Pinnacle surface coating
- Thread starter Mikas46
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Radarryan
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- Nov 9, 2012
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I don't think so. I believe that the Wolfgang Paintwork Polish is is prewax polish, which is full of oils and glazes. These things would interfere with the bonding of the coating. The idea is to get the surface clear of any polishing oils, debris, etc., and I don't think that the Wolfgang Paintwork Polish Enhancer would accomplish this task.
I think that a wash followed by a few IPA wipedowns would clean and surface sufficiently to allow the coating to bond, however with a free shipping, no minnium, it may be right time to go ahead and purchase the coating prep polish (or spray (Eraser, Panel Wipe, etc.)) of your choice.
Happy detailing!
HateSwirls
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- Jun 24, 2013
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No, it's highly recommend you use the prep polish to ensure you remove any oils that may be present.
If not the coating will not bond.
It would be to your benefit to prep it correctly, you'd hate yourself if it didn't last as it should and from what I was told it wouldn't bond, money down the drain dude
If not the coating will not bond.
It would be to your benefit to prep it correctly, you'd hate yourself if it didn't last as it should and from what I was told it wouldn't bond, money down the drain dude
Tato
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- Nov 27, 2013
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I've ordered BL Surface Cleansing polish because I'm not a huge fan of IPA (nothing against who does ok!?, that's just me).
What I've noted is that DP Coating Prep Polish is much cheaper, and is supposed to do the same. However my OCD won't let me use DP (initially), I need to go synergetic for my first coat application, at least!
For the high cost of a coating prep / app job, I believe that going with a prep/cleansing polish is the right thing to do. There are also others benefits from this practice, as follows:
"... Surface Cleansing Polish is capable of removing heavy road film, light water spots, embedded dirt, oxidation and light swirl marks."
You won't get this with an IPA, sorry.
As follows:
"... polished surfaces can be coated immediately after application."
Very professional and clean follow up.
What makes me wonder is:
"... Black Label Surface Cleansing Polish can be applied by hand or machine. Its thick, creamy formula spreads thin and wipes off without any effort."
And it has only one review at store, to date:
"...3 stars: The product was very difficult to remove after application. Needed to use multiple microfiber towels to remove reside."
Link: Pinnacle Black Label Surface Cleansing Polish
Ok, it's not the first time I read someone says a product is very difficult to remove, and in majority of cases, it was USER'S fault... I prefer to believe it'll wipe off easy (Mike Phillips made a Video Review applying BL coating with a group of detailers, they would state this difficult to remove if it really existed).
Black label polish and surface coating are almost arriving at my home, so I'll try my best to make a review of this DUO.
To resume, consider at least DP Coating Prep (make a little research first) and I'm sure it'll enrich your coating experience.
Kind Regards,
What I've noted is that DP Coating Prep Polish is much cheaper, and is supposed to do the same. However my OCD won't let me use DP (initially), I need to go synergetic for my first coat application, at least!
For the high cost of a coating prep / app job, I believe that going with a prep/cleansing polish is the right thing to do. There are also others benefits from this practice, as follows:
"... Surface Cleansing Polish is capable of removing heavy road film, light water spots, embedded dirt, oxidation and light swirl marks."
You won't get this with an IPA, sorry.
As follows:
"... polished surfaces can be coated immediately after application."
Very professional and clean follow up.
What makes me wonder is:
"... Black Label Surface Cleansing Polish can be applied by hand or machine. Its thick, creamy formula spreads thin and wipes off without any effort."
And it has only one review at store, to date:
"...3 stars: The product was very difficult to remove after application. Needed to use multiple microfiber towels to remove reside."
Link: Pinnacle Black Label Surface Cleansing Polish
Ok, it's not the first time I read someone says a product is very difficult to remove, and in majority of cases, it was USER'S fault... I prefer to believe it'll wipe off easy (Mike Phillips made a Video Review applying BL coating with a group of detailers, they would state this difficult to remove if it really existed).
Black label polish and surface coating are almost arriving at my home, so I'll try my best to make a review of this DUO.
To resume, consider at least DP Coating Prep (make a little research first) and I'm sure it'll enrich your coating experience.
Kind Regards,
kevincwelch
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- May 12, 2013
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Use an appropriate solvent that dissolves any oils and polishing by products that may separate the coating from the paint.
There should be nothing between your clear coat/paint and the nan coating.
What you use to prep your paint probably doesn't matter.
See my thread on this.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...-preps-black-label-diamond-paint-coating.html
There should be nothing between your clear coat/paint and the nan coating.
What you use to prep your paint probably doesn't matter.
See my thread on this.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...-preps-black-label-diamond-paint-coating.html
cleanmycorolla
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- Apr 27, 2012
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One leaves oils and fillers one doesn't.
WRAPT C5Z06
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- Nov 12, 2009
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cardaddy
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- Nov 20, 2012
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You know, it'd be GREAT if we actually could get an answer to the 'science' of/behind the BL prep cream versus DP, Eraser, IPA, or whatever else one may use, but to date the best (answer) we've been able to get is "synergy" or "synergistic" or something along those lines. :dunno:
One would think if Eraser (or a mix of Eraser and IPA) would work before cQuartz that it'd work just fine for BL coating as well. Alas.... nobody knows.
But you can bet AG has made a few extra bucks selling yet ANOTHER paint cleanser about now. 
One would think if Eraser (or a mix of Eraser and IPA) would work before cQuartz that it'd work just fine for BL coating as well. Alas.... nobody knows.
But you can bet AG has made a few extra bucks selling yet ANOTHER paint cleanser about now. WRAPT C5Z06
New member
- Nov 12, 2009
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No doubt in my mind it would work just fine. I think with Pinnacle and DP paint cleansers, there would be less chance of marring the paint compared to IPA, Eraser, etc...One would think if Eraser (or a mix of Eraser and IPA) would work before cQuartz that it'd work just fine for BL coating as well.
cleanmycorolla
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- Apr 27, 2012
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Hey Mark!
In my mind I look at it like waxes and sealants have oils/fillers in them most of the time just like those style paint cleaners, so I think the oils mesh for lack of a better term. Where as coatings, I. Am unaware if there's oils and fillers so perhaps that's why it wouldn't be compatible. All I know DP prep polish is awesome. And so is Pinnacle Cleansing Lotion and Lusso Creme. I'm a few beers in for today, I hope this made sense. :dblthumb2:
cleanmycorolla
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- Apr 27, 2012
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Closed, somewhere outside of extreme temp swings.
kevincwelch
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- May 12, 2013
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One would think if Eraser (or a mix of Eraser and IPA) would work before cQuartz that it'd work just fine for BL coating as well. Alas.... nobody knows.
I disagree. Check out my thread. At least it's some preliminary evidence that any prep that actually cleanses the surface will work.
Next test for me: spring.
Tato
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- Nov 27, 2013
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Dear,
If you're gonna be coating, that's the best practice in my opinion.
For you become happier with your purchase, take a look at Mike Phillips's topic "Cleaned & Coated ..." http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...-coated-3-hours-2014-jeep-grand-cherokee.html
Observe how 'He' describes the finish look and feel after prep. polishing, just before coating. That's the feel I look for before applying a LSP.
Yes, we have a topic regarding Pre-coating Preps comparison, but after looking at the topic I've suggested above, I can't (or maybe just don't want to) believe anything is better than a proper coating prep polish before coating.
In any manner I want to take out credits of the prep. comparison topic, it's undoubtedly a great addition to this whole coating discussion, but we must admit it's a 'One Guy' qualitative observation based on subjective parameters, like water beading...
With that so 'fragile proof', I'll always go with prep. polish.
IPA = Prep. Polish -> I go with Prep. Polish.
IPA 'for Free' vs Prep. Polish for $29.99 -> I'd go with Prep. Polish...
What I do mean is, you're preparing a 3 years durable protection, trying to shortcut or minimize the costs on prep. (assumedly and truly the most important step) here would not be right pathway.
But that's just me, a beginner in detailing, but veteran in OCD!
Good luck with your prep/coating. Hope to soon be discussing the application with you (mine already arrived in Brazil).
Kind Regards.
kevincwelch
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- May 12, 2013
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Then perhaps you simply don't want to believe.
I don't think that I or anyone else has said this single test is incontrovertible evidence to the fact that coating success is independent of a specific coating prep.
Furthermore, I have only a couple weeks of opinions (plural: people voted), so I can hardly say that one is more durable than the other.
As for the claim that not using the PBL SCP will result in "complete failure" of the coating- that is simply false.
To understand how coatings work is to understand that the coating bonds to the surface and that maximal efficacy occurs when the coating bonds to the cleanest and most contaminant free surface. As to the claim that PBL SCP does it better than anything else - I doubt it. We already have confirmation that DP Cleansing Polish (which is different from PBL SCP) works just as well as PBL SCP). Now, PBL SCP may work faster and result in less marring (than IPA) - - that could be a definition of 'better'. But whether it is more effective and promotes longevity of PBL coatings is highly doubtful.
But, yes, time will tell.
Now, I offer a challenge. Show me the evidence that PBL SCP is more effective. I bought it along with the three coatings, so not picking it up certainly isn't a financial limitation or an unwillingness to use it.
"Show me the data," as I say to my colleagues. If it's there, I'll believe it. Until then, I'll use it because I'm a "follows the instructions " kind of guy.
Until then, there's no good reason to use it over another surface prep like gtechniq panel wipe or IPA.
Tato
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- Nov 27, 2013
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That's a high level answer, thank you.
You got it right, that's why I've said it!
Your topic is gorgeous. I'm sure you went the further one can get into this testing without using modern equipment and analysis. I don't think it's the purpose here!
Most of information we have to date about this subject came from your initiative.
As a bonus, your videos of sheeting on vertical panels are beautiful shots.
Sorry to ask: Can you actually coat (not top) a coat? This something I want to know, but I'm very ashamed (don't know if this is the word) to ask… Can I go over and reapply coating after 12 or 24 hours? To guarantee uniform coverage?
Do you think there will be any benefits/damage from this practice?
We can polish the coat with BL polish without removing the coat, is this right? Doesn't this means synergy?
I'm 'kinda 'of believing in those chemical engineers…
Thank you for all,
Kind Regards.
Then perhaps you simply don't want to believe.
I don't think that I or anyone else has said this single test is incontrovertible evidence to the fact that coating success is independent of a specific coating prep.
Furthermore, I have only a couple weeks of opinions (plural: people voted), so I can hardly say that one is more durable than the other.
As for the claim that not using the PBL SCP will result in "complete failure" of the coating- that is simply false.
To understand how coatings work is to understand that the coating bonds to the surface and that maximal efficacy occurs when the coating bonds to the cleanest and most contaminant free surface.
As to the claim that PBL SCP does it better than anything else - I doubt it.
We already have confirmation that DP Cleansing Polish (which is different from PBL SCP) works just as well as PBL SCP). Now, PBL SCP may work faster and result in less marring (than IPA) - - that could be a definition of 'better'. But whether it is more effective and promotes longevity of PBL coatings is highly doubtful.
But, yes, time will tell.
Now, I offer a challenge. Show me the evidence that PBL SCP is more effective. I bought it along with the three coatings, so not picking it up certainly isn't a financial limitation or an unwillingness to use it.
"Show me the data," as I say to my colleagues. If it's there, I'll believe it. Until then, I'll use it because I'm a "follows the instructions " kind of guy.
Until then, there's no good reason to use it over another surface prep like gtechniq panel wipe or IPA.
You got it right, that's why I've said it! Your topic is gorgeous. I'm sure you went the further one can get into this testing without using modern equipment and analysis. I don't think it's the purpose here!
Most of information we have to date about this subject came from your initiative.
As a bonus, your videos of sheeting on vertical panels are beautiful shots.
Sorry to ask: Can you actually coat (not top) a coat? This something I want to know, but I'm very ashamed (don't know if this is the word) to ask… Can I go over and reapply coating after 12 or 24 hours? To guarantee uniform coverage?
Do you think there will be any benefits/damage from this practice?
We can polish the coat with BL polish without removing the coat, is this right? Doesn't this means synergy?
I'm 'kinda 'of believing in those chemical engineers…
Thank you for all,
Kind Regards.
cardaddy
New member
- Nov 20, 2012
- 3,937
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Think you misunderstood my intent Kevin.
I wasn't saying NOT to use ANY standard accepted prep method. Moreover that "the powers that be" here at AG have yet to provide any real science behind why *their* new product/prep solution is needed/better/superior to/better/instead of one that I'd use say for cQuartz. IE: Eraser. (Or IPA, or IPA/Eraser mix.)
FWIW I did see your thread/test as well, just didn't vote prior to you posting the results. From those shots I didn't see anything that said anything one way or another. Although from one angle on one shot (thinking it may have been one of the videos) looking up from the LF headlight area towards the windshield (over the PBL prepped quadrant) it seemed a bit more 'foggy' or 'hazy' or 'streaked' somewhat. Perhaps it was micro-particles / humidity on the surface there but it IS noticeable. (At least in that one split second shot.)
As far as beading and sheeting. Who knows, couldn't really tell under the circumstances that you had to shoot with. :dunno:
At the end of the day all I was saying is if it's prepped good enough for your 'other' coatings, then it should be prepped good enough for PBL. Albeit that in and of itself still had me, last night at 11:45, ordering ANOTHER bottle of PBL 'prep' just so I don't use all of what I have before the 3 bottles of coatings run empty! :laughing: