PH Balanced Shampoo ??

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addysdaddy

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Is there a significant advantage to using a PH balanced shampoo? I've been moving away shampoo products that add gloss or whatever since I add my own gloss with waxes or sealants whenever necessary. I know I want my car shampoo to clean and have lubricity to help prevent scratching but I would prefer to leave the "other" ingredients out. Just clean the paint and I'll do the rest. Can anyone clarify?
 
Use chemical guys matte shampoo. pH balanced, zero gloss enhancers or wax, excellent lubricity and cleans well.


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I could be wrong...But I think that the Wax/Gloss-components of car/wash shampoos have very little, if any, bearing on their pH values.

As an aside:
I have always preferred car-wash shampoos that do not contain any "gloss factors".

Bob
 
CarPro Reset has been working well for me lately. Bought it to use on a couple of customers coated cars, then tried it on my Tundra which has Colli 915 as LSP and it performed great.
 
Ph balanced is another term for mild soap. Anything harsher will really upset the waxaholics.
 
My guess is "pH balanced" is mostly marketing hoopla like it is for OTC pharmaceuticals. Basically, your diluting a few ounces of shampoo in like a gazillion ounces of water. So, unless your dumping like some type of strong acid in the bucket - my guess the pH is not affected much by what soap you use.
 
What do you guys think that pH balanced means?! I am pretty sure you don't mean 'balanced' - I have products where I specifically adjust (balance) the pH to around pH 12. I have products which are buffered to specific pH levels... but this is not what you guys are talking about. So why on earth don't detailers say what they mean - pH neutral?!

Swanicyouth is bang on though. Unless a product is specifically buffered (which is rare - Ive never seen a detailing brand make this claim), the pH will drop approximately 1 point for every 10 times dilution. So if you dilute 100:1, it will drop by 2 pH points. So pH 9 would theoretically be almost 7 (assuming your water is pH 7). pH 10 would go to about pH 8 and so on. A car wash shampoo (hand wash product) should really not be higher than this because it would be too aggressive for skin contact. So, for a high dilution shampoo, anything from about pH 4 to 10 is going to be neutral by the time you dilute it.

Another note for you is that a genuinely pH neutral product is likely more neutral than your water supply. I cannot be sure about the US, but in the UK, our water is predominantly closer to 8 than it is to 7. So your wash solution is going to tend towards the pH of your water supply, i.e. closer to 8 than 7 much of the time.

Basically, pH fear is ridiculous most of the time. If you are using a product neat, it matters more but the difference between pH 6 and 8 is pretty much zero in performance terms to you. Even going from 5 to 9 is making so little difference as to be indistinguishable to you. I would be inclined to redefine pH for detailers - less than 1 is strongly acid, 1-4 mildly acidic, 4-9 mostly neutral, 9-12 mildly alkaline and greater than 12 strongly alkaline.
 
PiPUK said:
Basically, pH fear is ridiculous most of the time. If you are using a product neat, it matters more but the difference between pH 6 and 8 is pretty much zero in performance terms to you. Even going from 5 to 9 is making so little difference as to be indistinguishable to you.
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This is what I have seen debated. Some will says most car soaps even used concentrated on paint will not significantly affect the LSP yet others (one company in particularly) will say if you use their soaps concentrated (1 oz per gallon rather than 1 oz per 4 gallons) will strip (that word again) the LSP.

When I use a dish detergent like Dawn with undiluted I get more cleaning (dissolving power) but never feel like my hands were stripped drip caused by very strong and yet I see reports how powerful Dawn is. I just need to find some experiment to make my own conclusion.
 
PiPUK said:
What do you guys think that pH balanced means?! I am pretty sure you don't mean 'balanced' - I have products where I specifically adjust (balance) the pH to around pH 12. I have products which are buffered to specific pH levels... but this is not what you guys are talking about. So why on earth don't detailers say what they mean - pH neutral?!

Swanicyouth is bang on though. Unless a product is specifically buffered (which is rare - Ive never seen a detailing brand make this claim), the pH will drop approximately 1 point for every 10 times dilution. So if you dilute 100:1, it will drop by 2 pH points. So pH 9 would theoretically be almost 7 (assuming your water is pH 7). pH 10 would go to about pH 8 and so on. A car wash shampoo (hand wash product) should really not be higher than this because it would be too aggressive for skin contact. So, for a high dilution shampoo, anything from about pH 4 to 10 is going to be neutral by the time you dilute it.

Another note for you is that a genuinely pH neutral product is likely more neutral than your water supply. I cannot be sure about the US, but in the UK, our water is predominantly closer to 8 than it is to 7. So your wash solution is going to tend towards the pH of your water supply, i.e. closer to 8 than 7 much of the time.

Basically, pH fear is ridiculous most of the time. If you are using a product neat, it matters more but the difference between pH 6 and 8 is pretty much zero in performance terms to you. Even going from 5 to 9 is making so little difference as to be indistinguishable to you. I would be inclined to redefine pH for detailers - less than 1 is strongly acid, 1-4 mildly acidic, 4-9 mostly neutral, 9-12 mildly alkaline and greater than 12 strongly alkaline.
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Thanks PiPUK & everyone else for the explanation. It didn't know if this was something I should be concerned about or as Swani said just marketing hype. Good to know as I really like the Ultima Paint Guard Wash Shampoo but it doesn't make any sort of ph balanced claim. And like Bob said, I'm more inclined to those wash products that don't have gloss enhancers.
 
addysdaddy said:
Thanks PiPUK & everyone else for the explanation. It didn't know if this was something I should be concerned about or as Swani said just marketing hype. Good to know as I really like the Ultima Paint Guard Wash Shampoo but it doesn't make any sort of ph balanced claim. And like Bob said, I'm more inclined to those wash products that don't have gloss enhancers.
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Ultima Paint Gaurd Wash claims to make a PH-7 solution when mixed per the instructions.

3 gallons of water and 1 oz of product.

That means filling your bucket with 3 gallons of water FIRST.... not putting an ounce in the bucket then blasting it with the hose and filling a bucket with suds and about a half gallon of sitting water (like I see most novices do). Ultima soap is a potent car wash so its best to follow the instructions.

Ultima's makes a strong stance on ALL of their water based products being PH7. From the clay lubricant, interior shampoo, WW+ and Detail Spray.
 
As mentioned, pH balanced won't strip LSP. My favorite is Adam's Car Wash Shampoo.
 
Anyone interested in the topic, you can buy a pH meter for like 10 bucks on Ebay. Dunno how good it is - but it seems like it works OK. Of course, measuring the pH of the mixed solution is the way to go. Dunno if it would work with thick soaps.
 
Don't bother with ph meters... It is pointless unless you know what you are at (and they can read numbers which are sometime meaningless).

And again, it is pH NEUTRAL, 'balanced' is NOT neutral so the use of that term is wrong.
 
mg6045 said:
Ultima Paint Gaurd Wash claims to make a PH-7 solution when mixed per the instructions.

3 gallons of water and 1 oz of product.

That means filling your bucket with 3 gallons of water FIRST.... not putting an ounce in the bucket then blasting it with the hose and filling a bucket with suds and about a half gallon of sitting water (like I see most novices do). Ultima soap is a potent car wash so its best to follow the instructions.

Ultima's makes a strong stance on ALL of their water based products being PH7. From the clay lubricant, interior shampoo, WW+ and Detail Spray.
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That's interesting since I read the product description both here on the AG site and went to Ultima directly and didn't see any mention of ph ratings. Anyway it would appear the facts say it doesn't matter and yes, fill the bucket with 3 gal of water & follow the dilution ratio per the instructions. IMHO it's a great shampoo/my favorite and I've tried to many to count.
 
addysdaddy said:
Thanks PiPUK & everyone else for the explanation. It didn't know if this was something I should be concerned about or as Swani said just marketing hype. Good to know as I really like the Ultima Paint Guard Wash Shampoo but it doesn't make any sort of ph balanced claim. And like Bob said, I'm more inclined to those wash products that don't have gloss enhancers.
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UPGW is good, but not my favorite. The reason is it's a bit "harsh" on waxes. It has likely nothing to do with pH - but the detergents or surfactants in the product. Keep in mind - Ultima makes no waxes, just sealants - so it's designed to work with their products. So, if you use a sealant this may be a good soap for you.

For regular maintenance cleaning of waxed cars, I try to stick with shampoos designed for "wax". I don't worry about pH and such - because the manufacturer of the soap designed it to be compatible with their wax if it's a reputable company.

No wax manufacturer is designing a maintenance soap to remove their wax - that would be dumb. So, for a gentle wash I'll use something like P21S soap, Victoria Wax soap, or Dodo's Born To Be Mild. All these companies are primarily "waxed focused" and reputable companies - so I just let the chemist do the thinkin' for dumb *sses like me..
 
swanicyouth said:
because the manufacturer of the soap designed it to be compatible with their wax if it's a reputable company.

No wax manufacturer is designing a maintenance soap to remove their wax - that would be dumb.
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Unfortunately I think you are being misled with regards to the way many detailing brands work. If you are talking about Megiuars, then yes, you are probably right (although I would hasten to point out that this specific design is difficult to chase because it is very hard to actually be 'incompatible). However, most detailing brands are nowhere near the size of megiuars. Many brands do not manufacture their own goods. They do not design their own products. The height of R&D is getting a bunch of products from a bunch of manufacturers and choosing the one which is preferred or performs the best (which typically has a large dose of 'cost' in the equation). It is not unknown for a brand to base the decision almost solely upon the cost with the presumption that the marketing guys (who are a lot cheaper than scientists) will make it work. I know that many companies will bluster about their capabilities but there is a history of deception in this regard, including companies which are on both sides of the pond and with good reputations.

From my perspective, the main reason that you can assume a shampoo will be OK is because it is actually pretty tough to make one which is so bad as to be a problem!
 
3D Pink Soap. "Rinses effortlessly from the surface and will not leave any residue or additional protective or enhancing elements behind."

since discovering it (on my 3rd gallon), i no longer buy the chemical guys maxi suds II. this does everything that soap does if not better (cheaper too). it also works great in the foam gun/cannon...
 
PiPUK said:
Unfortunately I think you are being misled with regards to the way many detailing brands work. If you are talking about Megiuars, then yes, you are probably right (although I would hasten to point out that this specific design is difficult to chase because it is very hard to actually be 'incompatible). However, most detailing brands are nowhere near the size of megiuars. Many brands do not manufacture their own goods. They do not design their own products. The height of R&D is getting a bunch of products from a bunch of manufacturers and choosing the one which is preferred or performs the best (which typically has a large dose of 'cost' in the equation). It is not unknown for a brand to base the decision almost solely upon the cost with the presumption that the marketing guys (who are a lot cheaper than scientists) will make it work. I know that many companies will bluster about their capabilities but there is a history of deception in this regard, including companies which are on both sides of the pond and with good reputations.

From my perspective, the main reason that you can assume a shampoo will be OK is because it is actually pretty tough to make one which is so bad as to be a problem!
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I'm interpreting this to say as consumers we should select a soap based on price point and ignore all the hype and marketing - apparently in spite of their efforts it's all good.
 
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