Mr. Pink conspiracy theory

to all,

Someone mentioned a while back that the sudsing factor might have to do with the water being used. I think that's an great point pertinent to the subject at hand.
Has anyone done a survey with the inmates here who know whether the water emerging from their hoses is hard or soft? We hear about its contributing factor when we use soap or shampoo in the shower. It has to be taken into consideration, I feel, regarding the sudsiblity of our auto soaps as well.

elliot
 
quebert said:
Before I got my sports car last year I had no idea how many different soaps were out there. Let alone that the term "car shampoo" even existed. Autozone had 5 or 6 different ones, and I liked the Turtle Wax one with the little exfoliating bead looking thingies in it. When I found this site and saw all the different soaps I was like JEBUS. I was doubly blown away at the in-depth debates on the forums about soap.

I've haven't tried Mr. Pink *yet* but I bet compared to that Turtle Wax stuff I used it would be godly lol. I went to the CG store in Santa Ana, them having like 8 different soaps didn't make my decision any easier. And their YT videos with Greg making all sorts of cute sexual innuendos doesn't help much.

They could stand to thin out their product line a bit, and they could also make more informative videos. I love the stuff I bought there and will be returning soon, but it seems like all they care about is having a dozen products that do the same thing and trying to be funny in videos.
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Couldn't agree more...
6-7 Weeks ago when I started learning about detailing, I wanted to watch videos more then anything... best way to learn is to watch someone do it. I've even watched several videos multiple times to help it sink in... and i'm sure there's more to come.

The main videos I came across was from AG, CG and The Junkman. All have been extremely helpful to get me where I am today, and I feel very confident to start working on my vehicle. With that said, the CG site is not great, their individual product pages to not have the same helpful info that the AG pages do. Perfect example is the MF section of the site. They have lots of towels, but there is no info in the thickness of "pile" of any towel, whereas AG talkes about a "530" or "350" etc.. and what towel would work well for what job etc.
Soaps... well, I read it on this site, and now can easily see it for myself... CG has way too much overlap from one product to another...
If they have 10 soaps, 9 of them are really the same, with a different colour and smell. As you said, thin out the product line, really tell people what it's best used for - and i'm sure they would do much better.

Mike's video's from AG are great... and what I really appreciate even more is him commenting on the forum. I'm easily still a novice, but everyday there's another thread from a" newbie looking for help ", and there's always help available.

After weeks of reading up and doing homework, i'm still learning about new products I haven't heard of before - and constantly changing my shopping cart. I need to pull the trigger soon... won't be able to afford it soon!
 
michelliot said:
to all,

Someone mentioned a while back that the sudsing factor might have to do with the water being used. I think that's an great point pertinent to the subject at hand.
Has anyone done a survey with the inmates here who know whether the water emerging from their hoses is hard or soft? We hear about its contributing factor when we use soap or shampoo in the shower. It has to be taken into consideration, I feel, regarding the sudsiblity of our auto soaps as well.

elliot
Click to expand...

I think that you are referring to me as the one mentioning the condition of the water... I like where you are going with the idea of testing this out. I am thinking that this summer maybe I will purchase a PH test kit along with the needed chemicals to adjust the PH, high or low. What I can then do is create various buckets of shampoo using different PH levels in each and see if there really is any kind of difference in the suds that are produced. My guess is that hard vs soft water is not going to affect the suds as much as it will cause water spots and increased swirls in the paint.

Something to think about I will need to do some more research into water hardness before conducting the test to make sure that the test will work...
 
Photecs said:
Couldn't agree more...
6-7 Weeks ago when I started learning about detailing, I wanted to watch videos more then anything... best way to learn is to watch someone do it. I've even watched several videos multiple times to help it sink in... and i'm sure there's more to come.

The main videos I came across was from AG, CG and The Junkman. All have been extremely helpful to get me where I am today, and I feel very confident to start working on my vehicle. With that said, the CG site is not great, their individual product pages to not have the same helpful info that the AG pages do. Perfect example is the MF section of the site. They have lots of towels, but there is no info in the thickness of "pile" of any towel, whereas AG talkes about a "530" or "350" etc.. and what towel would work well for what job etc.
Soaps... well, I read it on this site, and now can easily see it for myself... CG has way too much overlap from one product to another...
If they have 10 soaps, 9 of them are really the same, with a different colour and smell. As you said, thin out the product line, really tell people what it's best used for - and i'm sure they would do much better.

Mike's video's from AG are great... and what I really appreciate even more is him commenting on the forum. I'm easily still a novice, but everyday there's another thread from a" newbie looking for help ", and there's always help available.

After weeks of reading up and doing homework, i'm still learning about new products I haven't heard of before - and constantly changing my shopping cart. I need to pull the trigger soon... won't be able to afford it soon!
Click to expand...

Chemical Guys makes some great products, but I will agree with you there website is bad... really bad as far as providing information. I find it best to use sites such as this one to gather information, Mike's videos and posts are great. The microfiber towels they make seem like they are great, but you are right the lack of information provided in regards to them makes it very difficult if not impossible to purchase the correct towel for a given job.

As far as the overlap goes I don't actually think that they are selling one product as two products by just sticking a different name on it. I truly believe that there are differences they may be very very small differences, but there are differences. For this to make since you have to understand Chemical Guys's and what they started out doing.... Chemical Guys started out in California selling only to local detailers. As we all know every detailer has there own specific way of doing things and they all want a very specific product for doing it. Take for example Mr.Pink vs Maxi Suds II on the surface they look the same, but there not there are slight differences in the smell, slickness, amount of foam, and dilution ratio. While you and I may look at this and say they are pretty much the same thing, but one costs more and smells different someone else may say that one is perfect for the job they are working on and the other is not. Essentially Chemical Guys set out to create a line up of products that would appeal to nearly every detailer on the market. However this can clearly create issues due to the confusion of there website and what appears to be product overlap.

Ultimately I think the information that you find on the internet for items such as car shampoo should simply be used to guide your decision on the product that you use and not be what ultimately dictates which product you buy and use. I like to say that for every negative review you find on a product you can generally find at least one positive review.
 
CG Citrus Wash and Gloss, Honeydew, Maxi-Suds, and Mr. Pink are not the same formulation. Mr. Pink is "thinner" but then it is diluted less.

I think some of CG's products come from their parent company Warner Chemical (Instafinish brand) that markets to the high volume car wash places and derivations of private label versions created. We know everyone does not want to use the same soap as everyone so like Proctor and Gamble they have multiple choices for scent, foam, etc.
 
I was thinking about trying the CG meticulous matte auto wash as since it was specifically created for matte finishes it probably does not contain any "gloss intensifiers" which I thought might be optimal for a vehicle with a dedicated coating.

In that aspect, I'm fine with their multiple offerings. But it would seem that particular soap has a very dedicated purpose, of which I am looking to put to use for an ulterior purpose.

What I think I've really found though, is that I just need to be a bit more intense with the pressure washer on the final rinse to remove any soap film residue. It rained today and I got some great beading and sheeting shots from the PBL surface coating which I had previously thought had diminished in Its abilities.

IMAG0647_zpsfwkv2tm6.jpg



IMAG0648_zps1b7j6gkv.jpg
 
aim4squirrels said:
I was thinking about trying the CG meticulous matte auto wash as since it was specifically created for matte finishes it probably does not contain any "gloss intensifiers" which I thought might be optimal for a vehicle with a dedicated coating.
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I used CG Meticulous matte detail spray for the first time a couple weeks ago on some matte black wheels and it worked great.

I was going to do a write up but it leaves my wheels nice with NO water spots in my first use. You can spray on, wipe fairly well (some in nooks and crannies), and the rest evaporates leaving a clean spot free surface.

I am not sure if the wash is that much chemically different.
 
Bunky said:
I used CG Meticulous matte detail spray for the first time a couple weeks ago on some matte black wheels and it worked great.

I was going to do a write up but it leaves my wheels nice with NO water spots in my first use. You can spray on, wipe fairly well (some in nooks and crannies), and the rest evaporates leaving a clean spot free surface.

I am not sure if the wash is that much chemically different.
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It's definitely one I'm going to try, I think. But right now I've simply got too much soap on hand to justify buying more. I have:

1/4 gallon of DP xtreme foam left to burn through the foam cannon,
2/3 a gallon of Maxi Suds 2 used for wheels and wheel wells,
1 full gallon of Honeydew unopened for the foam cannon and,
1 1/2 gallons of Optimum Car wash I use specifically for the 2BW.

At some point I'd like to boil it down to 1 soap, or 2 max if one works particularly good as a foamer, but not in the bucket.

Each time I change LSP's, I feel like my needs change a bit, LOL.
 
RubbishReview said:
I think that you are referring to me as the one mentioning the condition of the water... I like where you are going with the idea of testing this out. I am thinking that this summer maybe I will purchase a PH test kit along with the needed chemicals to adjust the PH, high or low. What I can then do is create various buckets of shampoo using different PH levels in each and see if there really is any kind of difference in the suds that are produced. My guess is that hard vs soft water is not going to affect the suds as much as it will cause water spots and increased swirls in the paint.

Something to think about I will need to do some more research into water hardness before conducting the test to make sure that the test will work...
Click to expand...

If you want to do the test, focus on one thing or other. The above looks like some combination of pH and hardness which you are looking at. So either keep the tests at fixed pH or at fixed hardness. IMO, the latter is of more pertinence to this forum. You could adjust some water to the necessary hardness and then use it for a bucket wash. Realistically I would imagine that you should mainly see differences down to water spotting.

Adjusting pH is a minefield. For starters, what do you adjust it with? Strong acid/strong base? Are they representative of the formulation? Weak acids/bases - which ones? There are thousands of possibilities and a good chemist is likely to find holes in any approach (at least not unless that have the product formulation for reference). More than that, the constituent surfactants will behave differently, depending on the pH so you would be adding this as another variable. It is something that one could do, but it would need a good dose of chemical experience to make the results trustworthy.
 
PiPUK said:
If you want to do the test, focus on one thing or other. The above looks like some combination of pH and hardness which you are looking at. So either keep the tests at fixed pH or at fixed hardness. IMO, the latter is of more pertinence to this forum. You could adjust some water to the necessary hardness and then use it for a bucket wash. Realistically I would imagine that you should mainly see differences down to water spotting.

Adjusting pH is a minefield. For starters, what do you adjust it with? Strong acid/strong base? Are they representative of the formulation? Weak acids/bases - which ones? There are thousands of possibilities and a good chemist is likely to find holes in any approach (at least not unless that have the product formulation for reference). More than that, the constituent surfactants will behave differently, depending on the pH so you would be adding this as another variable. It is something that one could do, but it would need a good dose of chemical experience to make the results trustworthy.
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Yes, I agree thats why I said more research would be needed as I am not really sure that I would be able to get the results that we would be looking for. Would be nice if someone with some chemistry background could do this test...
 
RubbishReview said:
Yes, I agree thats why I said more research would be needed as I am not really sure that I would be able to get the results that we would be looking for. Would be nice if someone with some chemistry background could do this test...
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I would or could but it is so subjective and would set me to being product specific (something I try to avoid).

Even two products which compete against each other, with similar characteristics could perform differently depending upon water hardness. It should be that there is relatively little difference within reasonable hardness limits but this sector tends to push the application boundary. For instance, a shampoo type liquid is not really designed to be used in a foam cannon or with pressure washing equipment but people do seem to do it. You might not think it matters, but shampoo products (hand washes, basically) are not 'built'. They are there for doing foaming and emulsifying greases and oils and similar but they just aren't designed for tackling water hardness. For that, you need a built product which actively combats the water harness and allows the other ingredients to work to their full potential.

Certainly in the UK, the professional vehicle cleaners (NOT detailers) are much better than the detailers. The detailers are just too inclined to mix and fiddle with things and, as often as not, compromise results because of it. It is quite amusing actually - all too often someone online will laugh at some other soul who they believe is an amateur. But as someone who often know more (on the chemical side), it is blatantly obvious that the guy who is having the laugh is potentially more of a mug but doesn't realise it.

I apologise as well, I have only bobbed in and out of reading the thread - I will read in full later and chime in again if I can be of more use!
 
PiPUK said:
I would or could but it is so subjective and would set me to being product specific (something I try to avoid).

Even two products which compete against each other, with similar characteristics could perform differently depending upon water hardness. It should be that there is relatively little difference within reasonable hardness limits but this sector tends to push the application boundary. For instance, a shampoo type liquid is not really designed to be used in a foam cannon or with pressure washing equipment but people do seem to do it. You might not think it matters, but shampoo products (hand washes, basically) are not 'built'. They are there for doing foaming and emulsifying greases and oils and similar but they just aren't designed for tackling water hardness. For that, you need a built product which actively combats the water harness and allows the other ingredients to work to their full potential.

Certainly in the UK, the professional vehicle cleaners (NOT detailers) are much better than the detailers. The detailers are just too inclined to mix and fiddle with things and, as often as not, compromise results because of it. It is quite amusing actually - all too often someone online will laugh at some other soul who they believe is an amateur. But as someone who often know more (on the chemical side), it is blatantly obvious that the guy who is having the laugh is potentially more of a mug but doesn't realise it.

I apologise as well, I have only bobbed in and out of reading the thread - I will read in full later and chime in again if I can be of more use!
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I must say I really enjoy reading your post. I feel your contribution to this and other forums as a chemist is invaluable. Although more often than not I'm left with more questions than answers. What would an example of one of these "built" products be in the US market?
 
I think it is quite interesting how this thread blew up like this. I have a 128 oz container full of Mr. Pink that I can't wait to try as a result of this.

Based on everyone's different water chemistries, each surfactant will behave differently. How Mr. Pink will perform for me may be completely different from someone with a different water treatment system.

My water is from a municipal, which means it is from Lake Ontario and treated in various ways prior to coming out the old tap. The water is chlorinated and fluorinated and is moderately hard, but I can't recall specifics.

My parents are on a well and have their own purification system with sodium chloride and potassium permanganate.

Using the same soap, the surfactant characteristics will essentially be quite different in the two locations. In reality, it will have way more suds at my parents house. I end up with piles of suds everywhere, even though I used the exact same dilution factor.

It's really not worth trying to tweak the chemistry of the surfactant. That is why they have surfactant chemists. You would like to think they do all that stuff prior to the product going to market. They attempt to generate the best product that will work in most common conditions.

Tweaking things like pH and attempting to compensate for water hardness may counteract the properties of the surfactant itself. Not to mention, like PiPUK said, what are you going to use to start tweaking? Bottom line, it wouldn't be worth it. When you don't like it, you know you will buy something else.

As you can see from this thread, what works for one may not work for another. Some rave the Pink, Some hate the Pink. That's why there are so many more to choose from. I will have my own opinion soon enough.
 
Got to try out a total of 3 chemical guys washes

Mr pink, citrus wash and gloss, glossworks

Mr pink was nice, suds up nice, cleans well, awesome smell

Citrus imo didn't impress me yet. I know I went heavier than directions said but the suds were larger but short lived. Will try again tomorrow on a different car at the proper ratio. Disliked the fact it wants to separate in jug but smelled nice.

Glossworks was my fave. Suds as good as Mr pink, felt slicker, cleaned better (removed some road tar with ease), and I honestly think it increased gloss. My complaint is it is more expensive but it's only money right lol?

Overall I like their washes. All have a place to me that I've used. Still going to try again with citrus. If it doesn't work it will get used in my wheel bucket. I like the idea of putting my brushes in a bucket of soap for lubrication instead of just using with a wheel cleaner by itself. Maybe this might help someone
 
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