentrations - this would NOT have happened also disproving the belief low concentration wont chemically react. The reason SDS sheet exists to identify dangerous chemicals (regardless of concentration level) to humans and ranked by a category hazard identifier. … Know, chemicals used in a chemical formulation and their “exact” chemical concentration level is proprietary to the manufacturer’s formulation recipe and that’s why a percentage range is always given. It’s always your choice, your beliefs and your health - I rather use safer detail products for my health and to do no harm to the vehicle."

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[Karl_in_Chicago]

Here was his reply, to my reply, about the chemicals being diluted:

"“Thinking or believing” that the concentrations of possible dangerous chemical(s) are so LOW and its mostly 95%+ water in a given RW chemical formulation and should be or is safe to use is very “dangerous thinking.” Concentration dependency is one thing in chemistry mixture while dilution or dissolution of the chemical(s) in mixture is another thing and finally the choice of chemical(s) used for a given application is MOST important. A chemical’s quality (often good chemicals are expensive) plays a BIG factor how a chemical(s) works and chemically reacts for an intended or applied application(s) as well.So, lets follow the thinking pattern the concentration is so LOW that it won’t cause any harm; I’m good to go. … For example, “sulfuric acid” can be dangerous at concentrations as low as 1 mg/m3 and that is extremely less in total chemical volume from one single droplet from an eye dropper. That amount will eat your clearcoat and paint substrates very easy. To reiterate, chemical choice (chemicals selected) and not its concentration level determines how dangerous it is as there are chemical in volume less than a needle point (usually measured in microliters (µL)) that WILL cause dangerous chemical reactions on substrates regardless how diluted it is in a buffing agent like water. You may get away with a couple applications before true damage occurs or is seen as “time” on the panel truly determines the amount of damage that’s occurs as it reacts to the surface substrate (more time on panel = more damage and that's why they tell you do not let it dry on the panel). In addition, this RW chemical had two distinct chemical reactions with two different mediums made of two different substrates – so if was so safe because of the very LOW concentrations - this would NOT have happened also disproving the belief low concentration wont chemically react. The reason SDS sheet exists to identify dangerous chemicals (regardless of concentration level) to humans and ranked by a category hazard identifier. … Know, chemicals used in a chemical formulation and their “exact” chemical concentration level is proprietary to the manufacturer’s formulation recipe and that’s why a percentage range is always given. It’s always your choice, your beliefs and your health - I rather use safer detail products for my health and to do no harm to the vehicle."

Yeah, OK, I think he's really going out of his way to stretch a point there. Honestly I think there's more dangerous concentrations of bad things in the rain that falls here than anything I intend to be spraying on my vehicles.

 

[Klasse Act]

So when I use this Labocosmetica Alkaline I plan on spraying the lower sections, letting it sit 5 mins, then pre-treating with whatever RW I'm using and clean as normal. I don't have to go crazy and ovetsatursted with Alkaline, right

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[Setec Astronomy]

So when I use this Labocosmetica Alkaline I plan on spraying the lower sections, letting it sit 5 mins, then pre-treating with whatever RW I'm using and clean as normal. I don't have to go crazy and ovetsatursted with Alkaline, right

That sounds right to me, just don't drink any of it.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

He said if this guy thinks these chemicals are bad, you should what is in the DIY Standard Polish. Highly carcinogenetic chemical that no one else in the world is using. He said wait until he reads that SDS LOL.

This is the last straw! No more DIY polish on my hot dogs, I'm going back to mustard. It's just I got a much more even coating with the spray nozzle...oh well.

In seemingly related news, I just read the FDA has banned Red Dye No. 3, because it causes cancer in rats. On the off chance that Red Dye No. 3 is used in Wolfgang Uber or DG 931 or FoamNR (ONR Hyper Foam), I'm going to recommend if you have a pet rat, you make him wear gloves when he's washing his car.

 

[Klasse Act]

This guy's Canadian, Pan and Ivan are Canadian...I want my old school Canadians back (also mix in a Stanley Cup while your at it too)

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[CleanIT]

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[CleanIT]