PBL Paint Coating impressions/looking for feedback

[olenderc]

For sake of longevity I'll try to keep this rather short. I had a yearly car show to prepare for (Wicked Big Meet in Stafford Springs, CT for anyone curious) so I took this as an opportunity to try out the PBL paint coating I had purchased last year and hadn't had a chance to use. Car is a 2014 Crystal Black Silica Suburu WRX STi.

Tuesday: Did a full strength CG wash and clear wash, followed by speedy prep clay towel with Dodo Juice clay lube, followed by Iron-X, followed by another "final" wash.

Friday/Saturday: Pre-polishing wash with CG wash and clear normal wash dilution. Polished with a GG6 polisher, 5.5" LC white flat pad with WG uber compound. Paint cleansed with CarPro Eraser and then coated with PBL Paint Coating.

Everything finished basically last step ready, I didn't even really see any DA haze from compounding checking with a Brinkmann LED flashlight. In total it took me the better part of both days to finish polishing (easily 15+ hours over the course of both days). In the right light/angle with the Brinkmann you could kind of pick out the DA haze in some spots. It bothered me, but I had no time to go over the whole car again with WG TSR or finishing glaze (probably would take me another day), the car meet was the next day so I decided to go ahead and coat it as it was. Came out nice I'll post pics.

Anyway, I did my first wash yesterday since coating, about a week and a half ago. Using a two bucket method w/ gritguards, Incredimitt, and CG's Mr. Pink. Car was fully rinsed, and I did a gentle/barely any pressure wash and it seems like I can already pick out the swirling. Now the only thing I can think of is if I'm looking at the DA haze that I coated over or I'm in fact scratching during my wash process. I completely electric leaf blower dried the car, nothing touched the paint after washing. What gives? DA haze left behind or new swirls. After coating I could hardly pick out a single swirl anywhere in the paint, let alone DA haze (maybe the coating lightly filled in some DA haze?) even in full sun exposure. Now it seems like I can't even get away with an extra precautionary wash and dry without instilling new swirls, its rather frustrating and making me question why I wasted so much time for nothing it seems. Only thing I can think of is maybe repolishing with TSR or finishing glaze in a couple months (if I find the ambition to do so). I have some further feedback I'm looking for with regards to PBL paint coating durability, but I'll open a separate thread regarding that.

That's it tried to keep as short as possible, let me know your thoughts if I didn't bore you to death already.

Pre-polish wash:

Post-polishing after CarPro Eraser wipedown:

 

[EVOlved]

Here's my guess and I could be completely wrong but it's worth thinking about: maybe the coating dried on the applicator while you were using it then scratched the paint as you applied?? Just a thought.

 

[Eric@CherryOnTop]

A couple of thoughts...

The car is black and is going to show EVERYTHING!

It's a Subaru, so it's probably soft paint. How was it polishing? We're you getting little balls of polish flying all over the place? Idk what the paint looked like prior to polishing but my inkling is that uber compound was too aggressive an approach to start with on this car.

The coating does not fill, what you see is what you get. The scratching you noticed after the wash was done after the coating was applied, whether it be natural from just driving or induced by you while washing. Again, most likely soft black paint so extreme caution is needed in maintainence.

The jury is out on whether it's safe to use Eraser before PBL coatings. The manufacturer says you need to use their coating prep polish. You might very well have a bonding issue causing the coating to fail.

Lastly, and this is neither here nor there, you should iron x the car before claying. This removes he iron so you dont have to remove it with the clay. You worked backwards on this one.

Other than that, the pics you put up look real nice, keep us update.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[aim4squirrels]

I've used the PBL surface coating. After the first couple of washes on my black challenger, I noticed what I thought was paint marring with a bit of cloudiness. I too was being exceptionally careful with the uncured coating and used almost no pressure washing, and just sheeting from the garden hose. Oddly, the marring changed direction with the wash mitt's directional changes, so I thought my coveted Microfiber Madness Incredimitt was the culprit. I was bummed because of the rave reviews it got for how effortlessly it glides across the paint (which it does, BTW). After a month, I used the pressure washer on it and lo and behold, that cloudiness went away.

Come to find out, my soap dilution was too strong and there was soap residue on the paint. Perhaps that's your problem.

 

[olenderc]

Here's my guess and I could be completely wrong but it's worth thinking about: maybe the coating dried on the applicator while you were using it then scratched the paint as you applied?? Just a thought.

Certainly plausible, but how else would you apply the coatings. No one is going to use 10 fresh applicators for 1 car application. Also, the next day, the paint looked practically perfect, no marring or swirls of any sort in direct sunlight.

A couple of thoughts...

The car is black and is going to show EVERYTHING!

It's a Subaru, so it's probably soft paint. How was it polishing? We're you getting little balls of polish flying all over the place? Idk what the paint looked like prior to polishing but my inkling is that uber compound was too aggressive an approach to start with on this car.

The coating does not fill, what you see is what you get. The scratching you noticed after the wash was done after the coating was applied, whether it be natural from just driving or induced by you while washing. Again, most likely soft black paint so extreme caution is needed in maintainence.

The jury is out on whether it's safe to use Eraser before PBL coatings. The manufacturer says you need to use their coating prep polish. You might very well have a bonding issue causing the coating to fail.

Lastly, and this is neither here nor there, you should iron x the car before claying. This removes he iron so you dont have to remove it with the clay. You worked backwards on this one.

Other than that, the pics you put up look real nice, keep us update.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The UC definitely dusted a damn decent amount during polishing, but I don't think I could get away from that. Yeah, machine applying the DP prep polish seemed like it would take too much time much longer than an Eraser wipedown, so I did it from a time saving aspect since I was getting very short on time.

Also about a year ago I used the DP prep polish and had a very unsatisfactory experience with it so I didn't feel like doing that again.

I think next time around in a few months I'm gonna go over everything with WG Finishing glaze, enough to remove the PBL coating (if any is even left) and polish out any DA/compound haze I left behind. Then I'll buy some PBL prep polish and try that instead of the DP stuff, and try reapplying the coating again.

I don't think I can get any more cautious with my wash method so if my incredimitt and 2BM is still causing swirls then I give up, there's no sense in detailing something that can't be maintained at that finish, its not worth the amount of time I have to put into continuously polishing. Either that or the PBL paint coating isn't as good as it was made out to be, 3 years? please, I'll be surprised if I can get a solid 6 months out of it.

I've used the PBL surface coating. After the first couple of washes on my black challenger, I noticed what I thought was paint marring with a bit of cloudiness. I too was being exceptionally careful with the uncured coating and used almost no pressure washing, and just sheeting from the garden hose. Oddly, the marring changed direction with the wash mitt's directional changes, so I thought my coveted Microfiber Madness Incredimitt was the culprit. I was bummed because of the rave reviews it got for how effortlessly it glides across the paint (which it does, BTW). After a month, I used the pressure washer on it and lo and behold, that cloudiness went away.

Come to find out, my soap dilution was too strong and there was soap residue on the paint. Perhaps that's your problem.

I'll have to try this out, I used the recommended amount of capfuls per gallons of water of Mr. Pink, but maybe I need to cut back a little. I figure more lubricity is better so I don't spare the soap too much, rather too soapy than not enough lubricity and marr the paint, which I guess I can't get away from anyway. I'll run by the carwash and try rinsing with the power washer and see what gives.

 

[281]

You shouldn't have any dusting at all uber. How often were you cleaning your pads? Black paint shows everything, based on your wash technique, I doubt you could be adding swirls, they could be underneath the coating.

I suspect part of the issue was you used Eraser as a wipedown prior to applying PBL. In all of the PBL coating applications I've done, PBL surface cleansing polish was used prior to PBL application and I've never had any issues. Also, with PBL coating, doesn't take much soap at all to clean.

When you go to the carwash, asses the sheeting and beading, you'll know if PBL is there or not. If you can, use PBL surface cleansing polish on the paint to see what happens - it just may remove any surface hazing you're seeing. In my experience, PBL surface cleanser brought PBL coating back to life - and that was after sitting on my paint for 6 months...

 

[parttimer]

Car look terrific but man, using uber on paint that is generally regarded as being softer than warm butter may have done this to you. Most guys have used menz 4000 or 4500 and gotten darn near perfection out of black Subies before. Might wanna try finishing glaze with a white or black pad and recoat after using the PBL clensing lotion.

 

[olenderc]

You shouldn't have any dusting at all uber. How often were you cleaning your pads? Black paint shows everything, based on your wash technique, I doubt you could be adding swirls, they could be underneath the coating.

I suspect part of the issue was you used Eraser as a wipedown prior to applying PBL. In all of the PBL coating applications I've done, PBL surface cleansing polish was used prior to PBL application and I've never had any issues. Also, with PBL coating, doesn't take much soap at all to clean.

When you go to the carwash, asses the sheeting and beading, you'll know if PBL is there or not. If you can, use PBL surface cleansing polish on the paint to see what happens - it just may remove any surface hazing you're seeing. In my experience, PBL surface cleanser brought PBL coating back to life - and that was after sitting on my paint for 6 months...

Not sure how people achieve no dusting with uber. Temperature was a good 70-80 degrees. Prep'd the pad how Mike Phillips shows and only used 3 dots per pass. If anything I felt like I was underusing product which may have caused the dusting, and I was on speed 5 most of the time. Also I cleaned pad every single pass and at a maximum every 2 passes. Usually I would also give 1 spritz of Meg's ult quik detailer. If you can tell me what about my technique would cause dusting where others haven't then I'd love to get the feedback.

I know it's sacrilegious to only use Eraser prior to coating, but honestly it sheets and beads pretty well, though it seems I could have better adhesion in some areas particularly the bottom half of my doors don't seem to bead/sheet as well as the rest of the car, but maybe that's just me.

Only reason I didn't use the prep polish was because I was very short on time and I didn't have the PBL-specific prep polish and only had the DP prep polish which was a nightmare to buff off the last time I used it, and seemed to leave the surface more "smudgy" looking than before.

Car look terrific but man, using uber on paint that is generally regarded as being softer than warm butter may have done this to you. Most guys have used menz 4000 or 4500 and gotten darn near perfection out of black Subies before. Might wanna try finishing glaze with a white or black pad and recoat after using the PBL clensing lotion.

Yeah but there were a few spots that needed more aggressive attention so I figured I'd use uber with a white pad on the whole car since it finishes out so nicely. Believe it or not, 1 or 2 spots required me to make 3 passes over the same area just to polish out the swirls/RIDS. Gonna have to go back over it all with finishing glaze or maybe try out a menzerna product like 4000 or 4500 in a few months.

 

[281]

Not sure how people achieve no dusting with uber. Temperature was a good 70-80 degrees. Prep'd the pad how Mike Phillips shows and only used 3 dots per pass. If anything I felt like I was underusing product which may have caused the dusting, and I was on speed 5 most of the time. Also I cleaned pad every single pass and at a maximum every 2 passes. Usually I would also give 1 spritz of Meg's ult quik detailer. If you can tell me what about my technique would cause dusting where others haven't then I'd love to get the feedback.

I know it's sacrilegious to only use Eraser prior to coating, but honestly it sheets and beads pretty well, though it seems I could have better adhesion in some areas particularly the bottom half of my doors don't seem to bead/sheet as well as the rest of the car, but maybe that's just me.

Only reason I didn't use the prep polish was because I was very short on time and I didn't have the PBL-specific prep polish and only had the DP prep polish which was a nightmare to buff off the last time I used it, and seemed to leave the surface more "smudgy" looking than before.

That is odd. Just to be clear, you primed the pad then added three dime sized dots? You're doing what I'd do minus the QD and I'd hit the pad with the brush to remove old product. It could just very well be the crap on your paint too.

PBL surface polish is very easy to remove compared to DP...

Eraser is fine if you're applying CQ UK...

I know how you're feeling, all that time spent working and you may have to start over sucks dude - I feel your pain broth

 

[olenderc]

That is odd. Just to be clear, you primed the pad then added three dime sized dots? You're doing what I'd do minus the QD and I'd hit the pad with the brush to remove old product. It could just very well be the crap on your paint too.

PBL surface polish is very easy to remove compared to DP...

Eraser is fine if you're applying CQ UK...

I know how you're feeling, all that time spent working and you may have to start over sucks dude - I feel your pain broth

Yeah I mean the car is coated right now, so at least I'm protected for the most part. If anything I'll pick up some PBL prep cleanser (kind of overpriced at $30 for 8 oz but what am I going to do, can't use the coating without that prep polish right?!), and go at it again maybe repolish a few panels at a time over the course of a couple weekends rather than all in one shot.

 

[281]

Yeah I mean the car is coated right now, so at least I'm protected for the most part. If anything I'll pick up some PBL prep cleanser (kind of overpriced at $30 for 8 oz but what am I going to do, can't use the coating without that prep polish right?!), and go at it again maybe repolish a few panels at a time over the course of a couple weekends rather than all in one shot.

Good game plan, working on my GT always ends up being a 3 day project. Your STI is stunning!

One thing to keep in mind about PBL cleanser, I'd apply by machine and a little goes a long way. In addition, I applied with a polishing pad...

 

[olenderc]

Good game plan, working on my GT always ends up being a 3 day project. Your STI is stunning!

One thing to keep in mind about PBL cleanser, I'd apply by machine and a little goes a long way. In addition, I applied with a polishing pad...

Thank you for the kind words, I wish I was faster and could get projects done in some of the time frames I hear people talking about on here but I can't imagine how that's possible when I'm not working with a $350 polisher. Anyway, I'll have to make do with my Griot's. I'll have to try machine applying the PBL cleanser after I cough of the money for the little 8 Oz sucker, I just hope it lasts more than a few uses. I tried applying the DP cleanser by machine once on my other car on a black finishing pad and I don't know how but it was hazing a little (maybe I didn't saturate the pad enough with product), so I resorted to hand applying it. This time I'll likely use a blue finishing pad and try applying it by machine again.

 

[aim4squirrels]

Another tip, don't let the surface cleaning polish linger too long on the paint after applying it, or you'll get the arm workout of a lifetime. I suggest you work a section, then wipe that section before moving on.

 

[swanicyouth]

I'm a bit confused... You compounded the car - and didn't use a finishing polish..But, then you noticed DA haze. So, instead of using a finishing polish you just coated the car. Now you see "swirls".

You never perfected the finish to begin with. Is this correct?

 

[olenderc]

I'm a bit confused... You compounded the car - and didn't use a finishing polish..But, then you noticed DA haze. So, instead of using a finishing polish you just coated the car. Now you see "swirls".

You never perfected the finish to begin with. Is this correct?

I knew there was DA haze left over from compounding, I would have went over everything with a fine polish but I didn't have another full day or more of time to complete such task. So I figured it was better to protect what I had done so far and revisit the project at a later date and re-polish and re-coat making sure to use the pbl-specific cleanser.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't naive enough that I expected a perfect finish especially on black car only after compounding. But UC has been know to finish practically last step ready, I figured it would have to do until I could finish the job at a later date.

What I was trying to get at, is that the swirls I saw seemed to look more like new swirls rather than DA haze, so I was curious/nervous that somehow they were being instilled during my careful wash. So yes, you are correct, the finish was never perfect, I was merely trying to figure out what was happening since I was seeing "newer/different" swirling, possibly from washing.

 

[parttimer]

I guess PBL is easy enough to apply, might as well run over it with a fine polish which would probably remove the PBL and see where you stand? Then use the surface cleansing polish and finish it with another coat of PBL. We aren't talking Opti coat or Cquartz here.

 

[swanicyouth]

I knew there was DA haze left over from compounding, I would have went over everything with a fine polish but I didn't have another full day or more of time to complete such task. So I figured it was better to protect what I had done so far and revisit the project at a later date and re-polish and re-coat making sure to use the pbl-specific cleanser.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't naive enough that I expected a perfect finish especially on black car only after compounding. But UC has been know to finish practically last step ready, I figured it would have to do until I could finish the job at a later date.

What I was trying to get at, is that the swirls I saw seemed to look more like new swirls rather than DA haze, so I was curious/nervous that somehow they were being instilled during my careful wash. So yes, you are correct, the finish was never perfect, I was merely trying to figure out what was happening since I was seeing "newer/different" swirling, possibly from washing.

I think it's too hard to try to distinguish between what is DA haze, what is left over swirls, and what is new swirls. If the paint was polished to perfection - I would think differently. DA haze does look different than "swirls" - but you were planning in re-polishing it anyway - so, it doesn't matter much what it is.

It seems to me you are washing the car correctly with the right stuff. One thing I would recommend is foaming the car dry - then pressure washing it prior to touching it. I never touch my black car before doing this.

Black is black. Doesn't matter if it's soft or hard - it shows everything. I've got a pretty good set of rules that works for me on my black car. I haven't had to do any correction in a while (just "paint cleaners" to change LSP) - and the paint is still relatively defect free:

1. No rinseless or waterless washes.

2. No QD car unless immediately after it was washed

3. Dry with air after rinsing with DI water

4. Foam and pressure wash (using a pressure washer - not a hose) prior to 2BM wash.

These 4 things really work well for me and have made a huge difference. Wash induced marring or swirls have become a non-issue. Once you re-polish, I think if you follow these rules you will be good.

 

[Scott@IncrediblyDetailed]

First, UC finishes LSP ready on some paint systems, not all.

Second, I don't know how well you inspected the results after compounding but those swirls you see could be RIDS and once you remove all the light swirls, the RIDS pop more. If possible check your results by pulling the car into the sun, sometimes the brinkman doesn't give you an accurate view of the condition.

Third, I don't think eraser is the issue, it doesn't matter so much how the paint surface is cleaned as long as it's done in a safe manner and all the polishing oils are removed. Yes, people suggest using the prep polish but I can tell you there is always more ways than one to do anything. I have used IPA for PBL coating on several vehicles with zero issues.

I would do a test spot before you start polishing again to figure out what process is going to get you the results you want and finish without DA haze.

 

[olenderc]

I think it's too hard to try to distinguish between what is DA haze, what is left over swirls, and what is new swirls. If the paint was polished to perfection - I would think differently. DA haze does look different than "swirls" - but you were planning in re-polishing it anyway - so, it doesn't matter much what it is.

It seems to me you are washing the car correctly with the right stuff. One thing I would recommend is foaming the car dry - then pressure washing it prior to touching it. I never touch my black car before doing this.

Black is black. Doesn't matter if it's soft or hard - it shows everything. I've got a pretty good set of rules that works for me on my black car. I haven't had to do any correction in a while (just "paint cleaners" to change LSP) - and the paint is still relatively defect free:

1. No rinseless or waterless washes.

2. No QD car unless immediately after it was washed

3. Dry with air after rinsing with DI water

4. Foam and pressure wash (using a pressure washer - not a hose) prior to 2BM wash.

These 4 things really work well for me and have made a huge difference. Wash induced marring or swirls have become a non-issue. Once you re-polish, I think if you follow these rules you will be good.

Thanks for the guidelines, I think I can adhere to most of those if not all. Though, I do not own a pressure washer. I've thought about buying a cheapo electric one from harbor freight for about $60-70 which I think would be enough to do the job. Though any of the foam gun attachments on autogeek I've seen are a little pricey over $100, which is hard to justify spending just for a foam lance if you ask me. I'll have to see what to do about that, I was considering a regular hose foam lance which is cheaper (around the $60 range), but you specifically mention pressure hose/foam gun so the latter combination runs a much higher price tag.

First, UC finishes LSP ready on some paint systems, not all.

Second, I don't know how well you inspected the results after compounding but those swirls you see could be RIDS and once you remove all the light swirls, the RIDS pop more. If possible check your results by pulling the car into the sun, sometimes the brinkman doesn't give you an accurate view of the condition.

Third, I don't think eraser is the issue, it doesn't matter so much how the paint surface is cleaned as long as it's done in a safe manner and all the polishing oils are removed. Yes, people suggest using the prep polish but I can tell you there is always more ways than one to do anything. I have used IPA for PBL coating on several vehicles with zero issues.

I would do a test spot before you start polishing again to figure out what process is going to get you the results you want and finish without DA haze.

Yeah, I'm not sure on the long term effects of only using eraser rather than a paint coating cleanser, but here are some beading pics I took yesterday which look alright to me. In either case, I'll likely be repolishing with a finer polish eventually and recoating after using the pbl specific cleanser for peace of mind.

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

I think it's too hard to try to distinguish between what is DA haze, what is left over swirls, and what is new swirls. If the paint was polished to perfection - I would think differently. DA haze does look different than "swirls" - but you were planning in re-polishing it anyway - so, it doesn't matter much what it is.

It seems to me you are washing the car correctly with the right stuff. One thing I would recommend is foaming the car dry - then pressure washing it prior to touching it. I never touch my black car before doing this.

Black is black. Doesn't matter if it's soft or hard - it shows everything. I've got a pretty good set of rules that works for me on my black car. I haven't had to do any correction in a while (just "paint cleaners" to change LSP) - and the paint is still relatively defect free:

1. No rinseless or waterless washes.

2. No QD car unless immediately after it was washed

3. Dry with air after rinsing with DI water

4. Foam and pressure wash (using a pressure washer - not a hose) prior to 2BM wash.

These 4 things really work well for me and have made a huge difference. Wash induced marring or swirls have become a non-issue. Once you re-polish, I think if you follow these rules you will be good.

To the OP, you have black paint. If you are looking to reduce/eliminate wash induced marring, the tips above are a must! Every one of them. Foaming the car dry and pressure rinsing before the 2BM is critical, especially on black paint. This will eliminate most of the grit prior to rubbing your wash mitt across on the paint. Black is a royal PITA and takes extra pre-cautions to keep defect free as possible. If you think a pressure washer and foam lance are too expensive, then your results will not be optimal.