I never bothered with an ipa wipedown in the past, always just used Klasse AIO since it was a good chemical cleaner and left a nice prepped surface behind with an acrylic layer. Though I now just ordered some Optimum Poli Seal since it seems like Klasse on roids and can be used as a finishing polish as well.
Possible alternative to an IPA wipedown?
- Thread starter ComradeGrumbles
- Start date
Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
- 51,004
- 7
No doubt... I'm the forever student... always learning...
Calling on body shops, dealerships and detail shops for one segment of my life taught me an important lesson... always be open to new ideas, products, pads, tools and techniques.
If a person walls themselves off because they think they know all there is to know they're going to miss out...
FUNX650
New member
- Dec 1, 2010
- 21,057
- 1
Even at my age (old-timer)...I, too, take every opportunity to learn/expand my horizons.
Sorry...But...No, Mr. Megane, I do not have any examples of the surfactant components in
dishingwash liquids which result in their claimed effectiveness at stripping LSPs.
In fact...Until a couple of years ago, I had never heard of the terminology of "stripping"
being used for anything applicable to Detailing. This includes items such as:
"stripping off old wax"; and "stripping off polishing oils" <<<(wipe-downs?)...
In order, it has been said, for LSP's/'Dressings' to 'bond' to various surfaces
(paint, trim--rubber/plastic/vinyl/EPDM/etc., and...even unto themselves!
Back to dishwashing liquids (WUL's)
-I have used a Proctor&Gamble product called Ivory to wash vehicles for untold years now.
I always made sure that the vehicles were out of the Sun and then performed the only processes
that I knew to be known as/called: "The Wipe-downs"...Washing/Drying the vehicle.
Never, ever experienced anything negative to occur to any vehicle surfaces.
But this was when most vehicles did not have as much, let me call it: 'Plastic trim'.
Nowadays, for maintenance car washing sessions, I'll use a more 'dedicated' car wash shampoo...
sometimes, even, with a drop or two of Ivory).
So far: Again, no negative experiences to report regarding any vehicle surface.
BTW:Still following the advisable washing/drying a vehicle directions.
Now, If I may...I'd like to bring up "plastic-trim" again...
Trying to address certain rumors/myths/propaganda:
Accordingly...I do have a specific question that I hope you'll find the time to answer:
By following the standards for a vehicle washing-session:
Will using a dish-washing liquid on vehicles trim surfaces...
such as those listed above (but not all inclusive)...
prove to be detrimental to said trim surfaces' integrity/life-cycle?
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
The MSDS for the particular Ivory I use:
http://www.pg.com/content/pdf/01_about_pg/msds/fabric_and_homecare/dishwashing_products/Ivory.pdf
-Contains: Biodegradable anionic surfactants (proprietary…:dunno
-Has no phosphates
-pH (10% solution): 9
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks in advance for any input you may wish to provide.
Bob
Wheelzntoys
New member
- Dec 18, 2011
- 573
- 0
Coatings is a different game, that is why I have Grechniq Panel Wipe.
Eraser left my wax applicator pad same color as Eraser, I read this has happened another person. Maybe user error?
Wax: nothing like KAIO or Prima Amigo...paint cleaners.
Polish: Eraser
Synergy products: easy, no need to wipe M205 (only to check progress) if using Meg's Ult. Wax and same for Optimum polishes and their LSP, keep it within the family.
Dawn soap: doesn't it have something to make it sheet water off the dishes? Maybe good for a not well maintained vehicle and time to give it a good clean and start with clean slate.
Eraser left my wax applicator pad same color as Eraser, I read this has happened another person. Maybe user error?
Wax: nothing like KAIO or Prima Amigo...paint cleaners.
Polish: Eraser
Synergy products: easy, no need to wipe M205 (only to check progress) if using Meg's Ult. Wax and same for Optimum polishes and their LSP, keep it within the family.
Dawn soap: doesn't it have something to make it sheet water off the dishes? Maybe good for a not well maintained vehicle and time to give it a good clean and start with clean slate.
Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
- 51,004
- 7
Whether you need to chemically strip a surface after using Menzerna or any paint polish is determined by the directions of the LSP you're using.
The word fillers means different things to different people including the manufacturer.
Keep in mind the entire point of polishing paint is to create beauty. Correct?
A polish company could use ONLY water for a lubricant but historically, a better lubricant to cushion and buffer the abrading action of the abrasives has been some type of oil. A really bad analogy would be your car's engine. You don't use water for a lubricant you use motor oil.
Here's the point, "YOU" want to create beauty when you machine polish your car's paint so to help "YOU" reach your goal compound and polish manufacturers use some type of lubricating oil in their compound and polish formulas.
These oils can remain on the surface after wiping off the residue and act to make the paint look clear and glossy while at the same time "possibly" masking defects still remaining or defects instilled by the abrasive technology.
And here's the point, some people in our online detailing discussion world will call these lubricating oils fillers. While they may fill, do you think that maybe the reason the compound and polish manufacture used them in their products was to help "YOU" create beauty by buffering the abrasive action of the abrasives?
Just throwing that out there, not directed at anyone but I've been involved with more discussions on fillers in my lifetime than I care for. :laughing:
Bigger point being, any quality compound, polish, pre-wax cleaner, paint cleaner, glaze, and even cleaner/wax is likely going to includes some type of "substance" that lubricates the surface.
If the product you're going to apply as your LSP demands a chemically stripped surface in order for their protection ingredients to properly bond or stick to the surface, then after using ANYONE'S abrading or cleaning product, you're going to need to somehow clean or strip the surface.
Make sense?
Klasse AIO is a cleaner/wax or more specifically a cleaner/sealant. (Same idea). It's leaving behind it's own layer of "protection ingredients" on the surface and likely has some type of ingredient that lubricates the surface as the product is being worked against it.
Keep in mind, if the manufacturer of a product doesn't state the surface has to be chemically stripped before using "their" protection product then go with it.
I like Panel Wipe as far as chemical strippers go...
Probably the dye in the product staining the "cloth" or "foam" used to make your applicator. Modern clear coat paints, especially when brand new are very impermeable, or non-porous. I would not be worried about dying my clear coat blue especially since you're basically wiping it on and wiping it off. Keep in mind also the MICROfiber as in miniaturized fibers that make of a microfiber towel have the ability to both absorb and adsorb and do a really good job of removing "substances" off a surface. (that's the idea and one of the key benefits over other larger size fiber cloths).
In my how-to book and on forums for years I call this a,
Synergistic Chemical Compatibility
I think that's Cascade for dishwashers? I remember the ad and asked a chemist how a product like this would work and he said instead of the soap and water elements leaving spots on your glasses and dishes it leaves an entire coating or and entire all-covering spot. (This was years ago I asked this question)
:laughing:
The word fillers means different things to different people including the manufacturer.
Keep in mind the entire point of polishing paint is to create beauty. Correct?
A polish company could use ONLY water for a lubricant but historically, a better lubricant to cushion and buffer the abrading action of the abrasives has been some type of oil. A really bad analogy would be your car's engine. You don't use water for a lubricant you use motor oil.
Here's the point, "YOU" want to create beauty when you machine polish your car's paint so to help "YOU" reach your goal compound and polish manufacturers use some type of lubricating oil in their compound and polish formulas.
These oils can remain on the surface after wiping off the residue and act to make the paint look clear and glossy while at the same time "possibly" masking defects still remaining or defects instilled by the abrasive technology.
And here's the point, some people in our online detailing discussion world will call these lubricating oils fillers. While they may fill, do you think that maybe the reason the compound and polish manufacture used them in their products was to help "YOU" create beauty by buffering the abrasive action of the abrasives?
Just throwing that out there, not directed at anyone but I've been involved with more discussions on fillers in my lifetime than I care for. :laughing:
Bigger point being, any quality compound, polish, pre-wax cleaner, paint cleaner, glaze, and even cleaner/wax is likely going to includes some type of "substance" that lubricates the surface.
If the product you're going to apply as your LSP demands a chemically stripped surface in order for their protection ingredients to properly bond or stick to the surface, then after using ANYONE'S abrading or cleaning product, you're going to need to somehow clean or strip the surface.
Make sense?
Klasse AIO is a cleaner/wax or more specifically a cleaner/sealant. (Same idea). It's leaving behind it's own layer of "protection ingredients" on the surface and likely has some type of ingredient that lubricates the surface as the product is being worked against it.
Keep in mind, if the manufacturer of a product doesn't state the surface has to be chemically stripped before using "their" protection product then go with it.
I like Panel Wipe as far as chemical strippers go...
Probably the dye in the product staining the "cloth" or "foam" used to make your applicator. Modern clear coat paints, especially when brand new are very impermeable, or non-porous. I would not be worried about dying my clear coat blue especially since you're basically wiping it on and wiping it off. Keep in mind also the MICROfiber as in miniaturized fibers that make of a microfiber towel have the ability to both absorb and adsorb and do a really good job of removing "substances" off a surface. (that's the idea and one of the key benefits over other larger size fiber cloths).
In my how-to book and on forums for years I call this a,
Synergistic Chemical Compatibility
I think that's Cascade for dishwashers? I remember the ad and asked a chemist how a product like this would work and he said instead of the soap and water elements leaving spots on your glasses and dishes it leaves an entire coating or and entire all-covering spot. (This was years ago I asked this question)
:laughing:
addysdaddy
New member
- Jun 13, 2012
- 980
- 0
Hey Mike, if I used KAIO to get the paint really clean and then followed with one of these chemical strippers such as Grechniq Panel Wipe or Menzerna Top Inspection, am I confident that oils & sealant have now been removed? I guess it comes down to trusting the product but I thought I would ask your opinion and if there's a way to "check" that the surface has been primed thoroughly.
Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
- 51,004
- 7
Paint that has nothing on it at all "after" it's likely also been clayed, compounded and polished or "something" has been rubbed over it to remove whatever it is you're trying to remove before applying your LSP will tend to make water lay flat. As in water won't bead up.
Surface tension causes water to pile up on top of itself instead of spreading out, so if paint is completely stripped clean and there's nothing on it then it will tend to make water lay flat, not bead up.
Water will bead up on a brand new paint job that nothing has been done to it yet but were not talking about a brand new, out of the booth paint job a few days old, we're talking about a paint job on a car that unassumingly has just had some type of "process" performed to it and now a person is chemically stripping it to remove any and all residual substances potentially left behind by previously used products. Paint in this condition, after being completely stripped should show water laying flat on the surface.
That's a real simple visual test.
Other than that I'm not sure if there's any other "simple" way the average person could test and inspect.
:dunno:
WRAPT C5Z06
New member
- Nov 12, 2009
- 12,615
- 0
What about gtechniq panel wipe?
Where did you get this information? Dawn is supposed to be the strongest detergent anti-oil dish soap on the market. They actually use it on animals that got oil dumped on them during a spill, no BS.
If you mean by 'oil base' that it contains chemical products from oil refining, that does not make it 'oily' as brake cleaners and other chemical strippers do as well.